LVScionGal

I went and test drove a Mazda5 today. It comes in manual 4 cylinder 2.3 Lt.. which surprised me A LOT for some reason. Looks like a Matrix on steroids IMO.

Anyways I was more surprised when I saw the display one inside and all the magnetic stickers were comparing it to an xB!!! I mean give me a break!!! I admit its a NICE automobile but come on...its a MINI VAN!!! I dont care what anyone says...this is NOT a rival for an xB!!

While I was there all I could think was "RUN RUN LIKE HE!! to the nearest Scion dealer" lol I couldn't even handle the pressure...if my husband wasn't with me I think Id have one parked outside right now!!!

And the dealer was using xB to make the M5 seem GREAT! OK that really made me mad! lol

Does anyone see the comparrison? Is it just me that thinks thats stupid?

I wouldn't even think they could really even both serve the same purpose!

OH and get this....they told me all my Scion "THINGY" would be worth on trade in is the amount I owe...9000.00! UH NOPE dont think so buddy! lol

{If this should be in off topic....sorry and if talked about before my bad!}

Sciond

Mazda sux....they have poor sales and one decent car in their whole line up,,,the rest are semi Ford.....

Keitaro

The Mazda 5 is a 1-Box vechicle (xB/bB is called a 2Box). It's Toyota rival is the Toyota Isis only sold in Japan .

xBassist

And the only decent car in the line up doesn't sell.. I still see like 20 of the '04 models sitting at every mazda dealer.. RX-8 is a badass car, but yeah, it's all still ford ;P

SirScion

More true than you know^^the Tribute and the Escape=the same thing :D trust me, I work at a ford dealership. OH, and the new Fusion everyone is freaking out about, it is a mazda 6, and it is not worth all the hype AT ALL!

B3ND3R

OK, I am sick of all the Mazda5 = Scion xB comparisons. Get real.

First off, all the people who say "Mazda sucks" and "it's just a Ford" have never driven a Mazda. Let's get our facts straight once and for all.

Despite the fact that many people view the early-'90s as the high water mark for Mazda (because of the FD RX-7 and the NA Miata), the company was barely keeping its head above water. Mazda needed a corporate partner to stay solvent, and they found one in Ford.

Ford now owns 33% of Mazda. According to Japanese law, that is a controlling interest. Ironically, the tables have now been turned. If it weren't for Mazda, Ford would be in real trouble today as Mazda is profitable but Ford is not.

Mazda still does build many cars outside the Ford umbrella. The RX-8 and the new MX-5 are two prime examples, as they have no Ford family parts and are assembled in Japan. The Mazda MPV is another.

Some cars do platform share. The Mazda3 is a good example. The car was designed by Mazda and assembled in Japan. But the engines are a "Ford family" engine (designed jointly) and the Mazda3 platform underpins the new Volvo S40 as well as the new Ford Focus (which the US doesn't have, yet) and the new Mazda5.

The Mazda6 is another example. The platform was designed by Mazda, but uses a Mazda-designed-Ford-assemble engine, and final assembly is in Flat Rock, Michigan. The Mazda6 platform also underpins the new Ford Fusion/Lincoln Zephyr/Mercury Milan.

As an aside, most people are very misinformed about "platform-sharing". It doesn't mean that one car is simply rebadged as another marque. Rather, it means that some major components (typically the frame and engine) are used and adopted. Jaguar platform shares with Ford (Lincoln LS/Jaguar X), but few buyers state those cars drive the same. The new MX-5 platform-share with the RX-8; but the frame is some 12" shorter and the MX-5 does not have a rotary but rather one of the Ford-family engines.

Now that we have THAT cleared-up, lets look at Mazda's line-up

• The Mazda3 is brilliant, as was the outgoing Protege. Nothing in that class comes close.
• The Miata is the benchmark which sparked the roadster revival, and the upcoming MX-5 is getting rave reviews as well.
• The Mazda6 (and upcoming Mazdaspeed6) are 10 x 10^10 more fun to drive than any Camry/Accord/Taurus/Jetta/your boring midsize sedan here.
• The RX-8 is a love-it-or-hate-it. Most people are mad becase it's not a new RX-7, but the handling is so neutral on the car they should have called it the "Mazda Switzerland".
• The Tribute is a mechanical clone of the Escape. The interior and styling are much nicer. Also, keep in mind, that when the Escape/Tribute debuted almost 6 years ago, there was nothing like them this side of $30K. They were the only SUVs based on a car platform (the old Mazda 626). Now, everyone has jumped-on that idea.

