I was just wondering how it was for everyone when they bought there new ride. I have heard alot about the new Scion Buying experince. I wasn't that impressed with it. I love the car, but I didn't see much difference in buying it from any other car. The fixed price was nice, but I think they still have a long ways to go before I would actually enjoy doing that again.

Yes I did. They even threw in a car care package complete with a bucket, wax, sponges, tire foam, and a few other goodies. I had a great experiance at my Scion dealer :D .

yeah, absolutely!! it was painless, hassle and pressure free. the salesman even parked every different color i wanted to see under natural light, yellow lights etc so i could see the color variations at night :p

Are you guys kidding me, god i hated my experience at Longo with Verone...

haha, j/k--totally hassle free.

They actually had my car done 3 days before they had told me they would have it ready...lucky me, being the eager beaver that I am went and found it done!

I still hate those Toyo reps who try to cut you off at the pass when trying to get to the Scion portion though.

Yes I did. They even threw in a car care package complete with a bucket, wax, sponges, tire foam, and a few other goodies. I had a great experiance at my Scion dealer :D .

Yo, what da hell is diss ... you getten free-bees up dere in Nyork? Man dat aint right. Seriously Munch, your dealer gave what $30 worth of stuff to you, did you have to ask for it, or was it just tossed in cause the dealer had a crush on you? :lol:

It was a big hassle at first. Finding a dealer with cars in stock, then telling him to leave on the stock rims instead of forcing his $2000 aftermarket rims and tires or it was a no sale. Gotta hand it to the salesman, he stuck to his guns.
We ended up knowing precisely what we wanted and purchased it at window sticker at another dealership. I had to go back tho cuz they hadn't put on my back bumper skirt. They compensated with free fill-ups every time I went by.

My dealer drove 1hr each way to trade his color for a blue one (for me) and this was after hours on his own time. Granted he only was given 2 xB's and 1 xA that month but that is REAL service. Never bugged me about upgrading but did take his sweet ___ time doing the paper work. Poor man was in his 70s.

Please let me vent. No matter WHAT they say, there is no such thing as a NO-HAGGLE policy. Saturn tried this years ago, and they backed down. Scion may or may not, but if they do, it'll be quiet. I'm 40+, and just bought a new xB. They tried the line: "we have a no-haggle policy so kids buying them feel like they are being treated fair, and paying the same price as the next guy". Now if you fall for this crap, you deserve to pay more. EVERYTHING is negociable. Life 'ain't always fair. In my case, it was easier because I had a trade... instead of lopping off $ from my car's sales price, they ADDED value to my trade. I didn't want a spoiler ($400 piece of worthless plastic), but they wanted to sell me the car on the lot, not let me 'order one' and walk out without a big sale... so miraculously my trade was increased in value by $200 (yea, I did split the cost with them, but they were already paying too much for my trade... ~hehe). What helped me: I got a green salesguy that had never made a sale... and he was desparate. I had my trade emptyed and ready to go. I had cash in my pocket, but was willing to finance (as long as there was no prepayment hit). I had a stellar credit score. As long as they hit my numbers and had the car I wanted in stock, the deal was most likely gonna happen. Based on the numbers, the delta between invoice and retail on my xB was about 700. Yes, the dealer probably has a 3% holdback, but you gotta give them this, unless the car is a slow mover. So, NO, I didn't get a discount on my purchase price, but I DID get about $550 more than my trade booked out at. So, the dealer got the holdback, and about $150, plus any incentive from writing the loan (which will be paid-off in 90 days). Not too bad on a new-hot model for a walk-in customer. You will have the potential to do BETTER if you have a trade, when you buy a Scion. If you have no trade, I'm not sure how it'd go. YES, I am sure some of you may have done better... Good for you. I just wanted to relay my experience to help other cheap bastards like me get the car as cheap as possible. It's a game to me. Thanks for letting me vent. PS: I'll help anybody in OC-CA get a similar deal... E-me.

THERE IS NO HOLDBACK ON SCIONS.

Other than that I reserve the right to keep my mouth closed about that last post or risk getting myself in trouble.

Cut and pasted!! (bottom of invoice)

Retail Dealer Total
Vehicle Base Model ..........................: $14480.00 $******.00 $14480.00
50 State Emissions .........................
Total Accessories ...........................:
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 485.00
TDA .........................................: $ 0.00 (no entry here)
Gasoline ....................................: $ 6.00
---------- ---------
Total .......................................: $******.00 $14965.00

NO DRIVER INFO FOR UNIT


(don't see any holdback in there) :roll:

We have to pay between 250 and 400 bucks in dealer fees.

____es me off, cause ya still have to shop around. And often they are not forthcoming about them until you are signing paperwork.

I speak from experience, left and went to another place with the 250 fee.

paul

Yes I did. They even threw in a car care package complete with a bucket, wax, sponges, tire foam, and a few other goodies. I had a great experiance at my Scion dealer :D .

Yo, what da hell is diss ... you getten free-bees up dere in Nyork? Man dat aint right. Seriously Munch, your dealer gave what $30 worth of stuff to you, did you have to ask for it, or was it just tossed in cause the dealer had a crush on you? :lol:
:lol: :lol: It was tossed tro me with my car keys. I gotta admit the girl that showed me everything about my car was hot as hell. I go back to the dealer just to say hi every now and then :D . Gotta love them college chicks :wink: .

