ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Sorry dude!!! had I known that you were "The Butcher" and wrote that well-intentioned, if very opinionated and misguided oil change DIY, I would have been a lot more PC in my reply. I wouldn't intentionally bash on a fellow SL'er like that. You obviously got your feelings hurt and for that and that alone, I apologize.

As for my own qualifications, I have 36 years of wrenching motorcycles and cars but I have never been a certified "lube technician" nor received a certificate from Castrol. I have re-built numerous engines, carbs, heads, transmissions, clutches, etc. and received bull____ certificates from Fel-pro, TRW, Borg-Warner, Raybestos, Cooper Tires, etc. I've also extensively modified numerous vehicles and raced them in motocross, autocross and bracket raced during those 36 years.

I'm glad you brought up the movie "Tommy Boy" and that quote. Despite the unpleasantness, I'd rather stick my head up a bull's butt to judge a T-Bone than to simply take "The Butcher's" word on it.

Sorry, but I've been down this road before and there won't be any point by point argument. I'm fine with letting the reader make up his own mind. I only try to educate and help where and when I can.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Hiya Andrew !

No offense, but you reacted just a little strongly to Fred's input. He's a multiply proven good man who has a good awareness of what's real and what's not. Sure, he may occasionally overstate (being human), but in my observation, he's usually at least close to the mark and clearly intending to provide helpful info. Be calm dude, opinions will always differ ! As for me, I've not only always done my own oil changes, but still do -- I really can't afford to pay others for such basic essentials (there are many other items within my perview that receive the same personal attention). Be well dude, and enhance your calm !

clifsmith

I am all for synthetics and have been using on my box since it hit 5k on the clock. Regarding oil changes every 3k...TOTAL OVERKILL..., At the minimum every 5k is perfectly fine. Me personally, I go every 7500. Regarding brand....I buy what ever (major brand) is on sale at wallyworld or autozone (oil/filter combo specials). Do-it-yourself saves ALOT of money and gives peace of mind knowing that it is done right and not risking some pimply faced boy not putting your oil filter on tight enough, which has happened to me. Enough said...

xbscion

I use Moble 1 and change the oil every 10,000 miles. Toyota has a reminder service light on the vehicle that reminds you to change the oil every 5k miles. Moble 1 is better than dyno oil, so I feel comfortable going 10k between oil changes.

I plan on keeping my xB until it falls a part so I'll see how many miles the engine goes before it gives up the ghost. If it has an oil related failure then I guess I went too many miles between oil changes.

I feel comfortable and I'm not going to lose any sleep over this. xB has 55k now.

I change my own oil.

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

Using 0w-30 or 5w-30 (with 0w-30, I was burning through a slight bit of oil on long trips), I change every 5,000-7,000 miles.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I used a 10Kmi yardstick with my Eclipse (Mobil 1), however, I sometimes slid ! I'm considering 7.5K for the xB and trying to be a little more punctual.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

To A-Snell and everyone, I apologize for the manner in which I questioned "The Butcher's" oil change DIY. When it comes to correct oil viscosity, formulation, change interval and brand preference there are few cold hard facts. This is a gray area full of differing opinions and although I strongly believe what I wrote, I really can't prove that A-Snell aka The Butcher was as wrong as I implied. Much of what he wrote was correct and I only commented on what I believed to be wrong. In the end all we can do is search for what few hard facts exist, listen to the many varied opinions and decide for ourselves what we think best for our cars.

As they say, opinions are like a-holes and every a-hole has one. This a-hole has stated his, take it FWIW. Carry on!

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I suspect the SL community comfortably accepts this and I hope Andrew does as well. There's no advantage in grudges in the best of situations, and since both personages are fundamentally fine individuals, I trust the argument can be dissolved without further ado. My best wishes to both !

SamCarroll

I went over to Synthetic a few days ago. Threw some Toyota 0-dub in it. Was cheaper than buying elsewhere. So far i havent honestly noticed a difference. I notice the engine noise is slightly louder, or the same. its been hot so i cant really judge because the fans have been busting their ___. Im going on a decent road trip this weekend so ill see if i notice any highway differences.