So let's talk about the Mazda5.

The Mazda5 is what is known in Europe and Japan as a "space wagon". The class of vehicle is enormously popular over there, and the sucess of the Mazda5 in Europe is what prompted Mazda. It is based on Mazda3 architecture.

We have no space wagons in the US market. The closest comparison is the PT Cruiser, Chevrolet HHR, and to a lesser-extent the Honda Element.

The xB is not a space wagon.Drawing comparisons between the Mazda5 and the Scion xBi s ludicrous.

For starters, the Mazda5 seats 6 people. Secondly, the quality of materials and ammenities offered in the Mazda5 far surpass those in the xB. We all know you can't get an xB with leather, dual moonroofs, or even factory cruise. This is a no-brainer, considering the Mazda5's higher price point. More expensive should equal more ammenities.

Then there is the whole idea of marketing to a niche. The xB is marketing to youth, primarily single. The Mazda5 is marketing to young couples starting a family, looking for something other than a sedan but not ready for a minivan. (Just because a vehicle has sliding doors does not a minivan make it). Mazda has the MPV as a minivan.

The Mazda5 is a more functional Toyota Matrix.

And the market needs a more functional Matrix. Because, quite frankly, the Matrix sucks. It has been a sales distaster, is a horror to drive, and lacks even a modicum of real-world functionality. As such, the Matrix holds very little appeal to its target demographic (i.e., young couples starting a family).

Will it work? I dunno. It has been tried before without success (remember the Dodge Colt/Mitsubishi Expo?). But you have to give kudos to Mazda for trying to sell a vehicle the US Market needs.

Having said that, I predict most of the target audience will opt instead for a 2WD Chevy Trailblazer or Ford Exploder, despite the fact that Mazda5 is more fun to drive, has more room and function, and is better on fuel.

Oof.

xBLong

Good reading Oof. I have a1993 Mazda RX-7 (FD3S) and it still turns heads.

squirrel

Well put B3ND3R!!!!!!!

rdclark

I've owned two Mazda MPVs, and they're both great cars. The '91 has like 165,000 miles on it, and it's living with my son down in North Carolina. The '02 is our current primary vehicle for trips, camping, etc., and still gets a lot of daily miles. It's nimble, easy to maneuver in city traffic, has an extremely flexible interior, and is comfortable on long drives.

The problem with Mazda is not their vehicles, it's their marketing. I haven't seen ads for the Mazda5 yet, but obviously if they're comparing it to the xB they're just being stupid.

From what I can see, there's a niche for the 5: it's just an extended compact wagon. It's relatively inexpensive, it's not too thirsty, it's probably well put-together, and it's well equipped at its price point. It should sell well to young families for whome a regular minivan is too big, a full-size SUV is too thirsty, and a compact SUV is too small.

That's not the same niche the xB occupies, not at all. If Mazda really thinks they can siphon potential xB buyers for the 5, they're making another marketing mistake.

RichC

TxCAMOxB

As an aside, I have both a Pontiac Vibe (matrix' cousin) and the xB. The vibe is OK to drive, has a little more get up and go than the xB, and I've driven it on 12-hour trips once or twice. It's "OK". That's all. It isn't a total piece of junk, but on the other side, I'd never buy another one.

The only thing that bothers me are some of the extra features it included for about the same sticker price as my xB. Granted, I'm almost certain it didn't have to cross the ocean to get here, how much more $$$ would it have cost to include cruise control? The gimmicky AC inverter?

The engine thing too. The vibe feels like it pulls harder (130 hp/125 lb ft) despite it's size, and gets comparable fuel economy to the xB. With a 1.8l engine. That has bolt-ons to get it closer to 200 hp...

If only it wasn't so ugly.

saicow

well....I'm going to test drive one today....see fer meself....

RedMatrixXRS

first off i have to disagree on that. i own an xB and a matrix XRS. the matrix is not as big of a sales disaster as you might think. promotions for the matrix were halted to promote the line of new cars that we have. scions. how can the matrix be a horror to drive? i've had it for 2 years now and can tell you a few things. i have the 2zz-ge, which is shared with the celica gt-s, and is honestly, a "buzzy" engine. it is very functional for me. much more than you can imagine. with a factory outlet, FLAT folding rear seats and a front folding passenger seat has been very helpful. much more cargo room that a non-owner would think. i've moved so many things in my matrix that wouldn't be possible in another compact vehicle. plus i spanked a 5 who gave me crap on the freeway.

i have also had zero problem with my xrs with a total of 80k on the clock and pulling a 15.5@91 bone stock with a 2.3 60ft and still get better gas milage than a 5.



if you wanna compare specs with a matrix xrs and an xb go ahead. i have both.

www.matrixowners.com

stankubrick

I think the Mazda 5 has plenty of VIP potential

I would get one if I had use for the 6 seats. For me, it's like the next step up from the xB as far as practicality is concerned. Halfway between and xB and a mini-van. If it had better gas mileage, I'd consider getting one right now.