Damn, they boned you for $6!

Also, in reply to the other posts... I did not know if there was a holdback, or not. I suspected NOT. That makes my $100 over invoice deal that much more sweet! To those of you that will say that the dealer wouldn't have sold it at this margin, please understand: if they are stupid when assigninging a value to your trade, they won't know they are losing $ until the deal is done and gone. ~hehe

You won't see Holdback on any invoice... it is a perk paid to the dealer by corporate directly... The dealer gets the money, just not from the buyer. Corporate gets it from their profit of the car.

THERE IS NO HOLDBACK ON SCIONS.

Somebody had better tell Edmunds about that. They show a holdback of 2% of the base MSRP on Scions. That figure has been on the Edmunds site for a long time, so there has been ample opportunity to correct it if it were wrong.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

Cut and pasted!! (bottom of invoice)

Retail Dealer Total
Vehicle Base Model ..........................: $14480.00 $******.00 $14480.00
50 State Emissions .........................
Total Accessories ...........................:
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 485.00
TDA .........................................: $ 0.00 (no entry here)
Gasoline ....................................: $ 6.00
---------- ---------
Total .......................................: $******.00 $14965.00

NO DRIVER INFO FOR UNIT


(don't see any holdback in there) :roll:

Since when has holdback _ever_ been on the invoice?

I've had Scion, Honda, and Subaru dealers all tell me that they don't get any holdback, all with a straight face. Seeing as how they are invested in selling the car at the highest possible price, I'm not surprised.

George

I had to vote "no" on this one. It was difficult to find a dealer who wanted to simply sell me a stock unaccessorized car for the advertised price in a reasonable amount of time. They all wanted to play the "make them invest time" game so that when the deal-killers came up (junk fees, forced accessories, etc.) I would be pressured to give in just to have the ordeal over with. The fourth dealer I visited finally produced.

That was before the "feeding frenzy". It's probably worse now!

George

You won't see Holdback on any invoice... it is a perk paid to the dealer by corporate directly... The dealer gets the money, just not from the buyer. Corporate gets it from their profit of the car.

Why would you not see holdback on the invoice? You seem to know everything. :shock: :roll: For your information on every invoice that the dealership gets from the manufacture, be it a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc, right on the invoice it shows the hold back on there. It will be designated with abbreviations or just state holdback. So far I have been really impressed with your knowledge of the auto industry, most of it has come from books of people with the same vast knowledge you have. :roll: I am about the same age as you. I have bought alot of cars since 15 years old when I paid cash for a new z28 camaro. I think you have only what you have read and the cars that you bought for knowledge which is pretty small in comparision to having worked on both sides of the desk. :)

I give up.

Trying to give all the information we can and still getting the same ( you are all con artists routine).

You won't see Holdback on any invoice... it is a perk paid to the dealer by corporate directly... The dealer gets the money, just not from the buyer. Corporate gets it from their profit of the car.

Why would you not see holdback on the invoice?

Because holdback is there to refund the dealer for the financing cost of having the car on the lot. I've never seen it on the invoice, but then again dealers have so many pieces of paper that they call the "invoice" I really have no way of knowing what particular document you are talking about.

The last car I negotiated, a Mercury Sable (for my Dad, not for me!), didn't have holdback listed on the invoice, but the dealer readily acknowledged it. After all, he was selling the car for below the invoice price and he had to make his money from somewhere!

You seem to know everything. :shock: :roll: For your information on every invoice that the dealership gets from the manufacture, be it a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc, right on the invoice it shows the hold back on there. It will be designated with abbreviations or just state holdback. So far I have been really impressed with your knowledge of the auto industry, most of it has come from books of people with the same vast knowledge you have. :roll: I am about the same age as you. I have bought alot of cars since 15 years old when I paid cash for a new z28 camaro. I think you have only what you have read and the cars that you bought for knowledge which is pretty small in comparision to having worked on both sides of the desk. :)

I've noted that many (not all) people "on the other side of the desk" don't really know much about their business or the vehicles they sell. There isn't exactly a stringent education requirement for that job. As long as they can push the tin everything's fine with the dealer.

No Hassle for me. I got it from CarMaxScionLaurel, so historically they have that No Hassle thing. So even if I wasn't going to buy a SkeeOn (other choice being the Matrix or Echo or Sienna :shock: :? ), they wont budge on the price.

holdback is a scam guys, nothing different than msrp vs invoice. sorry to burst your bubble :)

My experience was excellent.

It took about 45 minutes total to decide on the car, get financed, call GEICO and get insured, sign paperwork and drive off the lot.

Zero pressure to buy accessories. I chose the XM radio antenna hookup and the rear bumper cover on my own..

The pure pricing scheme is not a scam. I've bought 4 new cars and helped 3 friends buy theirs and I know what negotiating a car deal is like and I'm very good at it. However, I won't go to the extreme of breaking the salesman's balls over nickel and dime stuff like splitting $150 or demanding free floor mats.

IMO people who do that are just as much a-holes as the smarmy salesmen. The dealer and salesmen are entitled to make SOME money, OK? Don't be an ___. If you're smart and friendly but firm you can get a fair shake without splitting hairs and giving yourself an ulcer. You pay $15,16,17,000 for a car and you are going to spend 40 minutes arguing over whether the dealer should give you a car bra at his cost? I mean WTF? Get a life.

