I do have to hand it to you guys for taking this all in stride...I wrote that after 29 hours of uninterrupted sleep deprivation, and this morning when I thought about it I was like "OH no, I'm gonna get torn apart." so thanks

THIS, however, I have to dispute. That's the entire reason for the brand's existence: to bring in younger buyers. That's not even remotely up for debate. Toyota has come out and said it.

You do bring up a good point about the xB1, of course: we had our share of 60-and-up drivers. However, if that was a problem (and it was, based on the reason for the brand), the xB2 sure as hell wasn't the solution. I bet if you run the numbers on how many B1 and B2 owners are, say, having regular prostate exams......well, no need to beat a dead horse. (SPEAKING of being old, btw...I cannot freaking believe someone actually used the "I remember when I knew everything" line, btw. Hi, I have a degree in marketing, thanks...and I'm 25, not 15. JEEZ. Moving on!)

Anyway, I've seen about a dozen B2's rolling around and have yet to see a driver that could POSSIBLY have been under fifty. I've even waved (can't accuse me of not being neighborly!) and gotten nary a look of recognition. Frankly, it's nice to see a few twenty-somethings weighing in here - I was beginning to lose hope. Regardless, if I'm Toyota, and I'm trying to get young people to buy my car, I'll take 50%-over-seventy over 5%-under-30 any day.

And let me reiterate: the fact that every B2 on the road is one fewer SUV (or even minivan) is a huge celebration. It's still a phenomenal vehicle, and I'm sincerely happy for each and every one of you who managed to get ahold of one. Because as the 2 twenty-somethings pointed out, the car is so awesome it's practically unfair. But they need to just call it what it is: a Toyota station wagon. They're trashing their own brand here.

Tomas, I know what you mean: I'm really trying to get my mom to buy an xB2. I don't need to beat a dead horse here on the age thing, but you can check my age and do the math on that one.

And once again, yeah, there's a lot of bitterness here, since our entire vehicle class was basically discontinued for no apparent reason ("WE LISTENED TO THE PUBLIC!" they told us ), so I appreciate that ALL of you on this board are willing to be civil and polite, because I know you're putting up with a lot of mudslinging (and annoying postings of HHR pictures). So, thank you from the Gen 1 crowd, and we look forward to joining up with you to diss the Gen 3's, whatever the heck they're going to be. Cheers!

 

I realize their intent in creating the Scion brand. You're right. There is no debate to be had there. The thing is, they didn't just attract young buyers. They completely missed the possibility that more than just gen-y people would love to own something different. They attracted a *lot* of older drivers as well.

Let's face it. Toyota's styling has become bland and vanillafied. Maybe Toyota should do some research as to why Scion *is* appealing to so many people outside the intended target demographic.

Scion also brings a lot to the table for people of any age who want to own a car (and not have the car own them). They provide great value and interesting style for a price that's tough to beat.

What vehicle in Toyota's lineup matches the feature list of the xB for it's price? Nothing, and I'd hate to see what Toyota would do to the xB in order to "harmonize" the styling with the rest of their lineup.

 

The current xB isn't THAT far off from some of the existing Toyota models... Here are a couple...





The NGxB could easily slip into the Toyota line-up here as a hot wagon version of one of their sedans. Just needs to be a little softer and cushier.

An the xB3 we are all going to rail against? You haven't see the artists conception of that yet?



Again, the xB2 is a good design - as a Toyota.

Tom

 

I like the Probox/Succeed. At least from a design standpoint. (I like tall wagons.) But those are made by Daihatsu right? Is the quality as good as a (regular) Toyota?

 

i think the 2nd gen stayed true to the concept car which i liked alot .
the only complaints i had with the first gen was body roll and lack of hp.
in the 2nd gen those items where addressed so i am very pleased with it .
as for this article , i think the writer doesn't grasp the scion vibe. i believe at 16,000 it is an ideal car for a younger consumer. there are a hand full of air bags and a traction control system that you don't usually find in a car at this price range which makes mom and dad happy! as far as the differences in appearances between the 1st and 2nd gen , i think that it looks like an XB . what is a 2nd gen xb suppossed to look like ? i challenge anyone to come up with a drawing of what the 2nd gen should have looked like.
i don't mind seeing older people in the new xb . they contribute to the scion brand being around for a while and i know that there nobody on this forum that complain about that !!
by the way , how could you compare a chevy to a toyota
chevy has been needing help in there design department since the 70's

 

Yes and no...

They are built in factories owned by Daihatsu (which is partly owned by Toyota) just like a half dozen Toyota models are - including the current bB.

As far as that goes, the xB2 isn't made in a Toyota factory. :D

Toyotas made in ANY plant are made to Toyota designs and specs, and must meet Toyota quality requirements before they are allowed out the door.

In other words, they ARE regular Toyotas.

Tom

P.S. Chevy (GM) HAS been getting help in their design department... from Toyota.

 

I considered responding with about a long post explaining why I thought you were full of it, but I did not have the time before work this morning. In the end you sounded like a pompous 17 year old so I responded to that with small attempt at humor. You seem to be of the short sighted opinion that only people under a certain age can possibly be (or know what is) cool. Neither chronological age nor a degree are an indication of maturity. Frankly, they are no indication of cool either. Sorry.

TSLRich is who commented about the "cool" issue. He appears to be 28 and right in the mighty "target demographic" group with you. One guy that is 37 and one that is 30 responds to the cool comment by TSLRich and you come in here and say "it's kind of funny to watch a bunch of 50-year-olds argue about what 16-25-year-olds think is cool. "
Nice reading comprehension. Get some sleep.

