Skyraider

Pyro, thanks for the outline. My question is this: How thick are three layers going to be? I'd hate to have my knees in the chin! And would those three layers require trimming of the interior pieces to look presentable?

Gordon

pyroman131

It'll be a tight fit. Unlike conventional misconceptions with sound deadening, you don't have to apply layer after layer of CLD tiles, as this only stops vibration and resonance in the metal by adding mass. The trim panels will fit over the sound deadening sandwich I had described earlier, but it'll be a tight fit. As for the door panels, trunk, firewall, etc., you should be free to apply layers at your own discretion in order to meet the needs of the vehicle.

I will be undertaking this project in the summer time, as a year ago, I had tried to create my own cheapo sound deadening project, which failed. If I did it right the first time, I wouldn't be scheduled to attempt it again this summer.

pyroman131

To that extent, for added noise control and more ride comfort, I will be wrapping my hard plastic panels with vinyl or leather. I hope this will reduce any other rattling or creaking that is present in the car.

Carbuldr

Since I first started this thread I have spent a great deal of time researching the XB noise issue. As some of you pointed out the tires are the biggest factor. I will be buying a 2012 XB soon and have decided to try something novel (in this day and age) to address the noise issue.

As I recall the past 40 years of building cars, back in the days of 14" & 15" diameter wheels road noise was not an issue. In those days radial tire side walls were tall and had a slight bulge in the side wall which gave a cushy, smooth, and quiet ride. The current trend toward more wheel diameter and low profile tires helps with handling but amplifies road noise and make for a harsh ride.

So being old schooled I am going to go the opposite direction with the wheels and tires. When I leave the dealers lot I am going straight to Discount tire and have the stock 205/55/16 tires and wheels replaced with 15" custom wheels and 215/60/15 Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires. These tires are 1/4" taller overall and 3/8" wider than the originals but have a much taller side wall. Between the taller side wall and premium Michelin tires I am hoping this will result in a drastic reduction of road noise. If this is'nt enough I'll go the sound deadener route as others have done.

On a side note the custom 15" Discount Tire MB wheels are only $70.00 each and the 215/60/15 tires are $111.00 each compared to $144.00 each to just replace the original 205/55/16 Goodyear RSA tires with Michelins 16"ers. The difference in tire costs alone will cover the price of 2 of the 4 new 15" wheels. And to boot Discount will give $200 credit for the Goodyears on trade. Funny thing was when I called the store manager he said he had just purchased a 2011 XB and was and was considering the same approach to XB noise problem.

I will post my experiences if anyone is interested.

Carbuldr

xbdition

IMHO, I don't know if all that is necessary. I mean, tire noise is typically a result of tread pattern and compound, and I don't believe you'd hear a difference just going to a smaller size. Quietest tire I ever used was a bridgestone model I forget the name of that was 18" in diameter. You could just keep your 16's and put Michelins on there.

Aside from the looks of a smaller wheel and fatter tire, are you sure the setup you are going with is going to fit?

pyroman131

Let me save you the trouble of posting your experience later: 15" wheels will NOT clear the caliper. Since you are old school, you don't seem like the kind of guy who would be comfortable taking a power tool to your stock OEM calipers and grinding them down so that you can stick 15" wheels on your xB. You might be able to run a 0 offset on your rears, but there's no guarantee it'll fit. 16" should be the smallest you go.

I used to drive classics when I first started driving (had a 1979 Pontiac Trans-Am and then a 78 Pontiac Firebird) and I know what you mean about those bulging tires and ride comfort. But if you roll on 205/60/16, that should yield a little more comfort for you. New cars aren't made like old cars. They're going to start creaking and rattling a lot earlier than old cars do.

jthistle

I have been looking into adding SDS sound proofing to my car. I have been searching for a local supplier for the mass loaded vinyl. MLV is so heavy that when you but it online often shipping is ~75% of what you are paying for the product. I haven't found any place in Illinois that sells it, it looks like I will have to drive to Indianapolis or pay shipping. I have come across suppliers in the following places, if one these places is local to you check them out and save some money. I'm sure there are more out there. The best prices are ~$1.15/sqft.
NY: http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Mass-...l-1-Pound.html
VA: http://www.acousticsfirst.com/blocka...nd-barrier.htm
CA:http://shop3.mailordercentral.com/su...r=09-00005-48R
CA: http://www.soundaway.com/mass_loaded...02_p/11002.htm
NV: http://www.soundrite-acoustics.com/M...ded-Vinyl.aspx
MN: http://www.asistorefront.com/p-231-m...e-barrier.aspx

For CCF I am probably going to but from this place, http://www.closedcellfoams.com/gymnasticrubber.html, when the thinner stuff is back in stock because they have free shipping and good prices.

pyroman131

^ Yikes! That's some expensive shipping! Maybe if you are buying a full solution (deadener, closed cell foam, and mass-loaded vinyl), the seller can give you a deal to save more on shipping! I'm all the way out in Florida, so the closest supplier would be Virginia! I'm sure that calculating shipping costs versus gas prices would be the most viable solution. Not to mention, the road trip would be awesome!

To clarify, when jthistle says SDS sound proofing, he is referring to Sound Deadener Showdown (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com).