My experience with the Scion people was nothing less than mind blowing. There wasn't a minute of unpleasantness. No needless waiting. I had the full attention of both the sales manager and my salesman the whole time, no running off to keep another customer on the hook and leaving me sitting there. They were friendly and straightforward and filled out nearly everything on the paperwork for me, including my address from my license leaving me nothing to do but read and sign. The car was ready quickly and I went on my way. The salesman and manager walked with me outside to make sure everything was cool with the car, then the sales guy, who seemed as excited about my car as I was asked for the manager to take a picture of us both with the car!

Where else would you get that kind of treatment? It's almost incomprehensible. Compared to the usual way of doing business, this was a pleasure. I'd do it again tommorow.

I can't imagine Saturn did it this well and even if they came close, guess what. At the end of the deal, you're driving home a Saturn so you got screwed no matter what you paid. Haha

i didn't get hassled by the Scion guy.... now the toyota guy trying to tell me that an echo was just as good or better than an xB???? whatever... In my unique experience, i bought a car in San Diego but i was actually in Norfolk when the contract went down.. hmmmm.... sounds like no hassle to me... matter fact i'm taking my orange box and going home... oh crap i'm still in VA.....AGHHH!!!!!!

You won't see Holdback on any invoice... it is a perk paid to the dealer by corporate directly... The dealer gets the money, just not from the buyer. Corporate gets it from their profit of the car.

Why would you not see holdback on the invoice?

Because holdback is there to refund the dealer for the financing cost of having the car on the lot. I've never seen it on the invoice, but then again dealers have so many pieces of paper that they call the "invoice" I really have no way of knowing what particular document you are talking about.

The last car I negotiated, a Mercury Sable (for my Dad, not for me!), didn't have holdback listed on the invoice, but the dealer readily acknowledged it. After all, he was selling the car for below the invoice price and he had to make his money from somewhere!

You seem to know everything. :shock: :roll: For your information on every invoice that the dealership gets from the manufacture, be it a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc, right on the invoice it shows the hold back on there. It will be designated with abbreviations or just state holdback. So far I have been really impressed with your knowledge of the auto industry, most of it has come from books of people with the same vast knowledge you have. :roll: I am about the same age as you. I have bought alot of cars since 15 years old when I paid cash for a new z28 camaro. I think you have only what you have read and the cars that you bought for knowledge which is pretty small in comparision to having worked on both sides of the desk. :)

I've noted that many (not all) people "on the other side of the desk" don't really know much about their business or the vehicles they sell. There isn't exactly a stringent education requirement for that job. As long as they can push the tin everything's fine with the dealer.


George,

You are completely right! That is one of the sad things of this profession. I have seen alot of people come in go in the auto industry. Alot of sales people come and go without really trying to learn their product and their profession, that brings up where customers feel like they are being lied to, etc. These sale people( not professionals) would take the time to really learn the products and the business. If sales people learned the business they can really help people with good financial advice and product information. When you do that the sales career can be really fun and rewarding. This goes for any sales person no matter what you sell. :D

sales people lie to sell....just like the sunroof that only takes a day to put in....i asked him how long it would take....he said only a day...after i paid for the car i went to make an appointment to have it done....3 days minimum.....dont trust salesmen....they lie

i was also told the price wasnt being haggled cause its a new production model and toyota is losing money on them....toyota town of stockton...dont go there

My experience was great, granted I allready knew what I wanted and what I was going to get but the experience was great. Went to New Rochelle Scion in NY and the sales guy was really helpful. As someone said, he was actually as excited as I was to get the car. Went into the dealer at 10AM drove out with my XB at 1:30.

My sales guy actually showed me his XB and let me borrow it while mine was getting cleaned and a few accesories that were extra were removed.

Once I got my car, he called me later that night to see if everything was fine and how I was dealing with all the attention I was getting from my box.. :D

I went back this past saturday to get my spoiler and fog lights installed and once again everyone was helpful and very friendly. A few guys up here in the Tri-State (NY-NJ-CT) area are trying to get a club together, told my sales guy and he was thrilled about it. We went spoke with the GM and he said that any time we want to meet in the dealer he would close the parking lot at night, provide the food, drinks, music and some freebes.....How can you beat that?

Overall my experience was great and I give Scion three thumbs up!

What an absolutely fascinating discussion. I've been in the car business for over 10 years and have been playing at Edmunds Town Hall for nearly 5 years and I don't recall ever witnessing this level of distrust. That's sad to me because most Scion dealers really are trying to do this whole thing right.

1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.

2. There currently are no "factory to dealer incentives." This is a term that really means a second holdback and manufactureres put it on cars that are not selling fast.

3. There sure as hell shouldn't be any negotiations. Even if you have a trade, this is true. Think about it for a moment, if they can mysteriously add money to your car, what makes you think they can't add a few dollars more later and shaft the used car department and you over the value? Dealers are just as likely to "under allow" as they are to "overallow" on a trade.

4. The Scion is a perfect opportunity for the consumer to do what I have always argued they should be doing in the first place: Shop for the right dealer and not the price. Because most dealership's pure price is the MSRP (at least it is in my area), find a dealer that does things your way. You should be able to enjoy buying a car. You are not getting a root canal and you shouldn't dread car buying. Shop for the dealer that understands how you want to be treated.

I still hate those Toyo reps who try to cut you off at the pass when trying to get to the Scion portion though.

