I've been running a manufactured (not rebased) H4 bi-xenon HID 8000K set in the stock freeform reflector headlights for a year in one of my '05 xB's and the chroming is deteriorating inside the lamps. The area directly above and behind the lamp/tube in an elongated oval has turned dull gray just like when the silvering on a bathroom mirror oxidizes and exposes the gray sealer. The size and shape is almost exactly like what a penny looks like after coming out of one those tourist commemorative machines. The damage has occurred over the course of a year and 30K miles.

Since the 35 watt 23KV HID tube runs considerably cooler than even a stock 55 watt halogen bulb it couldn't be "burned" in the traditional sense by heat. I'm assuming this is some kind of a photochemical reaction on the mylar reflector finish caused by the 300% higher luminous discharge of HID vs halogen. I started noticing a dull "spot" on the reflector about 6 mo.s ago and since then it has doubled. Thus far it still appears to have had little effect on lighting but I'm concerned that the area in question may continue to spread.

If anyone else has noticed reflector dulling/graying above their halogen bulbs or especially with a HID retrofit, I would really like to know. Replacing headlight capsules every year seems like an expensive nuiscance. Otherwise, these custom built JDM bi-xenons with an electronically-controlled hi-low beam shutter have provided an outstanding illumination pattern with a projector-like cut-off that I have been very pleased with.

For the time being, we have left our other '05 xB with Silver Star halogens but I'm wondering if there is a problem with the stock reflector material that will begin showing even with regular halogen (just slower). I've just never heard of reflector deterioration caused by HID's before. If this is Toyota's problem, I'd like to explore options with them, otherwise I'm gonna need to stock up on spare headlight sets!

Anyone here gotta clue what's going on?

TorneoDude
'05 xB PW, bi-xenon 23KV Hi/Low HID + 4"round in-grille aux HID HiBeams
'05 xB BC, SilverStar halogen

 

replace the HIDS with stockers, take it back to the dealer and have them replace it with new headlights...? That might be a little dishonest, but you might be able to get an answer if this is happening with other peoples stock headlights...

 

Oh god, it's the unneccessarily verbose baby boomer again.

There are no "options" to "explore" here. You used an aftermarket part and screwed up your car.

Suck it up and buy a new headlight. Tons of people are buying poorly-made angel eye projector lights, a new stock housing can't be that hard to find on ebay.

 

Real wisdom there; Thanks. To think that such pearls could come from a kid with fur on his dash and a girls umbrella-holder added to his hatch.

I did say at the end of the post: It's replies like yours from the MTV JackAss generation that have us "verbose baby boomers" worried about the next generation.

I spend as much time searching and buying eBay as you do apparently trying to win a posting contest here on SL without contributing anything of value but being a smart aleck. eBay is full of pull-offs for wheels, tires, taillights,and hubcaps but stock headlamp units and grilles are rarely ever offered. Apparently all those people who are buying those aftermarket lighting units are not convinced they are going to stick with them.

You don't appear to have done anything distinguishingly technical or mechanical to your xB to warrant wasting your prolific time making absolutely useless comments to every post that appears in SL. If you don't know anything, why bother? Got nothing better to do than antagonize people? Must not be any McDonalds hiring in Rhode Island these days.

 

Say what you wish about my umbrella holder, you're the one who slapped badges from a japanese honda sedan on the back of his car.

Ebay might not be the best place to look, but I'm sure a set of OE headlights wouldn't be that hard to come by in the scionlife classifieds. You could always buy one from the dealer.

Spare me the lecture about the degenerate youth of today, we're financing your medicaid viagra.

 

Thanks DeadRinger for giving my question a thought. I don't think the warranty covers parts like this for more than a year. I don't mind buying new ones every year if I have to. (I already bought one set from a guy on SL just now.) I figured since these xB's have been around for a couple of years, maybe someone with an older model might tell me if they are noticing any reflector damage on theirs (either with stock bulbs or HID). There are lots of xB's and other cars out there that have had ballasted HID or 80-120 watt HO halogens retrofitted into plastic capsule headlights but the only problems I have read about are overheating/melting lamps and/or wiring with the HO halogens. I have yet to read anything about HID's dulling reflectors; especially since OE manufacturers appear to be installing HID into plastic units as well.

My thought is that the intensity of the HID may only be accelerating a photochemical decay of the material because it is more intense. I suspect, it may be showing up to some degree within 5 years on the rest of the stock units even with less intense halogen bulbs. I don't think this should be happening unless the material is substandard. Just like we are seeing lots of dull foggy yellow lenses on older capsulated headlight cars, I suspect we will eventually run into that on our xB's as well. It's possible the xB's just aren't old enough to get an answer on this yet.

If I contact Toyota at this point, they will simply take the "out" that they do not approve or warranty any problem potentially prompted by installation of aftermarket products. I generally agree and believe this is an acceptable risk when installing anything not sold directly thru the Scion dealer. In this case though, it looks like this problem might be unique to the product materials in the xB and if so even the stockers will eventually create the same problem. If so, this might be of universal concern to all xB owners running the OE set up but it is not likely to come up until Toyota is no longer covering the parts under warranty.

Thanks for the reply!

 

Oh, no he didn't!

 

I notice you avoided justifying the fur on your dash! I think it would take alot of Honda badges on my tailgate to come close to being as bad as that 70's pimp-fur The umbrella-holder might not be such a bad idea; they have them in the door on the new Rolls. They are simple elegant and functional ... just not as... uh... gender-specific

As to the "lecture about the degenerate youth of today"... I have kids in their late teens to early 20's, so they're not all useless posers. I was refering specifically to those like you who love to flood a BBS with low-value posts like "Sweet Dude!" and snide remarks.

