Air Suspension Information
05-14-2004, 04:32 PM
#62
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lancaster,CA
Posts: 24
hey man wrong pic.thats the pic from the FIRST day i got it.thats bone stock with 10 miles on it.dont imberess me.hahaha.that was my buddy askin those questions.hes racking his brain trying to figure out a _____in way to drop it even more than we got now.and yours is low.great job Eric
we got a few ideas but not sure. I'll get my new pics up there with my new rims too.check under project cars too.
thanks guys, peace out......
we got a few ideas but not sure. I'll get my new pics up there with my new rims too.check under project cars too.
thanks guys, peace out......
05-15-2004, 12:35 AM
#64
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by NuEraGraphiXB
hey man wrong pic.thats the pic from the FIRST day i got it.thats bone stock with 10 miles on it.dont imberess me.hahaha.that was my buddy askin those questions.hes racking his brain trying to figure out a _____in way to drop it even more than we got now.and yours is low.great job Eric
we got a few ideas but not sure. I'll get my new pics up there with my new rims too.check under project cars too.
thanks guys, peace out......
we got a few ideas but not sure. I'll get my new pics up there with my new rims too.check under project cars too.
thanks guys, peace out......
05-15-2004, 01:13 AM
#65
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: south o.c.
Posts: 22
This is my first post so I'll do it right. Just got the xb bagged and wanted to show all of you. Thanks for all the info that helped us get this far.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4286873181
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4286873181
05-18-2004, 02:52 PM
#67
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SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC (L.A.)
Posts: 1,881
FYI. Airlift says it will have a kit out this year before SEMA. I don't know much about them, but they sell bolt on air kits for lots of imports.
www.airliftcompany.com
www.airliftcompany.com
05-20-2004, 10:55 PM
#68
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SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Yucaipa, California
Posts: 100
i talked to the hack shack b4 sema last year, and they said that they had a complete bolt on kit with billet aluminum brackets, really nice stuff, but i didnt have the cash, so we just went with springs. i would steer clear of the aim garbage, i broke two of those cylinders in a week.
05-21-2004, 03:28 AM
#69
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Team N.V.S.
Team N.V.S.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: sacramento
Posts: 110
Working for Fender Bender International and having a Scion that isn't bagged is a daily dilemma for me. I just haven't been ready to void warranties and risk being stuck somewhere! No matter how good your parts are, or how good your install is, you WILL have a failure that will leave you without air at some point. Being that I'm in the middle of the air scene every day, and own a bagged truck, I would love to share some pointers that can hopefully help others in their quest for draggin' Scions!
1. Do NOT use copper for your air line! Copper will "work harden" meaning it becomes brittle as it is bent over time- this includes the vibration of just driving down the road! If you want to hard-line your system, use stainless steel- way more money, but it will outlast the vehicle!
2. Use only DOT approved line and fittings! Our shop prefers to use compression fittings over push connect, because you get a more solid connection that can't slip with higher temps and pressures. However, SMC, Norgren, and Parker all have quality push connect fittings that are decent, too. DOT air line is NOT the stuff you find at Home Depot! It has fibers woven into it that give it strength up to 500+ psi!
3. MacPherson strut cars put a tremendous side load on air cylinders. I've seen cheaper cylinders snap in less than a week when used in a front end like ours! Make sure the cylinders you use have a very thick shaft and some kind of pivot where the shaft meets the piston, so it can turn when the wheels turn... EricM, I'm not sure the SMCs are rated for that? I'm wonderin if that's why they creak and crack your upper strut tower? Not sure, but it sounds consistent with what I've experienced... Brisland's Customs makes an air cylinder that we've used on a few vehicles, and while they're expensive, they are designed for extreme duty. www.brislands.com
4. Eric M. has the same birthday as me- Happy birthday!
5. Thomas has the most reliable pumps on the market, period. Viair offers some with better performance, but their warranty is nonexistent and replacement parts aren't available! FBI does NOT recommend or sell Viair pumps for these reasons. Thomas Industries has been around since the 40's, and are made in the good ol' US of A. We stock several of their products, and are very happy with them.
6. While a water separator will help remove some water from the system, it won't get it all. It's better to have a drain in the bottom of the tank that you can empty periodically. BTW, bags, valves, and cylinders these days aren't very sensitive to water, but the tank can rust from the inside out and those rust particles can mess things up!
AirLift, Air Ride Technologies, and others are developing strut bags for the xB for summer releases- Air Lift told me they dropped development on the Saturn kits for our beloved Scions! Just like it oughta be!
I have about 6 years of experience with this airbaggin' stuff, and it's my job to be in the know, so feel free to ask me if you want to know- we'll get a whole encylopedia of information by the time this thread has run its course!
-Phil
1. Do NOT use copper for your air line! Copper will "work harden" meaning it becomes brittle as it is bent over time- this includes the vibration of just driving down the road! If you want to hard-line your system, use stainless steel- way more money, but it will outlast the vehicle!