LOL So TRUE!!! :twisted:

What an absolutely fascinating discussion. I've been in the car business for over 10 years and have been playing at Edmunds Town Hall for nearly 5 years and I don't recall ever witnessing this level of distrust. That's sad to me because most Scion dealers really are trying to do this whole thing right.

1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.

In that case, you should be after Edmunds to correct their figure of 2% holdback on Scions.

I doubt that they would want to have incorrect information on their site and would not hesitate to correct it if a longtime Edmunds Town Hall member brought the error to their attention.

In the meantime, I believe that Edmunds is a more impartial source than a dealer for this sort of information.

I just went there told them I wanted my car and they said it will be here in 2 weeks and I was like"word"

I had a good experience here in New Jersey. I walked in told him that I wanted the RS 1.0 with Fog lights and he ordered it. No prob. I did want floor mats and the rear bumper applique but decided to just get them after I saved a few bucks for the car. The dealership I went to is pretty cool first 3 oil changes free then every other service is free not a bad deal ( I'll probably still change my own oil though) I asked him if he could though in the floor mats and he said he could loose his dealership over it. I didn't press the issue, wherther I believe him ot not is another story. All in all a pretty nice guy that made me feel pretty good about buying a car from his dealership.
I hope this snow ends before my lava gets here. Oh well, it's a good excuse for having the stock wheels on the car ( Those are my winter wheels, heh)

My dealer went out of his way to take options off a fully loaded Scion xB RS 1.0 a day after it was already allocated to the dealer loaded.

He said it would be difficult, but he got it done.

So now I wait for the car to get released from port..

these next few days will seem like months...

What an absolutely fascinating discussion. I've been in the car business for over 10 years and have been playing at Edmunds Town Hall for nearly 5 years and I don't recall ever witnessing this level of distrust. That's sad to me because most Scion dealers really are trying to do this whole thing right.

1. The is no holdback on the Scion. Invoice is really the actual gross cost of the vehicle. Don't get me started on the gross cost versus net cost becuase you'll never get me to shut up.

In that case, you should be after Edmunds to correct their figure of 2% holdback on Scions.

I doubt that they would want to have incorrect information on their site and would not hesitate to correct it if a longtime Edmunds Town Hall member brought the error to their attention.

In the meantime, I believe that Edmunds is a more impartial source than a dealer for this sort of information.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but could you give me a link to that information? I've been searching through Edmund's pricing info on the Scion and I don't see any mention of holdback. Either I'm not looking in the right spot or they have removed it. Believe me, I'd be glad to contact Edmunds about this issue.

For the record, Edmunds is not infallible. They still claim the V6 Camry requires premium unleaded fuel. That has never been true but they post that year after year.

I definately had a no hassle/nohaggle experience. the only complaint i have is that I paid CASH for the car and they still made me fill out a credit app :?

Not trying to be a jerk here, but could you give me a link to that information? I've been searching through Edmund's pricing info on the Scion and I don't see any mention of holdback.

Two ways to find it.

Go to "Tips and Advice" on the Edmunds site and type "holdback" into the search box.

Or, go to Google and search on the word "holdback", The article is question is the top item.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

I went to three dealerships:

First one told me 'no hassle price' and did not have any 5-speeds in stock

Dealer #2 told me 'no hassle' and offered me only $500 for my car (which is too much already IMHO) but they dicked me around a little with things like the 19" TRD's saying they were under warrenty and the fact they wanted $350 to install them ____ed me off and again no 5-speeds for about 2-3 weeks he tells me.

Dealer #3 was very friendly and again was given the 'no hassle' BS BUT for some reason unknowing to anyone they offered me $2200 for my POS car and the kid was very laxed as me getting more options and was more than willing to let me leave with a bone stock xB.

While I do love to play the numbers game with crooked car salesman and always have I must say my Scion purchase was the LEAST stressful car sale I have EVER made, I still think there is some wiggle room in there somewhere but honestly at the price after my trade with the bumper applet, floor mats and cargo cover (12k and some change) so I am very happy with my overall experience.

What I think may end up happening is that in a few years they prices may go up and there may be a bit more wiggle room in the price as I am still not sure if Scion just beat this 'no hassle' price thing into the dealerships heads and it true or if it is just a new technique.

If you think about it the Scion is 'marketed' for the 35< crowd SO that means all these young people are getting familiar with the 'no hassle' policy they will be more custom to it when buying cars in the future as I know my dad is 'old school' and always nickel and dimes over everything (don't blame him) including floor mats and everything else and the 'no hassle' thing did not fly by him.

Either way it was a nice experience I would say 9/10

Two ways to find it.

Go to "Tips and Advice" on the Edmunds site and type "holdback" into the search box.

Or, go to Google and search on the word "holdback", The article is question is the top item.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

Wow. Thanks. That's a pretty big problem. I am not kidding that I will be contacting Edmunds, but in the mean time, you are more than welcome to call Toyota to verify that there is, in fact, no holdback on the Scion. There is also not a regional advertising fee that we have on everything else as well.

