Should have done something more original than hardware store round reflectors.

A slim across the bumper reflector? A SCION lettered relector centerd in the bumper.

They seem to want to add comfort/convience features that folks my age (40+) look for in a car. Scion should be adding edgey features not found on other Toyotas, after all do we see IS-F exhausts on anything else?

Where are the funky LED lights? Where are the wild interior fabrics? Where are the bright metallic paints? Where is the cool advertising?

Mazda has a flag??? Where's our flag to unit under? Missed a marketing opportunity there.

 

ok so i finally took more time to checkout the refreshed Xb and i gotta say its actually not bad. its kinda growing on me.

 

support it guys. comon. "scion is a sinking ship..."??? whats that? lets let the people at scion keep their jobs. letum see our criticism but dont say the company is a sinking ship. they know they deal with rebellious older folks and ricer kids. do you really want them out of business? no. i wish they could make the tc one of the top safest cars in the us for years to come. my friends. lets just enjoy and keep being consumers.

 

That attitude is exactly what made GM fall from dominance. Decades of terrible products, yet people supported them blindly for the sake of keeping the company afloat. As soon as they (and Ford too) started dying and their pocketbooks started shrinking, they started to rebound. The current and upcoming product offerings from both are nothing short of impressive and competitive.

 

Mazda's flag campaign is "United by Sameness", one banner, under Mazda, and even all of their cars carry the same design theme. Scion's marketing campaign is "United by Individuality", so that doesn't really fit what they're trying to do. The xA looked nothing like the xB looked nothing like the tC, and that is intentional.

I agree, we shouldn't be saying "Scion is a sinking ship", rather, we should be saying Scion, this is what we're not happy with, please improve on it. I'm an xB1 owner, and the xB2 came about because of mine and other's critiques. We wanted more power, we wanted more room. However, "most" liked the look of the xB1, so I'm not sure where the push to make it round came from. Why do I bring this up? Just saying, be very careful when you make improvement suggestions, i.e. be careful what you wish for.

What we should be doing is saying:
- where is my 3 year refresh cycle
- where is my factory turbo option
- where is my Genesis competitor
- where is my Soul, Cube competitor
- why are you falling behind the competition in terms of value / $$? ABS, trac, glass roofs, power windows, etc. were nice to have in the base model in 2004, but now they all come standard in a Kia. Scion, we need more value.

 

I don't hate it but I don't love it. I especially love the interior upgrades, most of all the new armrest... Wonder if we can get that to work on the 2008-2010 models...

As far as the outside, the back end is fine but the front I am not so sure about. Hard to say if I think it looks cool or silly.

I do agree they should have placed the new 2.5L Camry engine in it though. That would of been a nice touch.

 

Eddie, I agree with most of what you say, except the value part.
I'm not thrilled with the designs of the last few years, but Scion remains a good value.

Also, I was never a fan of dummy scoops (xB2). I like a design that has flow to it. The xA flowed (although WAAAY too tall ride height), the xB1 was boxy, and it worked, the tC replaced the Celica. It had big shoes to fill, and I thought it did a decent job.

I think the xD & xB2 went to the Chrysler school of design with the high belt lines to look like they have a low roofline. There needs to be a good-looking Japanese hatchback, we Americans need to not be afraid of station wagons. I'd LOVE to see a great-looking small Japanese longroof(wagon). Personal opinion: I think the xB2 is a bit too big. The xD doesn't flow. It has dissimilar shapes stuck together & I think that's the style they went with. I think it needs a change. The iQ looks like a miniature xD... It has potential as the only useable, 4 seat minicar in the States...

 

Wasn't saying Scion was a bad buy for the value, just that the competition has caught up. Scion needs to stay ahead of the pack. Easiest comparison is the tC to the Kia Forte Koup:

- HP (171 Kia, 161 tC)
- MPG (34/25 Kia, 27/20 tC)
- Safety (Font, side airbags, abs, tire pressure monitor) Both
- Convenience (Power windows, power mirrors,power locks, keyless entry) Both
- Power sunroof (optional Kia, Standard tC)
- Price ($16.5k Kia, $17.1k tC)

So for an extra $600, you get a sunroof, leather steering wheel, and 18 ft-lbs more torque but with an extra 200 lbs of curb weight. Scion has some nice aftermarket support that the Koup doesn't, and the reliability numbers aren't out yet to compare, though historically Toyota fares much better. However, after personally doing two motor replacements on friend's tC's with only minor mods on them, I wonder about that too.