AJ_Gil

LOL I just spent 5 years over at the LX forums (had a cherry Magnum R/T) and this discussion was of course beat to death but avoiding the heated exchanges there was some good info to be had.

I'm a huge fan of synthetic (I'm a long time gearhead since old enough to walk and a wall full of racing trophies) and used Mobil 1 ever since I bought a LT1 Vette in '92 and it came with it. Apparently Mobil 1 has changed the formula over the years to a blend, so I went to Royal Purple and finally to Amsoil which appears to be one of the last pure synthetics.
No dyno tests to back it up but I did feel a little differance in the Mag when I went to Amsoil.

I'm going to dump the break-in oil at 1000mi run then 5000mi on the dino oil and then it's Amsoil for good. Obviously after 3 Vettes, the R/T and a Big Block drag boat my mid-life crisis is coming to an end and want this reliable little XB to haul my old butt around for a long time LOL!!!!!!

kingofthecrate

iTrader: (1)

That plan of execution sounds A+ in my book. Let those rings and gaskets seat well. There are a few misconceptions about synthetic oil around here. Don't get me wrong,
I run amsoil in both my harley s because they are air cooled and both stroked with 10the over bores and I feel confident in knowing the oil runs cooler and the flashing point is higher. However this whole my engine runs quieter with synthetic is purely mental and 100% wrong. Petroleum based oils have a different molecular structure that fills porous metals differently than synthetic therefore leaving you with less chatter on the top end. At the end of the day id take more chatter over less friction and heat. You want quiet go buy a Oldsmobile.



I have no facts about Mobil 1 changing their blends but a 80/20 blend wouldn't hurt anybody as long as you kept up on oci's.

Another fact that I never hear people mention is that todays engines are designed and made with tighter tolerances and will perform internally well over 300,000 miles with consistent oic's. Keep in mind you have to replace everything else bolted onto it twice but it will go that far. Not to mention its a Toyota and those things are just breaking in at 150k ;)



Another

AJ_Gil

Sorry I didn't mean to imply the Hemi ran "quieter". Between the Zoomers cat-back exhaust,, hi-flo cats, CAI & headers I obviously didn't care much about quiet LOL!

What I did notice with Amsoil over the others was the MDS (the hemis system of dropping to 4 cyl under light load which the oil / lifters plays a huge role) never performed better or more accurately with any other oil (dino or synthetic) and it felt like it made a bit more power with or without the Predator tune in. Like I said, no dyno or track testing to bear it out just the feel but I have been driving high performance cars a long-long time.

The heat & strain you mentioned I felt also applied to a 4cyl pushing the box along at sustained highway speeds so I figure let the synthetic do its thing once she breaks in

kingofthecrate

iTrader: (1)

Oh no I was just referring to others. Yes with simple results from less heat and friction will improve performance.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Mobil 1 is a full synthetic, not a "blend". It may contain some group III base oil (as most full synthetics do) but that is probably to enhance additive solubility. Group III oils are actually considered "synthetic" although they are not true group IV or V PAO. Unfortunately unless a manufacturer clearly states that their synthetic oil contains no group III base we have no way of knowing if it does.

Even Amsoil is less than clear in their FAQ:

AMSOIL engineers its lubricants with the synthetic base oil or combination of base oils best suited to a specific lubricant’s application demands

Amsoil, Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, et al all say that you can run full syn oil in a new engine and M1 is factory fill in many new cars. I'm not 100% sure but AFAIK our engines come filled with Toyota synthetic. I know I wouldn't run dino oil as thin as 0w20 or 5w20.

Engine tolerances got "tighter" long before oems started recommending 0/5w20 motor oils in place of 5/10w30. IMO this viscosity change has more to do with CAFE standards than engine wear protection. Amsoil's largest US dealer group agrees and recommends 0w30 instead.

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/5w20oil.htm



.

kingofthecrate

iTrader: (1)

Yeah scionfred, absolutely correct and that slipped my mind. The sinner viscosity was purely to meet the CAFE standards and keep the EPA smiling.

Now this is just what I would do and makes me sleep well at night.