Its things like this that really frustrate me. Toyota is trying hard to create a consumer friendly process and many dealerships are following suit and trying to shed the image we've had for decades. Something like Edmund's making an error like this does nothing but set that back and create distrust.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Edmunds is a great information source- but it is hardly gospel. If you go to all of the sites (kbb, edmunds, inv dealers, consmr rpts) you will get diff info from each.

for the last time THERE IS NO HOLDBACK OR KICKBACKS ON SCIONS

Holdback is on every MANUFACTURER invoice, If I showed a paper that I said was the manuf invoice, and it wasn't- I'd have some lawsuits to deal with.

finally something good for the customer comes along, and you guys don't see it- scion wants to change that old car buying experience for good- and if it works- toyota will eventually follow, heck everyone will. Dealers are freaking out because of the internet- because now you have to earn business respectively. I am an internet manager for a toyota dealer, there are four of us, and we sell 80+ cars every month- no hassle, haggle, pressure - easy and HONEST. Suprisingly people don't mind paying for eceptional service and experience. I also will not work with customers like the 40 yr old above that says everything is neg, they can go give someone else brain damage- and if 10+ hours of your time is worth a couple $$$- more power to you.

I understand the car salesman stereotype- totally. But now there are a few of us out there trying to make it different- better. I respect every customer unless they give me a reason not to- and I expect the same in return.

sorry for the lenth guys- had to vent.

my deal was so Kosher !
They gave me way more $$$ than my trade in was worth, and they let me test drive the manual vs automatic, and it was easy... and fun...

I apologize in advance if I offend anyone here, however I have to add my 2 cents here...

as a salesperson (Scion Manager, Toyota sales, Inventory Manager here) I am so glad Scion has the Pure Price strategy... I'm tired of customers coming in and negotiating a deal down to $50 over invoice and then expecting to have $500 worth of stuff included... with Pure Price everything is out in the open (transparent)...if you want it, buy it... if you don't, that's your choice... this streamlines the whole process and makes it easier for everyone involved...

Damn, they boned you for $6! :shock:

Also, in reply to the other posts... I did not know if there was a holdback, or not. I suspected NOT. That makes my $100 over invoice deal that much more sweet! To those of you that will say that the dealer wouldn't have sold it at this margin, please understand: if they are stupid when assigninging a value to your trade, they won't know they are losing $ until the deal is done and gone. ~hehe

Brad,

How many other vehicles have you purchased where you DIDN'T get a full tank of gas on delivery? All Toyotas and Scions are required (by Toyota and Scion corporate) to be delivered with a full tank of gas... $6 for a full tank of gas?? who got boned? let's see... average price of gas here in NY $1.95 X 11 gallons = $21.45... hmmm... that's $15.45 free...

Unlike with other vehicles (Toyotas, etc) the Scions don't have a holdback built into the invoice... they may never have holdback, who knows... however, in all reality you did NOT get one over on the dealer, and you did NOT get your vehicle at $100 over invoice... perhaps the dealer checked the real money value of your car (what they could purchase a similar car for at an auction) and found that it was worth more than they originally thought... if they lose money on your car, that's the way the cookie crumbles (they might even MAKE money on your car...how sweet is that now??) :o

and as you stated in your earlier post, if you really didn't want the spoiler you would have waited for a vehicle to come in without one... I agree, you can do "better" if you have a trade, however the only way you can do "better" is by having a trade that is a) worth more than what you owe, or b) paid off with no closeout... that way the full trade value is taken off of the price of the Scion

Sorry for the rant... I'm done... :)

couldn't agree more-


funny that people love to talk about how much they paid for their house, and how cheap they got their car

I'd rather talk about how cheap I got my house... and how nice my car is...

Yes I did. They even threw in a car care package complete with a bucket, wax, sponges, tire foam, and a few other goodies. I had a great experiance at my Scion dealer :D .

Yo, what da hell is diss ... you getten free-bees up dere in Nyork? Man dat aint right. Seriously Munch, your dealer gave what $30 worth of stuff to you, did you have to ask for it, or was it just tossed in cause the dealer had a crush on you? :lol:
:lol: :lol: It was tossed tro me with my car keys. I gotta admit the girl that showed me everything about my car was hot as hell. I go back to the dealer just to say hi every now and then :D . Gotta love them college chicks :wink: .


sunrise toyota :twisted: am I right munch I got the goodies and the sweetie doing the demo.

I had a great experience at North County Scion in Anaheim, CA. They had the xB I wanted and my salesman actually talked me out of getting a couple accessories because he thought they were over priced. This was the best car buying experience I have ever had.

What gives here..
I'm tryingto buy a hot lava from a dealer in ATL.
he quoted me 16549.50 for an automatic.
I put down my 500.00 deposit.
I'll be tacking a bank check in hand to pick it up.
What I don't understand here is.. where did the xtra 604.50 come from??? :?:
Dealers...
Am I getting screwed here?
the car msrp = 14480
Delivery = 485
Hot lava package 980
That makes 15945 according to my math.
The dealer also told me I had to pay taxes on my own when I got plates.
I understand the HL is a special commodity, but am I gonna have to buy some vaseline before I take delivery??? :wink:

Edmunds is hardly gospel. There is no holdback on Scions, and holdback shows as a line item on every single Toyota vehicle (along with advertising.)

I am interested to know if the buyers who felt they got a "really good deal" financed or not, and if they know their percentage rate.

Mark aka Scion Sales

when i went to my local dealership (frontier toyota) :x i found their base price at the top of the sticker to be 14,480. now i thought that the base price was 13,680. so i went to another dealer about 10 min from home (hamer toyota) and found their base price at 13,680. so what is the base price. i ended up buying my xB from toyota of cerritos because no one had a camo man trans xB. awesome experience. drove over an hour but well worth it. i drove up they had my car washed and ready, i signed my paperwork, started my insurance and drove off in my car.


jerry.

