^^yes pics please

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Hell, after we stock floored my fullsize, I drove it straight to Reso '05. :D I had 0 problems.

 

Air definitely has its cool points and is a helluva convenient mod but the post about it being 100% reliable (if you do it right) is completely wrong.

With all parts there is a margin of error due to various conditions, variables, and instances. Springs fail, coilover's fail, and air definitely fails. I'll put it this way.... the fewer parts you have and the fewer contacts and connections you have the less likely you'll have failures due to limiting the amount of weak points you have in that particular system. Every bend, rub, twist, contact is a potential problem.... so w/ that being said anyone ever saying air is just as safe or reliable as any coilover system needs to retract their statement.

Coilover's sometimes blow, thats a fact of life. Some manufacturers have higher standards and better valving etc etc..... some dont. Most of the time if a coilover were to fail it would basically leak, springs are just springs so there's not much room for springs to fail unless they seriously have bad QC and materials..... most of the time springs cause something else like the shock to blow. Air suspension companies don't R&D like any performance suspension company do. Test fitting and checking for ride balance/comfort is NOT R&D in the way performance suspension companies R&D.

If you're wagering the options of going with Air Runner, Cusco coils or Springs then the choice should really be based on what type of driving do you do? what is your budget? and what do you really want your xB to do?

if you show your car alot and drive soft or live in an area w/ alot of steep driveways then I would recommend air suspension 100% of the time.

if you like to drive and like having the ability to lower and raise your car w/ minimal work (xB is really light car and adjusting the height is extremely easy), then the coilover's are more for you. Most of the time when you buy a coilover its b/c you want a well matched spring/shock setup that gives your car a superior feel not matched by any other setup. Certain aftermarket manufacturers' will change the spring rates for you if you want them more comfortable or aggressive. Adjusting your damper will also give you a bit more control on how you want your car to handle.

If budget is your biggest concern then spring's is the way to go, there are some pretty solid options for springs out there. Ideally springs give a bit of better feel out of your car if you like to feel planted but don't expect to be carving down the roads w/ your springs, these should be looked at if you just want to lower your vehicle. Springs are also not height adjustable, so what you see is what you get.

And then there are con's w/ every system mentioned. Air suspension have higher cost, their parts are more uncommon so costs are driven up to achieve profit margin for these companies. They also have more associated parts in their bundle ie. solenoid, lines, fittings, cannister, shocks etc....

Coilover's are pretty much the bench mark for any car. Your choice in various brands will determine your ride comfort and handling levels. You can adjust height however it's not as convenient as air and you'll have to put in some work to raise n balance all 4 corners.

Springs..... I'm pretty sure everyone knows the con's about springs so I wont dive into it too much.... you basically get what you pay for in springs. Not rocket science here.d

PS. There's a system that I feel is just perfect for the average car enthusiast....Top Secret has a cup kit called the Roberuta that will fit over your coilover so you drive on the coilover and have the ability to raise your car to go over driveways. Its just so damn expensive though.... top notch kit, Roberuto got famous from making ferrari parts in Japan.

 

That Roberuta system looks to be a rip off.... you can build the same set up with coilovers and Universal Air bags. Problem is on the xB you have to use a rear bag anyway so why pay all that money for the Roberita when you can not use the rear anyway. It still has to have the air management system so you are not gaining reliability with it. Many companies out there also make a suspension with an air bag mounted on a coil over.

As you mentioned though it depends on his driving style and budget.

 

^^ sorry but Roberuta cup kits are a different breed than UAS bags..... w/ these you drive normal as you would be on coilovers.... then you raise to get over humps and steep driveways.

I think a better way to look at it is the Universal Air bags is so you can lower your car..... the Roberuta is so you can raise your car.

Basically if you still want the driving capabilities of a coilover yet need instant height adjustability then Roberuta is the way to go. Air Force Suspension has a version of this kit as well but I've heard of some cheap components that would need to be upgraded.

 

The UAS bags on coilovers would be the same thing. The coil over would set the ride height. HPS suspension in Switzerland has had the set up for years. The Robruta is just a metal encased air bag that is installed at its smallest height and then can lift the car up.

 

If I remember correctly, the Roberuta cup kits are exclusively for allowing you to raise the ride to clear bumps but are not meant to be driven on while inflated past that at all. Do the UAS bags on coilovers allow you to drive with them inflated or are they also meant to just raise the car temporarily to clear a speed bump or clear a driveway?

 

exactly! Roberuta cups are for the drivers car..... In theory I guess they are both similar but their usage and mechanical limits are different! Roberuta prioritizes the coilover driving experience first..... the bags prioritize lowering your car. Ask a driver, any driver..... it dont matter if you raise or lower it by an inch or a foot. Winnings winning.

EDIT: forgot to answer the question.

UAS bags on coilovers allow you to drive with them inflated. When you get bags they are set at the cars lowest setting so when you totally deflate the bags and sit on the coilovers you basically are on the ground which makes it impossible to drive. Normal driving height would require you raise the car (partially inflate the bag). I've ridden in numerous cars on air and they all have some level of choppiness to them. Don't mistake that road feel as if it were coilover rebound, its not. Bags are great for most people, just clearing up some misconceptions.

