So what about other performance parts? Cams, Front pulleys, High rev Valve springs, oversized injectors and the list goes on. I know a lot of people stay informed on performance parts but can anyone help out with where to find these types of parts?

Underdrive Pulleys are a good idea, There are not any for this car that I know of. Everyone on this forum is afraid of them but they have been used with much success in the V8 world (I've had them on more than one car and never had any trouble with cooling, charging or A/C) and if there is a problem with the balancer then make a pulley with the balancer in it or just make the other pulleys bigger!

Its normally pretty hard to find cams for Multi-cam engines. Even the 2-valve 4.6 mustang engine doesn't have that many cam options available and there are practically none for the 4V engine. One cam people will replace but two seems the be the threshold of pain and 3 and 4 is pretty much not an option. As these cars are VVT I'm going to say it'll be a long time (If ever) before you see any aftermarket production cams. But I could easily be wrong - might already be some.

I don't think these engines need Stiffer valve springs. That's what a "high-rev" valve spring is. The power stays on strong well passed 6K so unless you want to go higher than the Rev-Limiter, Valve float doesn't look like it is an issue for this engine.

As for the rest...
The Fuel injectors are pretty standard I believe - I'd imagine you can get bigger ones if you look into it but people are running 12Lbs with just fuel pressure regulation so at the moment there is not much outcry for fuel system upgrades.

If you're looking for Standard V8 performance parts you'll not find many of them for any of the tuner cars. Large MAFs, Intake Manifolds, Heads, Cams, Roller Rockers, ect... you're not going to find them here.

"Intakes", Headers, Cat-backs, and some very limited Forced induction options are pretty much the only residents of the barren wasteland that is the Scion (and really, tuner) aftermarket.

Just wait, tiny grasshopper. These will be available in time.

Underdrive Pulleys are a good idea, There are not any for this car that I know of. Everyone on this forum is afraid of them but they have been used with much success in the V8 world (I've had them on more than one car and never had any trouble with cooling, charging or A/C) and if there is a problem with the balancer then make a pulley with the balancer in it or just make the other pulleys bigger!

Actually, I dont think that pulleys are worth the trade off. For the little that you gain in power you starve the rest of your car of power. Then there are other potential problems like a crank pulley unbalancing the crankshaft...

Its normally pretty hard to find cams for Multi-cam engines. Even the 2-valve 4.6 mustang engine doesn't have that many cam options available and there are practically none for the 4V engine. One cam people will replace but two seems the be the threshold of pain and 3 and 4 is pretty much not an option. As these cars are VVT I'm going to say it'll be a long time (If ever) before you see any aftermarket production cams. But I could easily be wrong - might already be some.

Yeah, gonna have to disagree again here. There are tons of cams for the Integra and RSX, Civic, Supra, Evo, etc. etc. etc. Also, I really dont think you know what you are talking about when you say that the Mustang doesn't have many cams. Twin cam options are not that rare at all. I suggest that you do some more research.

I don't think these engines need Stiffer valve springs. That's what a "high-rev" valve spring is. The power stays on strong well passed 6K so unless you want to go higher than the Rev-Limiter, Valve float doesn't look like it is an issue for this engine.

Stock the engine definitely doesn't need new valve springs, but as more power is pulled out especially through NA tuning, then it could be something to look into.

MWR makes good valves and valve springs, but considering the reception they received here, they may not be interested.

As for the rest...
The Fuel injectors are pretty standard I believe - I'd imagine you can get bigger ones if you look into it but people are running 12Lbs with just fuel pressure regulation so at the moment there is not much outcry for fuel system upgrades.

If you're looking for Standard V8 performance parts you'll not find many of them for any of the tuner cars. Large MAFs, Intake Manifolds, Heads, Cams, Roller Rockers, ect... you're not going to find them here.

"Intakes", Headers, Cat-backs, and some very limited Forced induction options are pretty much the only residents of the barren wasteland that is the Scion (and really, tuner) aftermarket.

This is kind of a bleak outlook. I dont know if there will be as much support for the Scion as domestics but its not that bad. It just depends on manufacturers pereception of the market.

Actually, I dont think that pulleys are worth the trade off. For the little that you gain in power you starve the rest of your car of power. Then there are other potential problems like a crank pulley unbalancing the crankshaft...

Yeah, gonna have to disagree again here. There are tons of cams for the Integra and RSX, Civic, Supra, Evo, etc. etc. etc. Also, I really dont think you know what you are talking about when you say that the Mustang doesn't have many cams. Twin cam options are not that rare at all. I suggest that you do some more research.