0w20 for winters ( not sure how this applies to living in los angeles)

5w30 summer ( our summers usually get into the triple digits)


Any vehicle I own over 100,000 miles

10w40 winter
15w40 summer

Having said that any vehicle I do own with that high of mileage is an american made motor. I'm not sure if I would run the same spec oil in a japanese motor.



And the endless debate willmar johns

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

It's a pity that there aren't more cold hard facts to rely on when deciding which oil and what viscosity range to use. In general we know that engine tolerances are tighter today than they were 30 years ago and that motor oils are much better today then they were back then. If modern synthetic 0w20 caused any serious wear issues in today's engines I don't think the oem's would recommend it. OTOH, most people don't keep their cars for 200k+ miles and the oem's warranty obligations end long before that. I'm of the opinion that 0/5w20 synthetic is adequate but if you want better engine wear protection 5/10w30 is the way to go.

Another small point is that the winter viscosity is much less important with today's syn oils since they don't shear down the way dino oils do. For years I used to run the highest winter viscosity practical for the season since that is what the oil could potentially shear down to. I also chose the smallest viscosity range to avoid sludge formed from sheared polymers. This was the reason GM stopped recommending 10w40 years ago. These concerns are still valid to some degree with dino oils but don't really apply to full synthetics today.

Personally I ran 5w20 syn for the first 20k and then switched to 5w30 syn year round. The pour point and viscosity difference between 0w and 5w is so slight that I don't think it matters much. Especially not in MD where it rarely goes below 20F. Just today I read a Mobil engineer telling a customer that 5w was fine for a Wisconsin winter unless they experienced colder than usual temps.

Not that I fully agree with everything said in the following link but it is an interesting read on the subject of motor oil viscosity.

http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm

As always, YMMV and my opinions are just that, nothing more.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

That's similar to where I'm at with Mobil 1 -- 5W20 in the xB2, 10W40 in my 100K+ Eclipse. As far as winter is concerned, it needs to get pretty darned cold before there's a need to reduce oil viscosity -- Alaska (perhaps Minnesota)?

kingofthecrate

iTrader: (1)

You can chalk that up on my list of things to ask god when I die. The closest I have gotten is from experience and used oil analysis from the heavy machinery we use in our show generators. The old ones we run dinosaur. The newer ones we run synthetic. I could post the results later this week id anyone cares.

kingofthecrate

iTrader: (1)

It seems to be one of the ONLY things missing from performance enthusiasts and like you said, everyone has their opinions and mileage may vary. I think which is why I feel it comes back to what you are comfortable with.. Call me crazy but I "feel" my car runs better and is "happier" after a fresh service.. I realize its mechanical and has no means of showing emotions, however I also know what it is like to be stuck along the 15 highway in Baker, CA in 118 degree weather because a radiator decided it was neglected enough and would not allot flow any longer. Hence the reason I take preventative maintenance very seriously.


For instance, I ran power generators for the rock n roll touring industry.. I have seen parasitic loads vary from 100 amps a leg to 1800 amps a leg fluctuate from second to second while the lighting director at a kiss show is flashing the KISS sign over stage to the rhythm of the song. It makes the machine dance around as if it were in the middle of that concert floor singing to the tune of the song.. One of the reasons my company (Show Power) back then was reputable was because we maintained our machines better than any company out there.. in that, they hardly failed and the show went on.. Well the same rules should apply to our vehicles.. In my short (8 year) stint at Chevrolet, the cars I noticed that were "The biggest pieces of ____ ever" were owned and operated by people who gassed and go..

I realize I am on a total rant and taking you all down memory lane over here but the point of this was if you take care of your car she will take care of you.. bottom line.. if you run crap oil and stay on your OCI's every 3k than I dont see you ever having an issue. Possibly more sludge build up from cheaper detergents but during "normal" driving conditions you should be fine. If you plan on laying into it because you watched too much fast and furious, I would explore better oils with higher viscosities. I just use the better stuff (amsoil) because it helps me sleep at night knowing my babies are healthy..

AJ_Gil

Yeah, being in S. Fla I only have to deal with hot & hotter LOL!

Everyone has (and will defend) their preferances but as many have said "take care of your ride with great maintenance and it will take care of you".