 

PS when's the last time you ever saw a Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo on air bags? Never, its because they all go w/ Roberuta cup kits. Its about driving first and foremost!

 

What Go HIN said. +++++

There is more than meets the eye. So think in terms of what you are buying, dollar for dollar. For most people, DD, a good spring with the stock damper will be fine. If you want to drive hard the valve in the damper will not be in an optimal location for the travel it was designed for. However, this does not mean your dampers will fail sooner rather than later - it's all about load.

 

I have seen many of the cars you mentioned on air/coilover setups here are a few.




You are basing your opinion of air ride on the kits that are designed purley to make the car low for show purposes not an air ride suspension system designed to perform well and raise the car when needed. In the end it is you get what you pay for. If you spend money on a quality air ride suspension designed to perform well then you are going to get the best of both worlds.

 

that porsche is DIRTY!!!

 

Yup. I see it right on top of the right exhaust tip....... Low & mean though...............

 

and not one of these cars will ever see the track..... that I can assure you. If you ask the HPS guys to let em' ride the track I'm sure the results will not be too favorable.

I'm really not trying to hate so don't take it as if I'm bashing air suspension. They have their place in the world and are probably more better fit for 90% of the people in the world.

there are some air bag kits that can perform better than others but no pro competitive vehicles run air, the science just doesn't work out for track use. You can get negative rebound but no positive rebound.... so dip slip slide crash. that is all.....

 

I have seen video of HPS vehicles on the track and they perform well. It can be used exactly the same as your Robruta system where the bag only offers lift when you want it and you ride on their coil overs only.

Also check out this car, outperformed a Corvette C05
http://ridetechtv.com/featured_landi...=true#playlist

 

That wasn't a fair test, there were so many variables in that test... first off the Chevelle had all of its suspension beefed up and the NT01S (on 17x10 all around w/ 275/40/17) provided way more grip than the C5's Nitto 555's which as all enthusiasts have unanimously considered a sub par performing tire.

The Chevelle was fitted with a 430hp crate motor. The rest of the suspension has been built, even the shocks and tire pressures were set dead on for autox. Some of the other comments made in that test were about how the Chevelle was fitted with the best brakes out of the bunch.

Ridetech has put in a godloads of work and effort into that 66 chevelle. When it showed up to the Super Chevy test it had just gotten back from the salt flats. Thats a bad a$$ car! with or without the air ride. I'd love to have it!

anyways, if you want to recommend to other members to ride on HPS then thats on you. I'm just listing various options out there. If you go with Air then there are pro's and cons about it. Stick to the larger brands that utilize high quality components b/c the last thing u want is to bust a bag or line while driving. If you want Coilover's then stick to the real companies that do actual R&D and have a history of high quality valving, some brands to mention may be Zeal, Tein, Stance, JIC, or Ohlins. And springs will be springs... you have your choices there.

The cool thing about the guys at Ridetech is that they do also spend alot of time trying to find that fine balance between air and track. They've spent alot of time in the hot rod world producing air suspension that handles well. I remember seeing their videos at SEMA for several years now. But I'll leave it at this... no air setup will ever beat out a true coilover system. I also mentioned the Roberuta kit which would allow the coilover system to be used and its ride height adjustability is purely for convenience to get over humps and steep inclines. IMO thats all I really want out of a kit. Just gettin' over that dip so I dont damage my car.

Aside from that, no 66 chevelle would be able to beat a c5 corvette if all applications were the same except the choice in suspension parts. Thats just absurd! Put a 500hp chevelle with upgraded brakes and air against a 400hp Corvette with brakes and a simple coilover kit and I'll take the vette on any slalom or autox track.

Again this isn't a knock on any of the products afore mentioned. Its just simple suspension dynamics so the original poster of this thread can make a decision on the type usage the owner wants out of their suspension setup.

If you're with Scionpro and you guys are pushing HPS setups then thats great, Cusco sponsored and debuted their coilover system on my car and I've been a long time fan of coilover's in general and will continue to push high quality companies that produce good products. I haven't pushed the original poster to go with any particular setup, just listing the options and pros' and cons with each option so they could make the decision based off of their own needs.

 

PS I just re-read your post about some air suspension companies utilizing bags solely to lift a car and normally riding on the coilover. I agree with you, can't speak for the above mentioned companies but I will agree that that type of setup could be just as good as a Roberuta kit. I still rather go with what the GT-R's, Lambo's, Ferrari's, and Porsche owners recommend.

 

I am not trying to sell any particular product in this thread. I wanted to make sure people were aware of performance based air ride suspensions out there.

Yes I am the National Sales rep for SCIONPRO, but we are no longer affiliated with HPS. They make amazing products but they are out of the price point for most SCION owners.

I am not trying to sell anything in this thread just was defending the idea of performance based air ride suspensions.