2. Use only DOT approved line and fittings! Our shop prefers to use compression fittings over push connect, because you get a more solid connection that can't slip with higher temps and pressures. However, SMC, Norgren, and Parker all have quality push connect fittings that are decent, too. DOT air line is NOT the stuff you find at Home Depot! It has fibers woven into it that give it strength up to 500+ psi!
3. MacPherson strut cars put a tremendous side load on air cylinders. I've seen cheaper cylinders snap in less than a week when used in a front end like ours! Make sure the cylinders you use have a very thick shaft and some kind of pivot where the shaft meets the piston, so it can turn when the wheels turn... EricM, I'm not sure the SMCs are rated for that? I'm wonderin if that's why they creak and crack your upper strut tower? Not sure, but it sounds consistent with what I've experienced... Brisland's Customs makes an air cylinder that we've used on a few vehicles, and while they're expensive, they are designed for extreme duty. www.brislands.com
4. Eric M. has the same birthday as me- Happy birthday!
5. Thomas has the most reliable pumps on the market, period. Viair offers some with better performance, but their warranty is nonexistent and replacement parts aren't available! FBI does NOT recommend or sell Viair pumps for these reasons. Thomas Industries has been around since the 40's, and are made in the good ol' US of A. We stock several of their products, and are very happy with them.
6. While a water separator will help remove some water from the system, it won't get it all. It's better to have a drain in the bottom of the tank that you can empty periodically. BTW, bags, valves, and cylinders these days aren't very sensitive to water, but the tank can rust from the inside out and those rust particles can mess things up!
AirLift, Air Ride Technologies, and others are developing strut bags for the xB for summer releases- Air Lift told me they dropped development on the Saturn kits for our beloved Scions! Just like it oughta be!
I have about 6 years of experience with this airbaggin' stuff, and it's my job to be in the know, so feel free to ask me if you want to know- we'll get a whole encylopedia of information by the time this thread has run its course!
-Phil
05-21-2004, 02:57 PM
#70
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SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 273
The box looks good Phil.
You work at FBI? cool, How's Steve and Kelly? I haven't seen them in about 4 years.
I totally understand your delimea.. Looking at my bodydropped truck, and remembering how fun it was to daily drive a vehicle on air.
glad to see someone mention brislands, they make the best cylinders IMO.. Mac strut application or not, they are the only one's I'd reccomend.
<-- ViAir fan.. SOrry, I've just burnt up way too many Thompson 315 in my life.
tanks - they make tanks that are ceramic coated (or powder coated) inside and out.
water seperators are great, because some valves over time stick due to passing water.. Oiling the valve sometimes keeps this from happening.
I can't wait to see some of the other manufacures bring out air kits for these cars.
Although, I don't see how any bag/strut kit will get as low as cylinders (up front).
You work at FBI? cool, How's Steve and Kelly? I haven't seen them in about 4 years.
I totally understand your delimea.. Looking at my bodydropped truck, and remembering how fun it was to daily drive a vehicle on air.
glad to see someone mention brislands, they make the best cylinders IMO.. Mac strut application or not, they are the only one's I'd reccomend.
<-- ViAir fan.. SOrry, I've just burnt up way too many Thompson 315 in my life.
tanks - they make tanks that are ceramic coated (or powder coated) inside and out.
water seperators are great, because some valves over time stick due to passing water.. Oiling the valve sometimes keeps this from happening.
I can't wait to see some of the other manufacures bring out air kits for these cars.
Although, I don't see how any bag/strut kit will get as low as cylinders (up front).
05-26-2004, 02:24 PM
#71
Senior Member
DeepSouth Scions
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 260
Steez man!
Nice stance!How about some details?Did you use bags or struts up front?
I have been really thinking about air but am still undecided.
Having a few cars in the past with hydraulics,Im not sure if I want to deal with it.
I have never owned air.But I have seen allot of setups and can understand their engineering.Pretty reliable from what I gather.
Hydraulics have allot of things that wear out fast and can go wrong.No to mention leaks and charging the batteries.It gets old really fast.But the looks you get from onlookers when you 3 wheel is crazy!
I may be looking for am air setup that is just a slow setup that wont tear my little box apart.
Nice stance!How about some details?Did you use bags or struts up front?
I have been really thinking about air but am still undecided.
Having a few cars in the past with hydraulics,Im not sure if I want to deal with it.
I have never owned air.But I have seen allot of setups and can understand their engineering.Pretty reliable from what I gather.
Hydraulics have allot of things that wear out fast and can go wrong.No to mention leaks and charging the batteries.It gets old really fast.But the looks you get from onlookers when you 3 wheel is crazy!
I may be looking for am air setup that is just a slow setup that wont tear my little box apart.