Bottom line is that the level of competition is rising while Scion is standing still. They will be passed up very soon unless they do something, and the 2011 xB is not going to get it done. I have high hopes for the iQ but with them pricing it over $12k most people will buy a bigger car for less, i.e. Ford Fiesta, Chrysler / Fiat 500, Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, Honda Fit, etc.

Hopefully the new tC answers the mail.

 

For what it's worth, I like the slight redesign. It makes it seem more symmetrical and it's more appealing to me... am I going to sell my 1st gen to buy this? No, but it's not bad for what it is.

I do really dislike how the front emblem is cut into the bumper like that though... makes it very difficult to do anything with it.

 

being in Japan last week, I'll say this....

I know why the QNC bB was not our NCP xB replacement. I still believe the Rumion should have been the the new xB2 and offer two motor options. the 1.8 and 2.4( versus Japans 1.5 and 1.. the xD should have looked like the JDM ZSP Ist( looks wwaayy better than the xD). There really isn't anything new in Japan to speak of. this american tale of sticky gas pedals has screwed them up bad. But maybe the Auris or Blade would have been a good pick for a hot hatch. Rumion has better lines and would have offered that JDM appeal alot of us like with our xB1's. iQ is a big gamble. I didn't see that many driving around. maybe 2 or 3. damn NCP Ist's are everywhere. more so than the bB there.

and yea, the QNC bB didn't fit the replacment bill. why you ask? it's smaller than our xB1. I almost don't like it after seeing it in person. it's that goofy looking.

but car companies in general don;t offer all their cool models cuz why? Toyota afriad they won't sell Sienna's if they have a Noah/Voxy too? there's a market for everyone. Honda Stream? I'd so drive a RS-Z. but why not offer it? afriad they won't sell CR-V's? dumb.

p.s. Scion DID listen to us. we got a bigger xA, we got a bigger xB and we'll have a bigger tC.

 

In the beginning, back in 2005, I remember most owners saying about their cars:
xA, "I love it because it's small and gets good gas mileage." (gas was insanely expensive then, if you remember)
xB, "I love it because it's so huge inside."
tC,"It looks good and the interior is awesome, plus love the glass roof."

I don't think I EVER EVER EVER, in any of the Scion meets in northern and southern California EVER met an xB1 owner who said his xB1 was too small. Ever. Ever ever ever.

Same goes for the tC. It's possible a couple strange people may say that, but the tC is freakishly huge for a 2-door. If anything, the rear seat is too far back, making it difficult to climb into the back seat, but that's a good thing since it means more rear legroom.

The xA, I could understand. But most people would have bought the xB if they were concerned about room, since the xB1 was freakishly roomy.

 

Basically take any Honda or Toyota van or wagon in Asia and compare it our version and theirs looks much better.
Americans are afraid to be seen in something out of the ordinary it seems.

 

I differ a tad here. The xB is pretty similar to the bB. As are other cars, not many, but some. I know a big issue is the US' safety standards (def not the only issue). Manufacturers need to beef up cars to meet the regulations here.

 

xB's have not looked like xB's since 2006. And that is the truth. xB2 was the dumbest idea ever. I knew they screwed up back in Miami when they showed it to a select few people. I was there and threw up in my mouth when they pulled the curtain up...

 

A little tidbit I learned while selling car audio products a (long) while back: Japan puts out a LOT of good looking stuff that we never get! They also put out a LOT of really strange looking stuff too. The Japanese also have a love for things that scream syrupy cute. Hello Kitty for example (need I say more?).

Japanese design decisions are not made from the bottom up (consumer research, focus groups, etc.) but from the top down (management decides what's good for us). Hence the sometimes strange combination of odd body exteriors with great interiors. Or the other way around. At least Scion isn't offering a **** carpet dash accessory like the Nissan Cube (and that idea came from it's US corporate office!). In the US, we determine what looks good. In Japan, because of their societal great respect for those in authority (ie, the managers and CEOs), they accept whatever they are given. Granted, it's over simplified, but essentially true.

