NEW NST Group Buy: xD Crank Pulley
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 318
From: Costa Rica
Re: NEW NST Group Buy: xD Crank Pulley
[quote="PHATBLK"]I've noticed there is no xD menu links on your site - why don't you spend $100 to have your web pro include a link to xD products?
[quote="NonStopTuning"]
Perhaps because there is no xD Pulley yet!!! jeeeez 
The xD pulley is in development and only available thru this group buy exclusive for members.
After the group buy the pulley will probably go into the NST normally stocked items and obvioulsy a link will have to be available. And that is about 6 weeks away.
[quote="NonStopTuning"]
Originally Posted by PHATBLK
Looked at the NST website - I couldn't find a xD section. Could you forward a link?
The xD pulley is in development and only available thru this group buy exclusive for members.
After the group buy the pulley will probably go into the NST normally stocked items and obvioulsy a link will have to be available. And that is about 6 weeks away.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 957
Re: NEW NST Group Buy: xD Crank Pulley
Originally Posted by PHATBLK
I've noticed there is no xD menu links on your site - why don't you spend $100 to have your web pro include a link to xD products?
my wife (as awesome as she is 
) got me a 26-gallon air compressor for christmas and its dying to be broken in!!! also, does anyone have the torque-spec?
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,052
It did but I only have a 100 on it, not enough to cover for shipping, I've been trying to get a hold of NST to see if I can pay for the Pulley now and pay shipping when the time comes to ship but I think they are all on vacation atm. Otherwise I have to wait for the credit card to arrive. Xmas screwed up all them mail, shoulda been here by now >:O lol sorry for the wait guys
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 957
its all good, lol, just givin ya crap 
ive been waiting for some packages for over two weeks now from woot.com (damn that website) that have been delayed because of the terrible weather and the holidays. the worst part of it all is they are stuck in a terminal like 2 hours away! im sure mike has the torque-specs for the pulley...
ive been waiting for some packages for over two weeks now from woot.com (damn that website) that have been delayed because of the terrible weather and the holidays. the worst part of it all is they are stuck in a terminal like 2 hours away! im sure mike has the torque-specs for the pulley...
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 34
Re: NEW NST Group Buy: xD Crank Pulley
There is no link on the NST site. A lot of people on these boards think that they are great, but they don't even have a xd link. Whats wrong about asking???
this must be yet another concept thats too difficult for him to grasp - let me put this into terms youre sure to understand... the xD pulley is not on the NST website for the SAME reason there is not a supercharger link on the TRD website for the xD. heres another idea you should try... take your beef with NST and GTFO.
Originally Posted by pickledchang
Originally Posted by PHATBLK
I've noticed there is no xD menu links on your site - why don't you spend $100 to have your web pro include a link to xD products?
For those who are curious, or who think they need to do some investigation to help the community in some way...
There is no link on our website, because this pulley is not a mass produced in-stock item as of this writing.
The purpose of this Group Buy is to give ScionLife members the first chance to own one of these pulleys. You can think of this as a chance to get in line first and be the first to view a sneak peak.
After we finish with production (late Jan, early Feb) these pulleys will become in-stock items and will be available (with a direct link) on our website for all to see, read about, and order.
I didn't realize that this process could lead to any confusion, and I apologize for any misunderstandings it may have caused.
Many many thanks to those of you who have joined this Group Buy, good luck and have fun with all your future projects everyone!
There is no link on our website, because this pulley is not a mass produced in-stock item as of this writing.
The purpose of this Group Buy is to give ScionLife members the first chance to own one of these pulleys. You can think of this as a chance to get in line first and be the first to view a sneak peak.
After we finish with production (late Jan, early Feb) these pulleys will become in-stock items and will be available (with a direct link) on our website for all to see, read about, and order.
I didn't realize that this process could lead to any confusion, and I apologize for any misunderstandings it may have caused.
Many many thanks to those of you who have joined this Group Buy, good luck and have fun with all your future projects everyone!
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 957
...wow - its simply amazing that its so difficult to comprehend why there is no xD link for the pullies.
you also have to understand, or try to understand, who is doing said asking....
mike, do you have the torque specs for the installation?
There is no link on the NST site. A lot of people on these boards think that they are great, but they don't even have a xd link. Whats wrong about asking???
mike, do you have the torque specs for the installation?
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 592
From: Milrockee, WI
Originally Posted by pickledchang
that topic has already been beat to death, its unessecary. but if you want reassurance, im sure you could ask PHATBLK to chime in with some of his holy wisdom.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 957
cant find the thread that was here, but similair thread from yarisworld:
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4737
page 14
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4737
page 14
Originally Posted by NonStopTuning
This is actually the fourth time we are covering this subject of vibrations, balancing, and dampers again. But I don't mind, I understand that your cars are a very large investment for all of you and I prefer that you be intelligent and informed about all your modifications. So here we go again... Please take a few minutes to read everything I have posted here, as I worked hard on trying to give you a good explanation on the topic...
In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large (6 to
V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.
Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.
What you will find on ALL engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your Toyota dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?
Many many NST customers, including people on your own forums, have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???
Furthermore....
On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...
On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consiquences. The factory pulley with a 2mm (less than a 1/8th inch) damper is primarily there for wide band NVH (noise vibration harshness) supression from the engine and driveline. Removing the damper and replacing it with a solid pulley may lead to minor addtional NVH but will not harm the engine. In fact, most people claim their engines seem to run smoother with NST pulleys.
The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.
Now small engines that are pushing the limit with lots of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 1.5Liter, 400HP, 11,000RPM Yaris motors do we have on these forums?
As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.
There are a lot of Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting 23 to 45 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes.
NST sponsors the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. This car has been using underdrive pulleys from NST with great results since day one.
NST also sponsors two drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Both of these cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.