Edmunds is hardly gospel. There is no holdback on Scions, and holdback shows as a line item on every single Toyota vehicle (along with advertising.)

I am interested to know if the buyers who felt they got a "really good deal" financed or not, and if they know their percentage rate.

Mark aka Scion Sales

If the info is incorrect, why hasn't Toyota, Scion. or their dealers corrected it in the 10 months the data has been there? It is hardly to Toyota's or Edmunds' advantage to have incorrect information out there. A month ago in this thread a Scion salesman who supposedly is a player on Edmunds indicated that he was going to get the site changed. It hasn't happened so far.

Edmunds may not be gospel, but they _are_ relatively imparial. I doubt that they would intentionally misreport something as important as holdback.

when i went to my local dealership (frontier toyota) :x i found their base price at the top of the sticker to be 14,480. now i thought that the base price was 13,680. so i went to another dealer about 10 min from home (hamer toyota) and found their base price at 13,680. so what is the base price. i ended up buying my xB from toyota of cerritos because no one had a camo man trans xB. awesome experience. drove over an hour but well worth it. i drove up they had my car washed and ready, i signed my paperwork, started my insurance and drove off in my car.

Being that they are in our slightly upscale "bedroom community", I'd expect that Frontier's price would be higher than dealers in the Valley. A lot of local yuppies don't bother to compare and consider the Valley to be another planet.

Despite their "buy local" advertising campaign, the SCV auto dealers don't seem to match the prices of the Valley dealers.

George

Yes, the dealer probably has a 3% holdback, but you gotta give them this, unless the car is a slow mover.
no holdback on scions, baby. 8)

They Gave me a new LoJack free of charge,,,,and tires for life.... 8)

Definitely a no haggle/ no hassle deal.
I created the xb I wanted on scion.com, printed out the summary sheet with accessories listed and a suggested retail price and gave it to a dealer at Price LeBlanc Toyota in Baton Rouge LA on January 24th (release date wasn't until Feb. 4th in Louisiana). On Feb. 4th I got the call my xb was in with all accessories installed and the final price was the exact price I printed off scion.com, NO CHANGES. I walked in, filled out the credit app, put 50% down, financed 50% and was out the door in less than an hour.

You can't argue thats hassle free! Now as far as price goes...I was willing to pay the price suggested by scion.com before I even went in to the dealer, so I didn't talk price with dealer. I payed exactly what I told them I was going to pay (the suggested retail from scion.com) and thats what I wanted.
Did I get the best price, I don't really know. I do know I paid a fair price for my xb, and that I feel the amount I paid was completely acceptable for the vehicle I drove off with.

Much love to James Marbrough at Price LeBlanc Baton Rouge LA, you definitely made my purchase no haggle/no hassle.

I don't know if they normally do this but my dealer filled the gas tank. There was and option online for 5 gallons $20. Oh plus I got the wheel locks for my rims and I didn't add those, of course maybe you get them free when you order 18's.
Stadium Scion
Tampa FL

Dude-
The difference in the base price of the cars you looked at is the difference between an automatic and a manual transmission. Take a look on Scion.Com. All the answers are there. Scion does not print different window stickers for cars that are sold in different towns. Please don't put much credence in what "George-nanobus" says. If you check out all of his posts, most of what he says is uneducated conjuncture. He sounds like what he accuses car dealers of being, uneducated liars who make stuff up to accomplish something. Check reliable sources, more than one, talk to people that you know and trust and if you don't know someone in the car business that you feel comfortable with, check with friends and family. The only thing worse than an ignorant car salesman is someone who doesn't know a thing about the car business but doesn't know that he doesn't know. Jeez I'm tired of idiots spewing crap about something they don't know a thing about. If you can't contribute something positive, productive or helpfull-don't post! It's not an obligation.

Set up an appointment for today with their internet manager, Andy Moore. I originally emailed him that I wanted a Polar White xB, 5-speed, with a spoiler. He responded that they didn't have them in stock, but it wouldn't be a problem ordering one if that's what I wanted.

Anyway, pulled in to the dealership and saw an RS 1.0 in front of the sales office. Thought that it was already sold because some guy was hanging all over it like it was his. I liked the color, but was disappointed that it was automatic. Anyway, Andy asked if I wanted to take it out for a drive, and I said yeah if it's still for sale.

After taking it out for a test drive though, man, my attitude changed. The automatic pulled into traffic without a problem, and I liked the color and accents on it. The spoiler was already there, and it had the lighting effects and 6-disc in dash (neither of which I would have bought separately).

So, after doing the numbers and everything, I went ahead and bought it today. After taxes/tags/etc, the cost came out to a few dozen short of $17K. My only complaint was the amount they offered for my trade-in: 2000 Impreza RS with 55K on it. They offered $7500 which wasn't enough for me... so I took it to CarMax and they offered me more. A little extra hassle, but at least I got an xB I liked and had a great sales experience. Worked with only the salesman--no finance guy trying to sell me any extra struff or hiding extra fees in there. Plus, they got me a lower interest rate than the 4.1% rate Toyota was offering, so I was happy. And, I didn't have to pay a premium like some dealers look like they're charging for the RS 1.0.