Stock the engine definitely doesn't need new valve springs, but as more power is pulled out especially through NA tuning, then it could be something to look into.

MWR makes good valves and valve springs, but considering the reception they received here, they may not be interested.

Small gains with Pulleys? Yeah - on an engine that makes over 200Hp I would agree but there are people on this forum who spent well over $600 to gain 5-8Hp. 5-10Hp is not unusual on mustangs with Pulleys. What exactly do you think you're missing out on by "starving" the rest of your car for power? Dedicated drag cars don't even have onboard charging systems. Yes the peak output of you're alternator is coming at a marginally higher RPM. If I recall correctly, most alternators reach maximum output around 3000RPMs, but that's Alternator RPM and your factory pulleys overdrive as it is. Believe it or not you don't need maximum output... ever. Okay - If you've got a 1500Watt system then I would suggest not underdriving (Maybe). The rest of us probably never draw more than 20-25Amps continuous. As far as the supposed imbalance issue - I don't know what people are talking about. Of course the harmonic balancer has to stay in place. This is not a weight reduction mod. The power comes from driving the accessories slower. I've never looked but if the pulley is part of the Balancer then we need a kit that does not change the drive pulley and only changes the Accessory pulleys.

Tons of cams? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place or maybe we have different ideas about what makes a ton of options. I saw a few options for specific Honda, Mitsu and domestic tuner engines. You can find someone to custom grind anything for the right price but I get the distinct impression there aren't that many cam options for most Multi-cam tuner cars especially. I've been reading MM&FF (Among other Ford and Hotrod rags) for 8 Years now, Owned and extensively modified 3 Mustangs ('66 '83 '95) and I feel I'm quite qualified to sum up that scene. Yes a few manufacturers have a few cam options for the Modulars - Its not that there is nothing available but there's no where near the shear volume of options available for the single cam engines. Judging by all the people I have met at the Track and on other forums it is not at all a common modification.

At what point does a Stiffer Valve spring become key in N/A Tuning? I can think of one - At an RPM that exceeds the Springs ability to control the valve. I've heard of Valve control issues on the Intake side in forced induction setups but if you are not referring to N/A Tuning that involves Insane RPMs then I don't think you've thought this through and this is getting lengthy so I'm not going to go into valvetrain theory.

I guess my outlook is fairly negative but its only because there are parts that could be made for these cars other than CAIs and Headers but they'll never be made if nobody cares.

Aftermarket Itinerary should be according to me:
1: Intake Manifold -Unless the factory piece is very, very well designed its a safe bet there are more gains up for grabs behind (On the engine side of) the Throttle body than in front of it. Plus its made of plastic! talk about profit margins. Unfortunately it requires more than a mandrel bender R&D one.

1.5: While you're at it, how about some larger TBs and MAFs. 3" intake plumbing might be a bit excessive if the TB is only 40MM (I don't know how big an xB TB is just guessing.)

2: How about an Under drive pulley kit. If there is a balancing issue figure it out - its not rocket science.

3: An Aftermarket head. The holy grail of the N/A Tuner. At least heads are in the V8 world. and it certainly should be here too. I can't think of any single N/A part that can free up quite as much power as a good set of heads, and what works for a V8 should work just as well (Percentage wise at least) for half of one.

*Addressing the aftermarket*
Okay - that's my top three, get back to me when you're done with that and I'll give you another pompous dissertation on how I think it should be.

About the Cams and Variable Valve Timing (VVT):
Variable Valve Timing is nothing special. It has been around since the 40's. It is plastered on the car to have some technical appeal just like we DOHC and such on other cars.....it appeals to people who dont know what it is. I have an 87 Alfa romeo and it has VVT and so do the 70's models. As a matter of fact almost all cars today employ variable valve timing. Now scion claims this is Itelligent VVT which I am guessing means that it is controlled more by electronics then mechanically. I do know though that performance Cams are available for 4 cyl cars in wide variety. Not Scions though; Yet. I even found Cams for my 86 toyota truck's 22R and it was a single cam, not double like Scions and most others. The Scions have Dual Cams, the intake cam and the exhaust cam just like my Alfa. My Alfa has three different performance Cams that I can buy so I know someone will make them for Scions. The VVT has nothing to do with performance cams. Now if I put performance Cams in the car I would alsp put High rev springs, not just for high RPMS but for more precision. I am just wondering If anyone knows if these parts are out yet.

Actually, I dont think that pulleys are worth the trade off. For the little that you gain in power you starve the rest of your car of power. Then there are other potential problems like a crank pulley unbalancing the crankshaft...