B3ND3R

Well, I'm glad you like your Matrix, but you are in the minority.

I spent quite a bit of time behind the wheel of a Matrix XR-S when they first came out, and I walked away very dissapointed. The handling was sub-par, the driving position and instrumentation awkward, the engine was pathetic until you got into the VVT-i (and even then it felt like it ran out of steam too quick), the plastic-coated floor in the back was useless unless you took the time to tie everything down. Basically, everything Car and Driver said above (except I drove the car way before the review came out).

Apparently, others agree. I can't find the other link, but I do recall reading that the Matrix has fallen well-short of its sales goals. Again, glad you like it, but it has been a "miss" for Toyota (just as the Echo was).

If Mazda can build a better mousetrap, more power to them. They can't do much worse.

starrwulfe

I actually looked at a 5 when I was at the autoshow earlier this year. I've also seen them VIPed out in Japan... but not as many as the Estima which is a real minivan. It's cool, and if I had use for it, I'd get one. I got a sister-in-law that works at the Ford plant in St Louis, MO-- I can use the X-plan (employee pricing) on mazdas too. But I see the xB as the right choice for me given that I'm single, and have no kids. No one has even ridden shotgun in my box in the 2 weeks I've had it except my brother, and that was just to take him to and from the airport. He has his own ride-- an '01 Focus.

Solar_XBUS

one thing that is the same are the 5 doors. The xA is probably more related

RedMatrixXRS

[quote="B3ND3R"][quote="RedMatrixXRS"]i sure love the XRS. you think the handling is sub-par? then explain how the handling is in the xB? instrumentation is awkward? what about in our xB's? first off, if you think the 2zz is pathetic, than i would like to know what you think about out 1.5's. the 2zz makes power up to 7k rpm. tell that to a 2zz owner whether it's an XRS, GT-S or lotus owner. the rear cargo area? i own the xB also.....there's more cargo rom in the matrix.

Jamo

That would be us. We LOVE the xB, but it's impossible to get 2 carseats on the "60" portion of the rear seat and keep the "40" portion folded down all the time so there's room for strollers, diaper bags, and whatnot (seeing as how there's minimal cargo room behind the rear seats with them upright). I've got a wife and 2 young kids (3 yrs. and 5 mos. old). As much as I love the xB, I'm just having a hard time imagining trying to "live with it" on a daily basis. The Mazda5 seems much more practical for my family's needs, as much as I hate to say it. It seats 6, so we can even take my parents on trips with us - something impossible for us to do with the xB. The sliding doors mean you don't have to fight a door while trying to buckle your kids into car seats, and it still carries a lot of cargo. It also has side curtain airbags, 4 wheel disc brakes, and a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty (none of which have been mentioned yet).

5 years ago, before I was married and had kids, I would've been all over a xB. Now that I have a family, I have 3 other people I have to look after and protect and make comfortable. The Mazda5 just makes more sense (for us) in this case.


Well, they may have just lured me over to their side, and it was done without them advertising directly to me and through a xB forum!.

tacomatrd

Gee they should pay you to drive off the lot with the mazda aka Ford american car! If you want a pure japanies car then scion fits the bill. Now my first choice is a Real hand crafted german car but with my money aint gonna happen.

LVScionGal

Thanks for all the info guys!!

Dont get me wrong I LOVE my xB!! Its just that I also think the M5 is a beautiful automobile, and it drives like a dream! Or maybe that is compared to an xB it does! lol

Mazda itself is comparing the M5 to the xB not me. Its all over the stickers discribing the car. I just didn't get that.

Heres from inside the M5 book itself:

and I quote:"Instead, by ingeniously thinking outside the box, mazda designers avoided creating one."

One turn off right now is the price for me bc Im trying to pay cash and another is the 21 miles per gallon city! lol Not with these gas prices!

I just think it could be really nice fixed up!!

Thanks so much for all of your input!


OHHH I also LOVED the fact that the windows on the sliding doors ROLL DOWN!!! That is cool!