As to the content of the article, you seem to turn a blind eye to the significant amount of wrong and stupid information in the article.
I guess you are OK with the author saying your almighty xB1 is really a Daihatsu.
What exactly was the value of the whole Daihatsu failure in the US bit? There isn't and never has been a Scion built by Daihatsu so far. It was just his failed attempt at comedy.
I guess the fact that he has clearly doesn't even know what a gen2 bB is and is writing a "professional automotive journalism piece" about Toyota's and Scion's is right on target in your opinion.

It's OK with me if you prefer the xB1.
It's OK with me if you liked the article.
It's good that you liked the article because you seem to have the same writing style and subject knowledge of your post material as the author of the C&D article has of his. Perhaps you can find that journalism job you would like right at the MAD Magazine Automotive Division (aka Road & Track). Facts and accuracy? Phffft.

I tried to just do a little humorous poke and call it a day, but no, you made me stop and write out what I really had to say on the topic.

And the trolling continues.........

 

I agree Tom that they are regular Toyotas. I doubt that it makes any difference that Toyota owns 51% of Daihatsu and (I believe) 77% of Central Motors who builds the xB2. I'm pretty sure controlling interest in anything means it gets done the Toyota way.

That was just another inaccuracy by omission in the article. Toyota did not own controlling interest in Daihatsu when Daihatsu failed to make it in the US market. Minor detail.

 

zomgxb may not respond after that

 

Yup. Toyota "rescued" Daihatsu after Daihatsu made some poor decisions and ended up in financial difficulty. There really wasn't anything wrong with the Daihatsu's brought into this country, quality wise, but they were undeniably JDM designs that looked decidedly odd to American eyes, and just didn't sell. There was not enough interest to even establish a nationwide dealer network.

Tom

 

I guess I should have qualified my statement by meaning Toyota vehicles actually available in the US.

My unsolicited opinions:
The Probox looks like an Element crashed into a Highlander.
The Succeed looks like pure Toyota vanilla. Inoffensive yet uninspiring.
The xB3 needs taller tailfins. ;)

 

xB3 needs a drop kit and wider wheels "bro". (reference to another thread with article from LA Times)
Or the current rage: "Throw some JDM dish hotness man..."
bleh

 

If they get any bigger it'll block the windows, and then the xB3 owners will know your pain of constant complaints over a blind spot that doesn't exist

You know, you bring up a good point - it does sort of say something that Toyota's one attempt at Cool is bringing in people all across the spectrum, including, possibly, cannibilistic sales from possible Toyota buyers. Toyota has made sort of a broad assumption in thinking that a) young people were objecting to "coolness" and not Toyota pricing (read: GM + 50% ), and b)people who actually have their student loans paid off might also want something interesting.

I was hung up on their original mission - the age thing - but again, you raise a good point...bringing in people who would never have bought Toyota, at any age, is a benefit for the company. Still, with 80% brand recognition among the youth of America, Scion has huge potential.

So what you're saying is, maybe they should un-dork the REST of their cars, and see if that doesn't even things out? I'm all for that!

Honestly, that might solve the age problem. Again, something I hadn't thought of - if you solve the problem of being the Steve Urkel of car companies, the youth thing sort of takes care of itself. Although we don't technically share a vehicle class, I really wouldn't mind sharing with any age bracket, as long as they're the COOL people in that age bracket ;)

SPEAKING of whom...! :D

ZING! You'd better hope I do - that's my salary your social security is drawing from! OH GOD I'M FUNNY no not really.

Yes: the article is full of crap (as is, you've quite astutely observed, right on par with AutoMAD, and 90% of car review sites). Still, this guy's "all those foreign nations are basically the same" fallacy regarding where Scions come from doesn't automatically invalidate everything he says - he's still nailed the disparity between What Toyota Said They Wanted To Do, and What They Actually Did. There's nothing wrong with what they did. It'd be like trying to bake brownies and coming up with the best chocolate cake ever. It's still not brownies.

Still, I think you may be on to something with that whole "get some sleep" thing.


Guys, seriously, not trolling here, more like "intensely discussing." Trolling would be posting 50 pictures of a PT cruiser, with a Honda Element stuck in the middle I do apologize that this makes some people feel defensive or uncomfortable. Like I said, hold on for the Gen 3's and we'll all be great friends ;)

 

btw, just for reference, this is what daihatsu makes:



The new bB looks something like this, too.

 

In a way, yes. but I really feel that Toyota's in a hard place right now. Expanding Scion *may* be their only hope of drawing younger buyers or people looking for something more than "appliance-like" transportation. I'm not disparaging Toyota technically. They make good cars.

 

Nah. I'm gonna buy one.

Yup. the front end is the most noticeable difference.

I think I like the bB version better.

 

That's hardly a troll, its a visual demonstration of an opinion regarding the xB losing part of its identity. I do apologize if I put it in the wrong section, it was a spur of the moment post. I didn't say the new xB was a crappy car, I said I prefer the box. It resembles the HHR much to much in my opinion, which I also happen to think looks too much like everyone's favorite "old person car" the PT Cruiser. Would I ever trade my "original" xB in for the new one? Probably, I'm an objective kind of guy. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize that this could possibly be a step backwards for its popularity. In fact I can imagine this could increase the value of the original xB decently due to the box not being manufactured anymore. Sure some hated it, but love or hate it said to everyone "this is an XB." Now you'll have to look twice to notice it on the road unless you're specifically looking for it.

I am curious to know whether or not its still as boxy on the inside. I moved an entire two bedroom apartment in the xB (everything that fit in a box, multiple trips just down the street), not counting the large furniture like beds and couches, and to lose that space on the inside is also a step backwards for its "utility-ness."



The picture doesn't do it justice, I should've taken it from the other side where you see them all going up to the windshield on the passenger side. The shape inside has been invaluable.