Dude-
...Please don't put much credence in what "George-nanobus" says. If you check out all of his posts, most of what he says is uneducated conjuncture.
In what way? Is it wrong to caution people, particularly first-time buyers, that there may be pitfalls in the car-buying process? Is it wrong to provide them with information and web resources to assist them in the purchase process?

BTW, if you've checked out _all_ of my posts then business must be _really_ slow! OTOH, I checked out all of yours in about 2 minutes.
He sounds like what he accuses car dealers of being, uneducated liars who make stuff up to accomplish something.
I have a bachelors' degree in mechanical engineering and have worked as an engineer in the automotive industry. Since you brought up education, what _are_ your qualifications?

And, of course, all car salesmen are scrupulously honest, right? They all know their products better than their enthusiast customers, and would _never_ "make stuff up" for customers? The salesman who told me how safe the xB is with its side air bags must have been an anomaly. Too bad that that he didn't spend more time reading his own brochures.

Car buyers, particularly newbies, need to realize that car dealers have a vested interest in giving them only the positive information regarding the purchase. Many (not all) salesmen hope that by the time the negative information comes out the customer will suck it up just to get the process over with. Many (not all) salesmen will bend the truth to make the sale. Scion dealers are no different than any other dealers in this regard. This is my experience, not conjecture.

When I bought my xB, I shopped at my local dealer first, then tried other dealers. Prices do vary because some dealers charge junk fees and others do not. Dealers are reluctant to reveal these fees before the customer is well into the purchase paperwork. This is my experience, not conjecture.
Check reliable sources, more than one, talk to people that you know and trust and if you don't know someone in the car business that you feel comfortable with, check with friends and family.
Excellent advice. This forum is a good place to start. There are many salespeople who have been here for a while, participate regularly, and have a good reputation. There are others who do not, and you'll find out about them here too.
The only thing worse than an ignorant car salesman is someone who doesn't know a thing about the car business but doesn't know that he doesn't know. Jeez I'm tired of idiots spewing crap about something they don't know a thing about. If you can't contribute something positive, productive or helpfull-don't post! It's not an obligation.
And I'm not terribly happy about salesmen who resort to character assassination.

I've been a Scion owner and a participant here since July and most folks realize that I know of what I speak. I've contributed tech articles and organized Scion meets, as well as moderating the forums. What contributions have you made?

I'm sorry that you don't like people who speak frankly, and who seem to mess up your "hunting ground" for sales prospects, but you'll just have to get used to it. After all, you said it yourself, in another thread:
I agree that only the dealers that are not doing this thing the right way would not want to participate. I like the candid feed back and open discussions. Bring it on!
Consider it brought! :)

George

I'll be purchasing my Xb this Monday or Tuesday. I'm expecting the worst because the 2 local dealers here are charging $298 for document fees. The dealer is already making $700 on the sticker price and then I'm sure 80% of the $515 destination charge is pure profit. So, NO I will not be paying $298 for BS document fees. If either dealer does not come down on the fees Monday, I'm driving to Lake City in Florida to get my Xb on Tueday........

my experience was mixed. the first Scion dealership told me they won't be getting new xB's in for a month and a half. I went to Deland Toyota/Scion ordered a 05 PW xB, got it in 4 days. in and out of the dealership in 1 hour max. I'm sure it is one thing going in knowing what you want, then it is if you have no idea.

and then I'm sure 80% of the $515 destination charge is pure profit.

The Dealer will not make any profit on the destination charge. The destination charge is set by Toyota, the dealership pays $515 to Toyota and then the charge is passed on to the customer.

hey come on, lets be real.....
this "no haggle strategy" is just the manufacturers way to protect their dealers by ensuring they get sticker for every scion they sell.....nice.
not many new cars see as much profit per car as the scion.....usually if a dealer makes 400 over list hes very lucky....hes making all his money on the car u traded in for 3500 bucks and hes selling for 6k....

hey come on, lets be real.....
this "no haggle strategy" is just the manufacturers way to protect their dealers by ensuring they get sticker for every scion they sell.....nice.
not many new cars see as much profit per car as the scion.....usually if a dealer makes 400 over list hes very lucky....hes making all his money on the car u traded in for 3500 bucks and hes selling for 6k....
Exactly :!: All this does is ensure the dealership a 5% profit before any options or financing are taken into account. Factor in doc fees that can be in excess of $500 and the dealer is coming out pretty nice for 1 vehicle sold. I'll agree that it was nice not to be haggled when I went in to test drive a tc, but the no-hassle thing is just there to cover up a nice profit margin and make you feel good about it.

hey come on, lets be real.....
this "no haggle strategy" is just the manufacturers way to protect their dealers by ensuring they get sticker for every scion they sell.....nice.
not many new cars see as much profit per car as the scion.....usually if a dealer makes 400 over list hes very lucky....hes making all his money on the car u traded in for 3500 bucks and hes selling for 6k....
Exactly :!: All this does is ensure the dealership a 5% profit before any options or financing are taken into account. Factor in doc fees that can be in excess of $500 and the dealer is coming out pretty nice for 1 vehicle sold. I'll agree that it was nice not to be haggled when I went in to test drive a tc, but the no-hassle thing is just there to cover up a nice profit margin and make you feel good about it.


For a sophisticated buyer who enjoy's haggling IMO from what I have seen you would be better off buying a Scion under the Toyota sales process.