One thing that I like about the BlockAid Vinyl (from Acoustics First in the Virginia hyperlink above) is that it is constructed without lead fillers, which have toxicity issues. I'm not sure what SDS uses for their MLV, but I suspect that lead is introduced slightly in order to improve performance. This might be a question to direct to Don at SDS.

jthistle

Since alot of the MLV places are claiming their MLV is good for residential sound proofing I would suspect it would have to meet residential lead standards.

jthistle

This place is in Tampa but they don't list prices. http://www.acoustiblok.com/

jthistle

I got 100 sqft of MLV. Since I could not get it locally I purchased it from ebay through Trademarksound. This was the best price after shipping I could find. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...E:L:OU:US:1123
For the foam I went with neoprene from Foam Factory. After looking at several threads at DIYMobileAudio I came to understand that the foam is simply a layer to separate the MLV from the metal and does not have the density to effect any frequency low enough for me to hear at the 1/8 or 1/4" thickness. The neoprene like the PVC Nitrile meets the fire retardant vehicle safety standard FMVSS-302 so I feel placing it in my car will be fine. The only difference is it can absorb more water but I figure if I replace the waterproofing plastic after adding the CLD tiles I should be fine.

xb2owner

I recently test drove a 2011 Nissan Altima w/V6. It was a bit louder than my 2009 xB! The tire humm was horrible so I'm agreeing tires play a major role. If you're thinking about putting in sound deadner and your tires are getting to the point where they need replaced, replace the tires that have good online rating by owners only! Pay no mind to Consumer Reports unless its the owner rating section.

Carbuldr

Thanks for all the advise offered. After reviewing all my options and as some of you pointed out that 15" wheels would not clear the calipers on an XB, I chose to stick with the OE SIZE 205/55/16 tires but replace them with Michelins..

I purchased the new 2012 XB and drove straight to Discount tire and had them install 4 Michelin Primacy MXV4 205/55/16 tires. My wife has a 2012 Kia Sportage and recently I had been paying close attention to the amount of road noise in it for a comparison to the new XB. After driving the Kia on many different roads it is apparent that the pavement is the main culprit for noise with tires 2nd and insulation 3rd.

The larger the gravel size in the asphalt the louder the noise was inside her car. Some of the roads and freeways I drove on were silky smooth and quiet while others( with the larger gravel size) were extremely noisy. Kia has been pointing out that they had increased the sound deadener in the new 2012 Sportage for a quieter ride so it gave me a good comparison to go by.

I have about 300 miles on the new XB and have driven it on the same roads as the Kia. To my surprise the XB is much smoother and quieter inside than the Kia. I can certainly hear some noise on the roads with the rough payment but still much better than the Kia and well with in reason. My wife even commented about the difference and asked about installing Michelins on her car, LOL. I am very pleased with everything about the XB and don't plan to make any other changes.

I also wanted to mention the Discount tire guys were excellent and gave me a $200 credit toward the new Michelins. The manager also said from his personal experience their was no better tire on the market. I would have to agree.

Carbuldr

pyroman131

^ That's awesome news to hear! Tires are a key part of the suspension.

If you plan on equalizing your ride even further from road harshness, insulation is the next thing to tackle, since our boxes come ill-equipped with this feature that other car-makers are so endowed with.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I'd sure like to know what other <$20k cars you guys are comparing your XBs to that make the XB seem noisy and rough riding. Car & Driver called the 2008 XB "quiet and smooth riding" which it is, compared to it's competition.

According to Car & Driver interior sound level testing, the 2008 XB is quieter inside than a 2012 Kia Soul and much quieter than a 2010 Nissan Cube at 70mph and WOT.

pyroman131

My benchmark would be a stock equipped 2012 Toyota Corolla and a 2009 Hyundai Sonata which both are much quieter than my box!

But then again...

I'm on Tanabe NF210s, 18" alloy wheels wrapped in 225/40/18 Kumho Ecsta tires, and at 80,000 miles. My car creaks and rattles and road noise always intrudes very loudly. The ride has become so unbearable that I'm going to basically revert my springs to stock and switch to 16" wheels with beefy tires. Might make this change at the end of the year.

Plus, everything works out perfectly because I got a good deal on a used Five Axis kit I'll paint and mount by the year's end. I'd like to be higher if I'm driving with an expensive lip kit.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Would it surprise you to learn that according to actual sound level measurements conducted by Car & Driver, that a stock 2008 XB is actually quieter than a 2009 Corolla and a 2012 Sonata? So much for subjective impressions comparing modified apples to stock oranges...

FYI, C&D's test results for the 2008 XB were as follows:

Idle: 38db
70mph: 69db
WOT: 74db

Now you can use those figures to compare to other cars with some semblance of accuracy. If you want to see actual sound level results, just find a road test of any car tested by C&D and download the "test sheet" pdf.

Here is a link to the 2008 XB test sheet:

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...b-08-rt-ts.pdf


...

xb2owner

How beefy on these tires can we get? I'm definately not into 18's giving my last ride was an 09' GTi and thats why I wanna keep 16's on the xB. Just gotta find a decent set of 16" rims now.

jthistle

Car and Drivers test sheets are flawed. I checked the test sheet for my fathers G35x and according the test sheet the sound is almost identical to the xB within 1dB which is just not true. The G35 is considerably more quiet than my xB.

Skyraider

Folks, this is an 18K car. It is not going to be as quiet and smooth riding as a 1984 Caddilac! The car is what it is. If Toyota added 3k worth of soundproofing, they would be out of the target range and it would go the way of the Edsel!

Gordon