I'll get better pics next time I jack up the car.

Driving impressions to follow....

-Pete

 

hmmm the rear bar looks a bit thin .... i would have expected the front to be thinner than the rear.
and how's that JIC system treating you ?

 

the front bar on a fwd car should always be thicker than the rear bar.

 

^^ true dat. i forgot we are dealing with our FWD setups haha.

 

i have the same setup the rear works in conjunction with the factory rear sway bar.

 

This rear bar is a really mild improvement. If the rear suspension was fully independent (which it is not), this small, 1/2" adder bar would only increase roll stiffness by 25 to 30%. However, since the rear torsion beam also acts as a sway bar, the impact of the add this small add on bar is even less. This bar has about the same impact as removing the stock 17mm bar and replacing it with an 18 mm bar. Pretty mild in my book when the car understeers in stock form.

 

its designed to understeer since its been proven to be safer.

 

Certainly.....But I expect that out of Toyota. A performance company normally "pushes the envelope" of safety to benefit performance. Even TRD feels comfortable with adding a 22mm bar which is nearly 10 times as stiff as the 1/2" bar.

 

trd only has a rear bar out as far as i knew. i haven't seen or heard of a front sway bar for the xa or xb from trd.

 

If the Hotchkis front bar is stiffer, it is likely only a little stiffer as it is hollow. It could even be less stiff than stock, but I doubt it. This stiffer bar would add to front roll stiffness, but this stiffer front bar would also add understeer that the rear bar should be trying to correct. My guess is the the Hotchkis setup stiffens both the front and rear just a little. This leaves much of the stock understeer characteristic intact. The new front bushings will give the kit a snappy feel that the owner will notice. A lot of time or money to install with only a minor improvement of roll stiffness and minor impact on stock understeer.

 

my best guess would be that trd tuned the sway bar to work with there other suspension items as well. these arent track cars from the factory they're meant for street driving. i understand that some owners drive on the track and upgrade but trd i'm sure put the package together to work with their stuff. there is such a thing as to stiff too. which most of us should never see.

 

Can't post too much, because I'm at work:

Every car I've put sway bars on use a larger diameter bar in the front (because the cars are heavier in the front). Unless you're driving a rear engine car, I doubt you'll see a larger bar on the rear

The Hotchkis bars make a BIG difference.

I installed the rear only and tested before I put on the front bar. The rear bar is added to the OEM rear suspension, it's not a replacement bar (thus the small size).

When I threw the car into corners with the Hotchkis rear bar (and the OEM front bar), the rear end would slide out. The bar makes a huge difference. Too much oversteer! It's fun to slide the rear, and power out of the corners sideways, but I need a well-balanced car for track/slalom.

After I added the front Hotchkis bar, the car seems well-balanced, and there is SIGNIFICANTLY less body roll. The handling is much tighter.

Keep in mind, I already had JIC Magic suspension before the Hotchkiss install. The JIC suspension didn't fix the body roll. It definitely needed the bars.

I'll review the handling in more detail as soon as I can.

-Pete

 

if you know how to drive, a little bit of oversteer in a FWD is a good thing.

Ive yet to drive a Hotchkis equipped xB so I cannot comment on their set. I have a Whiteline rear bar now and Im still contemplating whether or not I want to get just the Hotchkis front bar to see how it handles.

 

I hear you. But it does not make engineering sense to me unless there is something else adding to your oversteer condition. Diameter make a huge diference in the stiffness of the bar.....Diameter^4. I have a Progressive rear sway with the same basic design as the Hotchkis. The bar is 22mm. Hotchkis is 1/2" or 12.4mm. The stiffness difference is ~10 to 1. The Progress sway and setup I have is pretty balanced. A little oversteer, a little understeer depending on the situation. No crazy oversteer. I find it hard to beleive that addong this small bar can have such an impact. That's not so say it didn't, but could it be something else (tire low in pressure for example).

 

[quote="jomo"]The Hotchkis rear bar is a solid bar. Most likely, an add on 22mm rear bar is not solid, thus, you can't compare diameters. I got my bars direct from Hotchkis and I was impressed with their facility. They also offered me installation, but I like to do my own work. My impression is that they have good engineering in their products.

My tire pressures are extremely accurate. I have a good quality gauge, air tank and compressor. I do anesthesia for a living, so I'm usually quite meticulous. My tires are new, and I'm running 35psi front and 33psi rear until I can see how the tires are wearing.

I think one of the reasons my car responded strongly to the bars is because my JIC suspension is set VERY STIFF.

-Pete

 

Now that may explain some of it. Your revised suspension setup.

Anyhow, there are a ton of posibilities. My only contention is that the Hotchkis rear sway is a mild difference. Your setup can be contributing to the oversteer you are seeing. Stiff rear springs can induce oversteer.

By the way, the rear sways (TRD, Whiteline, Progress) are solid. They are heavy. The only hollow sway I am aware of is the front Hotchkis.

 

Can't speak for the TRD or Whiteline, but the 22mm Progress RSB is a 7/8" diameter solid steel round bar. Very heavy and stiff.

I don't remember seeing a stock/factory RSB on my box when I installed the Progress. I will look again.

 

There is one......It is inside the torsion beam. Take a look at the pictures above. Note that this is an "add on" by Toyota is a beam stiffener just like all the other rear sways. This is because the torsional stiffness of this beam was designed for the Echo, not the XA or XB.

 

^^Copy that, Bro! Thanks for the info.

 

You're right and you haven't heard about the front bars because the stock front bar is more than sufficient and only needs the end links upgraded to polyurethane bushings. Then by adding just the rear bar you will have optimum handling.

I added the rear Whiteline bar to the upgraded stock front bar and am totally satisfied with the way it handles now. It's like 200% better than the original stock set-up.

I'm surprised Hotchkiss even still sells both bars seing how the front one isn't really needed. It does look pretty in red tho.