Yeah, gonna have to disagree again here. There are tons of cams for the Integra and RSX, Civic, Supra, Evo, etc. etc. etc. Also, I really dont think you know what you are talking about when you say that the Mustang doesn't have many cams. Twin cam options are not that rare at all. I suggest that you do some more research.

Stock the engine definitely doesn't need new valve springs, but as more power is pulled out especially through NA tuning, then it could be something to look into.

MWR makes good valves and valve springs, but considering the reception they received here, they may not be interested.

Small gains with Pulleys? Yeah - on an engine that makes over 200Hp I would agree but there are people on this forum who spent well over $600 to gain 5-8Hp. 5-10Hp is not unusual on mustangs with Pulleys. What exactly do you think you're missing out on by "starving" the rest of your car for power? Dedicated drag cars don't even have onboard charging systems. Yes the peak output of you're alternator is coming at a marginally higher RPM. If I recall correctly, most alternators reach maximum output around 3000RPMs, but that's Alternator RPM and your factory pulleys overdrive as it is. Believe it or not you don't need maximum output... ever. Okay - If you've got a 1500Watt system then I would suggest not underdriving (Maybe). The rest of us probably never draw more than 20-25Amps continuous. As far as the supposed imbalance issue - I don't know what people are talking about. Of course the harmonic balancer has to stay in place. This is not a weight reduction mod. The power comes from driving the accessories slower. I've never looked but if the pulley is part of the Balancer then we need a kit that does not change the drive pulley and only changes the Accessory pulleys.

Tons of cams? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place or maybe we have different ideas about what makes a ton of options. I saw a few options for specific Honda, Mitsu and domestic tuner engines. You can find someone to custom grind anything for the right price but I get the distinct impression there aren't that many cam options for most Multi-cam tuner cars especially. I've been reading MM&FF (Among other Ford and Hotrod rags) for 8 Years now, Owned and extensively modified 3 Mustangs ('66 '83 '95) and I feel I'm quite qualified to sum up that scene. Yes a few manufacturers have a few cam options for the Modulars - Its not that there is nothing available but there's no where near the shear volume of options available for the single cam engines. Judging by all the people I have met at the Track and on other forums it is not at all a common modification.

At what point does a Stiffer Valve spring become key in N/A Tuning? I can think of one - At an RPM that exceeds the Springs ability to control the valve. I've heard of Valve control issues on the Intake side in forced induction setups but if you are not referring to N/A Tuning that involves Insane RPMs then I don't think you've thought this through and this is getting lengthy so I'm not going to go into valvetrain theory.

I guess my outlook is fairly negative but its only because there are parts that could be made for these cars other than CAIs and Headers but they'll never be made if nobody cares.

Aftermarket Itinerary should be according to me:
1: Intake Manifold -Unless the factory piece is very, very well designed its a safe bet there are more gains up for grabs behind (On the engine side of) the Throttle body than in front of it. Plus its made of plastic! talk about profit margins. Unfortunately it requires more than a mandrel bender R&D one.

1.5: While you're at it, how about some larger TBs and MAFs. 3" intake plumbing might be a bit excessive if the TB is only 40MM (I don't know how big an xB TB is just guessing.)

2: How about an Under drive pulley kit. If there is a balancing issue figure it out - its not rocket science.

3: An Aftermarket head. The holy grail of the N/A Tuner. At least heads are in the V8 world. and it certainly should be here too. I can't think of any single N/A part that can free up quite as much power as a good set of heads, and what works for a V8 should work just as well (Percentage wise at least) for half of one.

*Addressing the aftermarket*
Okay - that's my top three, get back to me when you're done with that and I'll give you another pompous dissertation on how I think it should be.

Thats a whole lot to respond to.

First, let me guess. You have some domestic tuning in your background?

As for pulleys. We are generally talking about 1-3 hp difference with them on a modern I4. They lighten the load of the accessories but because they are underdriven less power is supplied to the system. Generally this means less power to your accessories. I dont think anyone is going to turn their xB into a dedicated drag car, so accessories are generally more important.

I would suggest that you further research cam options for import cars as I think you experience is limited here. Crower alone has 38 different cam shafts for Honda engiens and that is before they have even started working on the new K series.

I would agree with your assessment of NA tuning, and say that for more power you will inevitably raise the limiter and this will require better valve springs.

I would disagree with you modification plan, it definitely seems like the way to go on a larger engine domestic but this is not hte case with Scions.