We could go on and on...
Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. Small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm often reached by certain race engines.
A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case , the stock balancer/damper is probably not adequate either.
Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result.
Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.
I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject.
Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. However, this is the fourth time I have addresed this on YarisWorld. If I have to post this info once a month in this same thread, I will continue to do so. I do not take pride in building junk. No NST product is junk. No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. I am not in business to sell junk. PERIOD.
In the past many engines were externally balanced. There was an external balancer attached to the outside of the engine, on the crank snout, used to balance the engine externally. The crank pulley in such engines would then be attached to this balancer. Removal of this balancer is a bad idea. These balancers were most often used on large (6 to
V shaped engines of the domestic muscle car era.Take a look at any modern (1980s and beyond) Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or other japanese inline 4 and you will find no such balancer. These engines are all internally balanced, and this process has improved even further since the late 1990s. So the topic of a BALANCER does not apply here.
What you will find on ALL engines is a harmonic damper. This is a small rubber band, litterally less than 2mm, less than 1/8th of an inch, thick that is built into the crank pulley. OEM crank pulleys are often called DAMPERS. Try placing an order for a crank pulley at your Toyota dealer and your invoice will read damper. This rubber is used to absorb something called NVH, noise/vibration/harshness. Suffice it to say, this rubber is actually not very good at performing its intended purpose after as little as a few thousand miles. What happens to rubber after a couple years of humidity, weather, snow, rain, etc? It often becomes brittle, hard, and crunchy. Can something with these properties actually absorb vibrations very well?
Many many NST customers, including people on your own forums, have reported smoother running engines with NST pulleys. Especially at idle. How is this possible if the rubber is such a vital and super important piece??? Perhaps the rubber is not as important as it is cracked up to be???
Furthermore....
On the topic of the rubber damper, engine vibrations, or possible threats resulting from elimination of this rubber piece...
On a relatively understressed near stock motor with bolt ons or low amounts of boost like what most of the people on this forum probably run, a solid pulley will not have any life threatening consiquences. The factory pulley with a 2mm (less than a 1/8th inch) damper is primarily there for wide band NVH (noise vibration harshness) supression from the engine and driveline. Removing the damper and replacing it with a solid pulley may lead to minor addtional NVH but will not harm the engine. In fact, most people claim their engines seem to run smoother with NST pulleys.
The engineering reasons are that most modern engines have a short, strong crank with, a relatively high natural frequency. The dangerous second harmonic that can cause damage occurs at an rpm that this sort of engine will never see, in the area above 10,000 rpm. Even the stock damper is not tuned for attinuation at this sort of rpm so the argument is somewhat of a moot point.
Now small engines that are pushing the limit with lots of revs, wimpy cranks, super long strokes, lots of boost and dwelling in the upper rpm ranges for long periods of time can benefit from a damper designed to deal with this sort of operation but our engine is not like this, and probably very few people with this motor on this forum push the envelope that hard. How many 1.5Liter, 400HP, 11,000RPM Yaris motors do we have on these forums?
As far as I can tell, our engine has a strong and stiff bottom end that is well built for our intended use. It has an internaly balanced crankshaft which is less like to break due to torsional vibration.
There are a lot of Nissan guys who use underdrive crank pulleys in road racing series like NASA or SCCA. Road racing is much more punishing on an engine than other motorsports. The engine is subjected to run times lasting 23 to 45 minutes with the engine always in the upper ranges of its rpm limit. One race weekend is the equivlent of hundreds of 1/4 mile passes.
NST sponsors the first ever wheel to wheel Scion tC NASA Road Race car. This car has been using underdrive pulleys from NST with great results since day one.
NST also sponsors two drift cars participating in the professional US drift series, Fromula Drift. Both of these cars have been using NST pulleys with no issues of any kind for the past few seasons.
We could go on and on...
Is a solid crank pulley harmless to all engines? No it is not. Small, super high reving engines, when modified way past the simple bolt on stages may have problems. These engines reach critcal harmonics, past the 10,000 rpm range, an rpm often reached by certain race engines.
A mildly modded inline six will most likely be fine but one subjected to high rpm for long periods of time (90% of its life) with lots of boost will probably suffer. In this case , the stock balancer/damper is probably not adequate either.
Some of the older american V8 engines are externaly balanced and it is critical not to use a solid hub pulley not designed for these applications, or damage to the engine could result.
Our engines and most around here do not fall into the above catagories. Rest assured that your engines will not blow up and die or have a reduced life in street and even racing use with these parts.
I would bet that every "expert" that tells you otherwise has little personal, practical, real world experience with the subject.
Again, I understand that your cars are a very large investment and that you depend on them as your daily means of transportation, so I do not take your questions personally. However, this is the fourth time I have addresed this on YarisWorld. If I have to post this info once a month in this same thread, I will continue to do so. I do not take pride in building junk. No NST product is junk. No NST product is designed to cause you any harm or grief. I am not in business to sell junk. PERIOD.
Thank you for posting that pickledchang.
Furthermore, you guys can search the following forums for more feedback regarding NST pulleys. Thousands of user reviews regarding NST's performance, products, reliability...
www.ScionLife.com
www.YarisWorld.com
www.8thCivic.com
www.Club4AG.com
www.XR-Underground.com
www.86garage.com
www.Houston240SX.com
Again, you will find THOUSANDS of user reviews, ALL of which have been positive.
Furthermore, you guys can search the following forums for more feedback regarding NST pulleys. Thousands of user reviews regarding NST's performance, products, reliability...
www.ScionLife.com
www.YarisWorld.com
www.8thCivic.com
www.Club4AG.com
www.XR-Underground.com
www.86garage.com
www.Houston240SX.com
Again, you will find THOUSANDS of user reviews, ALL of which have been positive.