05-28-2004, 05:50 PM
#72
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SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 273
juice.. now there's a topic I figured would make it's way into the forum
juice on a mac strut application makes sense. You'll be able to get lower, without alot of difficulty in setup. The cylinders will never break, and imagine the lift, I think you could run a slinder 10" all the way around? (ok maybe an 8 up front, but making a 10 work would be sweet). 4x4 box.
juice has come along way now. you have accumulators to smooth out the ride, and believe me they work, 4 batteries, keep it at 24volts, on 2 pumps, and if you don't play around alot, you probably wont have to charge for like 2 months.
go to a single pump/5 dump setup and your time between charges would increase big time.
once the setup is installed right, it's very clean. yea I do admit seals blow sometimes, tanks expand (explode) if your fluid level isn't right. there is some maintenence, but there is with air too, mainly inspection so that nothing will go worng while you are driving. plus waiting to let air fill the tank so you can lift up.
back to juice, There are things that will help out in these areas, like hard line, and blow proof seals..
like anything: installed right, I think you would be happy.
I'd like to see a juice box.
juice on a mac strut application makes sense. You'll be able to get lower, without alot of difficulty in setup. The cylinders will never break, and imagine the lift, I think you could run a slinder 10" all the way around? (ok maybe an 8 up front, but making a 10 work would be sweet). 4x4 box.
juice has come along way now. you have accumulators to smooth out the ride, and believe me they work, 4 batteries, keep it at 24volts, on 2 pumps, and if you don't play around alot, you probably wont have to charge for like 2 months.
go to a single pump/5 dump setup and your time between charges would increase big time.
once the setup is installed right, it's very clean. yea I do admit seals blow sometimes, tanks expand (explode) if your fluid level isn't right. there is some maintenence, but there is with air too, mainly inspection so that nothing will go worng while you are driving. plus waiting to let air fill the tank so you can lift up.
back to juice, There are things that will help out in these areas, like hard line, and blow proof seals..
like anything: installed right, I think you would be happy.
I'd like to see a juice box.
05-29-2004, 12:45 AM
#73
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: south o.c.
Posts: 22
Thanks for the props! Well I will tell you what I know which won't be in to much detail cause I'm still new to this. Up front I have cylinders and the rear is bags. Everything is mounted underneath the car which saves all the space in the trunk for other things 
The cylinders are nice cause they don't need to much air considering all I have is a 3 gallon tank and 1 compressor. The only problem with the cylinders is that I have 18's and there is a very fine line between rubbing and being to stiff. No issues with the rear at all.
Now my only major concern is the push connectors. Within the first few weeks of having it done the passenger side front air line came off. At least it was parked 'cause with my wheels there would have been plastic everywhere. But it was an easy repair. I am looking into getting steel braided lines for some peace of mind.
The cylinders are nice cause they don't need to much air considering all I have is a 3 gallon tank and 1 compressor. The only problem with the cylinders is that I have 18's and there is a very fine line between rubbing and being to stiff. No issues with the rear at all.
Now my only major concern is the push connectors. Within the first few weeks of having it done the passenger side front air line came off. At least it was parked 'cause with my wheels there would have been plastic everywhere. But it was an easy repair. I am looking into getting steel braided lines for some peace of mind.
05-29-2004, 04:24 PM
#75
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: south o.c.
Posts: 22
My offset is 45, but thats not the problem. The problem is that the tire rests right on the inner fender, so when I'm aired out the wheel's not turning and barely rolling. So you can imagine what would happen if a connection came loose. I now understand why Eric runs smaller wheels.
05-30-2004, 10:28 PM
#76
Senior Member
SL Member
Team N.V.S.
Team N.V.S.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: sacramento
Posts: 110
I finally talked myself into it! The rear of Boxzila is now bagged, and I must say it was easier than I expected. For the time being I'm only running 1 gallon of air with a tiny compressor, but it's enough to lift fully on one hit of the switch! I've put about 40 miles on it so far, with no ill effects, so if things go well I'll probably start making brackets for anyone interested. Now, to talk myself into the front! Here are some pics with the rear dropped- it rolls with no rubbing at this height, too!
The front is running with stock struts and Ground Control coilovers for now- this is the setting I drive at, but it can go about 1-1/2" lower for show purposes. I'll post more as I get the tank and compressor mount done.
-Phil and Vicki
The front is running with stock struts and Ground Control coilovers for now- this is the setting I drive at, but it can go about 1-1/2" lower for show purposes. I'll post more as I get the tank and compressor mount done.
-Phil and Vicki
05-31-2004, 12:06 AM
#77
Senior Member
DeepSouth Scions
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 260
SWEET DUDE!
Give us some details on the rear cups or adaptors you used.
Thats one thing this whole thread had lacked!
It looks good!
What company components did you use?
Lets see some more setup pics!!
Please??lol!
Give us some details on the rear cups or adaptors you used.
Thats one thing this whole thread had lacked!
It looks good!
What company components did you use?
Lets see some more setup pics!!
Please??lol!
05-31-2004, 12:20 AM
#78
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SL Member
Team N.V.S.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: sacramento
Posts: 110
I'll be down at the shop tomorrow tying up some loose ends, and I'll try to take some pics then. The rear is set up just like eric m's, from the look of things, with the bag mounted "upside down" from how it would normally be. I offset the plates just a hair to keep them from rubbing on the swingarm itself. I chose not to cut any of the spring pocket, so coils can be reinstalled later if I so choose. I'll get the part number for the shocks I bought, too- they are 2" shorter than stock to allow for this drop. Thanks!
-Phil
-Phil