Intake manifolds, TB's and Mafs have little effect on small engines. I mean they definitely do have some but nothing like the effect on a larger displacement engine.

Pulleys I have already discussed.

Head work is again not as effective on a small i4 as it would be on the engines that you mention.

For that kind of money you could get a small forced induction system and be making far more power.

I agree - the effect of all the induction parts I mentioned (Heads, Intake Manifold, TBs, MAFs and Cams) will be less dramatic when it comes to Horsepower numbers, but percentage wise, I think similar gains could be expected. Right now, none of these parts are available. Without FI were talking about three parts (Unless you include Ground wires and Resistors) you could install at the moment, and then your done. They are all three about $300 (This number is really quite high and I refuse to pay around $300 for a header - You can get a pair of 5.0 shorties for $150) and when you've got all three, I hope your satisfied with your net gains of, what? 10-15Hp, because you're pretty much done. Why is there a resistance to parts that are tried and true- proven to make power? Again - Yes of course I understand that the Horse power gains on induction related parts will not be as large as you'd see on a V8. And of course this is true of the parts we have at the moment as well. The real difference is that the parts we do have at the moment are easy to produce and install. If all you needed to make a cylinder head was a Tube bender and a tig, and they only took 45 minuets to install, we would all have $500 aftermarket heads on our cars and be seeing 15-25Hp gains (Yes I really, really do think these are reasonable numbers to expect from a well designed head with larger valves and bigger ports.) This isn't the case of course. Heads are designed by companies that have the capitol to engineer, R&D, and cast them. There's not likely to be instant gratification for the consumer - The head will take hours to install and the Pistons may have to be flycut - In general, this is much more complicated than Manufacturing/installing a CAI. This is the reason we don't have more effective parts for these cars. The parts we have are relatively easy to manufacture because the large companies with the capital to design the parts we need aren't interested in making performance parts for these cars. There aren't that many of any one model and each model has a different engine. I believe your deluding yourself if you think we don't have these parts because they don't work. I understand that companies can't spend tens of thousands to Develop all the parts I want for each tuner car, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

As for pulleys I think we'll have to agree to disagree - Three horsepower is three horsepower and if someone put out a set for $100 I'd buy it. They really don't effect drivability in my experience and the shift in alternator charging-range doesn't really come into play.

Head work is of arguable value on a V8 as well - polishing is practically worthless and you have to get pretty crazy with the grinder to accomplish much as far as porting. (Yes I'm aware that if you DO get crazy with the grinder you can get some pretty signifcant gains - But moddern heads have less material to work with and people had a lot of trouble porting the Modular 4.6 heads untill the P.I.s came out) I meant a new redesigned Head. If only we could be so lucky as to get some love from AFR. Larger valves - Larger volumes/Better shaped ports. There is no doubt in my mind that AFR could unlock some truly worthwhile power here. A pipe dream - we'll never see an aftermarket head.

I didn't check Crower - yes I'm from the mustang crowd and fairly unfamiliar with the import aftermarket. I looked at CompCams and Jegs and found a pretty limited selection.

As for the VVT, I don't know anything about Alpha Romeo but Honda did claim that it's VTEC system was the first Variable Valve timing system in a production car - odd. You never explained why you think it's so ineffectual. No I do not think that most engines are VVT, I can name quite a few that aren't. It is more than just a gimmick and I would think it appeals to people who know what it does more than people who don't. I drove a VTec Acura CL for a bit and one of my complaints with the car was that the effects of the VVT (It was always at the same RPM and the engine was obviously making more power suddenly) were so abrupt the car jerked or shuttered as it changed cam lobes - It certainly does do something.
It has plenty to do with Performance cams because the Cam has to have more lobes on it. That's more lobes to design and test and more lobes to machine when it comes time to produce the thing. Its a more complicated install when it comes time put it in your car. Whether an engine is VVT does effect a manufactures decision on whether to try and make cams for the engine as well as the price and how hard the install will be.

The 22R and 22RE are very common engines; they went into the vast majority of Toyota pickups in their hay day and the Celica too (Likely other platforms as well, I'm just not that up on toyota history.) I don't think its odd or telling that you found a cam for that engine.

Ahhh, nice fellas. I remember topics like these on Scion Life. The ones where I actually learned something. I guess when it comes to NA people are more civil. Disagreements on forced induction tend to lead to total pandemonium. Folks totally freak when it comes to turbos and sc and seem get all huffy puffy when their ideas are challenged. Anyways, question for any of y'all. With VVTi, what are the variables that cause the cam to shift lobes? RPM? With an aftermarket cam would there need to be an accompanying piggyback for the ECU? I'm assuming that with many of the NA mads discussed here that the ecu would need to be flashed, piggybacked or changed?