Oh and since you brought up social security, kido, our generation is paying for your grandpa's Viagra. According to the last SS statement, I have paid over $100K into the program to-date and people of my generation are likely to see zip of that by the time we reach retirement age. You're just getting started; you haven't paid in enough to buy anybody a dose of Viagra yet so quit griping!

Don't knock old geezers kid. We've already been your age and never will be again but you will soon enough be ours! Just think, You're halfway there already.

 

Max2k is ___, and I'm not saying that because it's my personal opinion, I remember reading that tidbit in a post of his. Not that anyone needs justification for what they do to their car, but his taste in mods is specific to his sexual preference.

Can't we all just get along? We're here to support other Scion owners.

 

I'm pretty sure the feather boa on the dash thing is something alot of straight JDM kids do also, not that sexual orientation should matter at all in this discussion.
Max is right... whatever the reason for the discoloration the headlights weren't designed to house HID's. Either buy another cheap OEM set off Ebay or try retrofitting projectors instead.

 

Nice rebuttal about the Viagra tho

 

Hey thanks guys for replying.

I Google'd for an HID forum and found one. I posted the question on the BBS and got several replies already sofar if anyone is interested.

According to the HID guys, this is common even with stock HID projectors and can be seen inside of Audi A4 lamps which are some of the earlier HID's that have been on the market for a while. (I think we even have a guy here on SL that modified some for his xB). Another guy said that some of it was like a smoke residue which he cleaned off. A lighting pro said that the light output loss was measurable only on a light meter.

So... unless it can't be cleaned off and spreads like Kudzu... it might be no sweat... Unless it also happens with the stock bulbs as well. (The lower light output of halogen bulbs might be more affected by the condition.) So far it looks like an HID-exclusive issue.

Thanks all!

 

It's comforting to know bickering spans the generations. :D

I like DeadRinger's suggestion, assuming you're morally flexible.

 

With regard to the lack of technical or mechanical modifications on my car, I don't feel the need to spend large amounts of money in pursuit of 8-10hp and a 120db exhaust note for my japanese econo-box. I also live in New England, so rims, drops, and body kits are out. I don't personally like the dominant "tuner" paradigm anyway; I'd much rather have silly disco lights, feather boas, and superfluous crystal accents than another tuner car with 4-point harnesses, an unpainted CF hood, and 8 gauges chilling on the A-pillar. This whole car customizing thing is supposed to be fun. I'm having fun.

I'm pretty sure my taste has less to do with the sexual orientation than with me as a person. More people should design the interiors of their cars to reflect themselves.

Moving on to your particular problem; If the discolored spot is just some residue, you've got 2 options for cleaning it: First, you could just stick your finger in through the hole for the bulb and see if you can fix it that way. If that doesn't work, you can remove the headlight and open it up by putting it in the oven for 5 minutes at 250 to soften up the glue sealant, then pry the lens off the light assembly. Whip out your desired cleaning product and go to town. To seal them back up, just stick the lens back in and bake for a couple minutes. No need to re-seal with silicone, toyota built a high-quality headlight.

By the way, I said medicaid, not social security. I'm not going to argue that the so-called greatest generation didn't get a lot more than its fair share of government benifits and services. We're just probably going to be paying off your retirements just like you paid off your parents'.

I'm sure the greatest generation were probably worried about how disrespectful and negative all you dope-smokin', authority-challengin' rock 'n' rollers were. Chillax, we'll make it work somehow.

 

You're absolutely right Max! Alot of what is being offered for performance is complete garbage; either very little enhancement or complete bogus. I'd personally prefer to wait for a tested turbo or belt-driven supercharger for the xB like the TC or if I was willing to risk the motor- a NOS set-up. For my purposes 0-60 in 9 sec is fast enough for both my wife's grocery-getter (BCM xB) or my work van (PW xB). If I want to go 0-60 in 5.7 sec.s, I still have 2x vintage 6.3l Benzes that can get the job done with no mod.s.

I really should not have taken a dig at your interior There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing just what you said "design the interiors of their cars to reflect themselves ". I just didn't care for the rude tone of your initial reply and pointless stating of the bleeding obvious. Not that you need anyone's/my approval, but your lighting and interior shows initiative and creativity regardless of whether or not everyone appreciates it. I personally like "luxury" trim and accents. My interiors are done with 45pc Japanese real wood veneer kits; Japanese (Sakuya) Cherrywood in the PW and Striped Zebrawood in the BC. Just for the hell-of-it, I would like to rebadge another xB a la Toyota Soarer and redo everything Avalon-style with wood and leather trim on dash and doors, heated electric leather seats, sunroof, cruise, video monitors and the GPS head-unit. As to mechanicals, I'd like to see if I could adapt a drivetrain (complete) out of a 2002 Celica GTS 1.8l 6spd into the xB. Anyway...


Wow! See now that's what I call a post! That is something very useful that I did not know I had assumed that the sealer was some kind of very permanent epoxy and that there was little chance of safely disassembling them. Thank you very much for sharing this! I wanted to integrate a DRL bulb or possibly some LED's inside the lamps anyway (even before the discoloration issue surfaced) and wouldn't do it unless I could drill from the inside-out. (The drilling from outside-in tends to create a raised crown around the hole and you can't get all the fine debris/dust of the inside through the lamp-hole. ) I've got a spare set coming from an SL member that I will put in the oven so I can work the lamp first and set up for the custom backlighting before I install it into the xB. I realize I'd best wait to install the actual LED's or bulbs until after it cools from rejoining though. Great suggestion! Thanks Again