With nearly all the car companies adding more features as standard that were once options, it's getting harder and harder to maintain that balance of upgraded features, unique or mundane, with what the consumer is willing pay. Add something here, take away something there. We're wanting more, but many times, not willing to pay for it. Power windows used to be a luxury item, now it's standard. Did the price of the mechanism drop that drastically that even the entry level car has it a standard? Or are they taking something else out to "pay" for it without changing the sticker price? "Value" is a very tricky thing in products: everyone has a different idea on what it is.

 

For power windows, power locks, etc I would guess the price went down pretty quick. new technology is always expensive, but when it ramps up to selling millions of units, the price per unit drops significantly. Still trying to figure out why my xB1 gets stuck with rear drum brakes though, they are a royal pain to change shoes on.

 

Who Cares

 

There is truth to this statement. But also consider that the tC has not changed yet all these models are brand new for 2009/2010. They are lagging behind. They mimic'd the feature set of Scion.

The Kia Forte Koup, is a slick car, no doubt about it. But consider other cars like it: The Mazda 3 for example also ramped up its specifications in its latest refresh for 2010. The Scion model still came first.

The tC (and xB) were ahead of their times in terms of a lot of features and designs. tC and xB2 had projector headlamps in this price class first. Sure the other models have them NOW, but not back THEN.

If the tC or xB2 refresh come with HID's standard or something, that'll be yet ANOTHER way they can push the value envelope.

I still stand behind Scion as a brand, but yes, I think they need to work on refreshes more often. They said three years and if you consider the other models and the refreshes done, they've actually sorta met that.

xA was replaced with the D, the tC got its refresh in 2008, xB was totally redesigned in 2007.

I'm with the brand, but still waiting to see what the new tC brings to see if I am wholeheartedly behind it.

Hopefully, they can force the rest of the models they compete with (soul, fit, cube, koup, 3, Civic) to play catch up once more.

 

The forte is still behind the tC price for price, period. Even the $20,000 sx version is over a full second slower to 60mph (where 90% of drivers see the difference) and almost a second slower in 1/4 mile. It is a cool looking little car, but still nothing that just smashes the competition.

As a matter fact, for the same price, it is still hard to find a cars that match or better the tC for what you get.. A lot have closed the gap, so it would be nice for the tC to step it up a notch.. but I have still been impressed when I go out and try to compare what you get for the price.

But in the end they are selling cars hand over fist. So people can say what you want, they are doing the RIGHT thing for the brand. Being one of the top selling cars out there, Toyota knows a tad more about the markets and the designs that sell than most car enthusiasts do ;) Again, you all assume everyone that buys a scion is an enthusiast, which is far from true. I see WAY more people that never do a thing to their scion and just use it for an a to b car.

And not selling a car in a market so as not to compete with the other popular cars you sell is not dumb... it is very smart if you are the corp. Why do you think the GNX went out of production back in the late 80's? They didnt want a cheap family car that was approaching or exceeding what the vette of the day could do. You dont build a car that seriously competes with your top sellers. That is just stupid.

Again, we all (including myself) would like to see changes, but that is from our point of view. Overall, Toyota is going to do what makes them the most money.. which has worked pretty well for them obviously. If 90% of the market were enthusiasts wanting to customize their car, then their decisions would be different.. but that is not the case. And the fact that a non-si version civic, which is not so fast or anything out of the ordinary to look at, still holds most of the econobox market... because most people dont care about 1/4 mile times, mod-ability, etc.

 

exactly what i was think,, looks like the front end people are paying to make their cars look like this,, halo headlights people are putting on... tails that look similar to the longo lights to me.. the telescoping steering wheel everyone has been whining about,,, along with a better armrest again been whining about.. a way better light display with the clock and temp on the right out in the open, with the other stuff still there on the left...

I DO AGREE THE CLOTH IS ___!! .... but overall I think its way nicer than what we got now... im gonna get one!!!

I hope it has the new 4cyl and trans in it from the 2011 camry!! duel vvti , way more power and 5spd auto..better fuel econ,,,, would be way better,,