I just made the deal on my TCM XB 5spd. I did have to order it to get what I wanted. They could not find any that they could transfer from any other dealerships. My only complaint is with the finace guy he tried to sell me the extended warranty and I know this is part of his job but it is the line of reasoning that was weak.
He said that modern cars have on average 13 computers and the average price is $2000. This sounds like a half truth to me, I said to him, do the math your in finance multiply 2000 by 13 that is 26,000 there is no way that makes any sense when we are talking about a $14,000 car. It just ____es me off when people like him try to take advantage of consumers who may not know much about cars. Anyway my car should be in any day now as well as the other aftermarket parts that I have on order.

all of these posts are dumbfoounding to me. hassle free??? bull____. my experience has been nothing but a big ____ing pain in the ___. i'm gonna make a thread about it i think. cuz someone's gonna hear about all the crap they pulled on me.

You can get ta hassle free experience if you go to the right dealer. At Charles Maund Scion here in Austin, hassle was the name of the game. However, at Champion Scion just down the road, I had a hassle free experience purchasing my TCM xB. It all depends on whether the dealer has their sh!t together or not.

I still hate those Toyo reps who try to cut you off at the pass when trying to get to the Scion portion though.

LOL So TRUE!!! :twisted:

even when all you want to do is go to the parts department.

I try to walk like I am on a "MISSION" and don't have TIME to waste. [and that is not easy when you use crutches :lol: ]

I like when you drive up with a car with paper plates and "so ya wanna trade that in?"

There is nothign "illegal" or "unethical" of dealers making profit/

What is unethical? Lieing, deception, and over promising.

What I like about scion is that I can shop EVERY local dealers best price in the region in 15 minutes by visiting their webpage and seeing their menu.

It's so easy.

By the way, my DOC fee is ON my menu @ scionofnaperville.com.

Anyways, my customers are happy. My Scion corp. regional, and customer all see value in what I do, and that makes me happy doing thigns.

Omer.

no hassle...well minor hassle.

I first tried the online progams, not a single dealer came back with an actual quote.

called around to my local dealers, no automatics at Glendora, could not get an answer from Puente Hills

called Longo, talked to the Scion "girl" [she said she was NOT a sales associtate, gave me the name of the sales person I needed]

Arrived FOUGHT my way through the salesmen into the showroom floor and had the sales person paged THREE times

Then a regular salesperson arrived to the page [she said on the third page any salesman can jump on a Scion call]

From then on it was smooth, she only added options I wanted and could talk my wife into.

When we got to the finance maggot he offered the extended warranty and stuff but was not pushing them [ I would also like to point out that it was NOT as easy when we bought my wife's double cab at the same dealer, so maybe they have been told to back off on that end for the Scion sales]

the biggest hassles were waiting for a salesman to start and the finance dork to end the process.

as for the service department that is another story :mad:

I have heard a lot of people say things on this thread and elsewhere on this forum about how pure price is just a way of making sure that the dealer is getting enough profit. Although it is true that the dealer is making about 600-700 profit on the car alone, that is not why Scion chose to go with the pure price structure. When scion was in its development stages they were trying to find out from gen y how they wanted their car buying purchase to be. Almost all of the people from Gen Y that responded stated in some way that they wanted a pure price system. They knew from the begining that this system was not going to be popular among the older buyers, but the whole basis for Scion was to attract a younger group of buyers. It has been my experiance that the younger people who buy Scion love that they know that they didn't get screwed or that they were able to get all the information that they wanted up front.

There are also those people that come on here and talk about how the $600-700 profit being more than enough and people would be better off on the buying a Scion the Toyota way.....this is in most cases false. The average profit made on a Toyota is about $1,400 front and back without including dealer hold back. Compare that to the Scion (which has no dealer holdback) and most people are better off with pure price. I am especially talking about people with less than average credit. Most dealerships won't even deal with a special finance deal unless the profit is at least $2,500. I know some of you are saying that "I bought my car at invoice" or "I always negotiate the deal below invoice". This may be true for you, but not for everyone. I see people try to trade out of cars all the time that payed way to much. And you have to remember if the deal didn't make the dealer a profit, you wouldn't get it!

I first tried the online progams, not a single dealer came back with an actual quote.

This is my experience too, with both Scion and non-Scion dealers. The only thing that you get from an email or on-line inquiry is a come-on to talk with them on the phone. Even the so-called "Internet Managers" refused to give any useful information in email. It's sad, because if they had offered me a straight deal via email, including the out-the-door price, they would have had a sale.

What you do get is placement on spam lists. I still get emails daily from dealers I emailed only once a year ago saying "We're ready to deal if you are!" Word to the wise: Set up a freemail account before you contact dealers!

George

comeon people,the camo xb that i got in march was a good deal,as i have bought over 20 new cars in my day,and haved owned 12 toyotas,only one bad trip with toyota and that was a 92 camary v6.it was a model change that year and at purchase i got tha 100,000 mi. warranty, later down the line they screwed me on tha warranty,but i got over it.i traded it for a saturn.happy as pig in mudd about tha car,if you aint never owned one you cant talk ____ about them! if you dont like your SCIONthen get rid of it and buy tha other japanese crap. or buy american and really have a reason to WHINE!

bondobob
ga.

I got a free lo jack, and free mats.....it was a easy deal