If I recall correctly Honda's VTEC System was controlled by Oil pressure alone. At a given RPM the engine should be producing a specific amount of Oil pressure and this is how the variable timing system was triggered. I got the impression that the VVT-i system was more sophisticated, the computer actuated the system (Also with oil pressure but here the computer must use electronic valves or pressure regulators) and thus: it could decide when to employ it based on many variables (RPMS, Engine Load, Air Volume/Density.) I'm not to familiar with toyota's system, I have not read much about it or even seen an engine with the valve cover off.

The same thought occurred to me - with forced induction, or even improved induction, it seems like you could get some odd results from the system if the computer did not understand what was happening. I Still eagerly await an explanation from one of the companies working on Turbo or Blower kits as to how they deal with this issue or if it needs to be dealt with at all.

Alfa Romeo and other italian cars have used VVT for a long time in their race cars. Alfa put it in there race cars first then they used it in production. Back then Enzo Ferrari and Maserati worked for Alfa Romeo on the race car team. Honda maybe used a specific method first but they definetly weren't the first by a longshot. I believe VVT was invented in Europe for race cars in Le Mans and such races. Here is a link http://www.clanger9.org.uk/alfa/engine/vvt.html

This is from http://spiderfaq.home.att.net/dev_his.htm
"Performance gradually increased from its all-time low of 1981. Alfa kept refining and tuning the engine as much as possible to get power, economy, and emissions control. To this end, in 1980 Alfa incorporated variable valve timing (or VVT). The system is essentially an electromechanical piston on the intake camshaft. Developed in the 1970s by Ing Giampaolo Garcea for Alfa, it was termed "variatore de fase" by the Italian engineers. This was promptly renamed "the phaser" by the Americans involved with the team, and the name stuck."

As I stated earlier i do believe that the people at the dealership told me the "i" in VVTi stands for intelligent, which they said means electronically controlled. But this being from a dealersip who knows, sometimes they just say what they think is fact. As far as only a 15 Hp gain, don't forget that the xA wieghs 2300 lbs. a 15 HP increase means a whole lot more then in a 3200 lb Mustang. The big blocks also weigh a whole lot more. As far as being worth the money that is an individual decision. I do know that on the way home from work I have an intersection that I always hit a red light at. The turn left is really sharp and I always smoke the camaros and mustangs because I am lower to the ground and smaller. Of course it is the only place in which I have any advantage and in a drag I will always lose. But I love the tight turns and the interstate on and off ramps because I can take them so well.
ok that was my own little happy story about my xA I just wanted to share.

I do believe someone asked what VVT is. VVT engines have an extra intake cam with its own rocker, which follows this cam. The profile on this cam keeps the intake valve open longer than the other cam profile. At low engine speeds, this rocker is not connected to any valves. At high engine speeds, a piston locks the extra rocker to the two rockers that control the two intake valves. Like I said though I am not 100% sure that VVTi is electronically controlled but I believe it is and that means it would only be similiar to this. Maybe not being controlled by piston speed but by elctronics. I can actually feel the VVT kick in in my Alfa Romeo, it is old and is triggered mechanically, I know the new cars are a lot smoother and it is almost impossible to tell when it is being employed. Since VVT has been around for a while I think that Turbo manufacturers don't have a problem, but I am also too trusting of a person. It is a good thought that the car could be set to work within certain specs and a turbo takes it out of those specs leaving a conflict between systems and a loss in total possible HP gain. LEE that was an excellent thought.

some cars use a device that can advance the valve timing. This does not keep the valves open longer; instead, it opens them later and closes them later. This is done by rotating the camshaft ahead a few degrees. If the intake valves normally open at 10 degrees before top dead center (TDC) and close at 190 degrees after TDC, the total duration is 200 degrees. The opening and closing times can be shifted using a mechanism that rotates the cam ahead a little as it spins. So the valve might open at 10 degrees after TDC and close at 210 degrees after TDC. Closing the valve 20 degrees later is good, but it would be better to be able to increase the duration that the intake valve is open.

You know i got confused on the first Dual overhead cam and VVT. I guess VVT has been around 30 + years. It was the DOHC that was made in the first half of the 20th century. VVT is very common among the 4cyl european cars. My wife is european and I hang with Alfa owners a lot. VVT is commonplace when we speak of Lancia, Fiat and such. If it is not as common with japanese cars that is surprising. American cars wouldn't surprise me as much.