you have to see the cars in person. pictures don't do it justice because i look at the pictures and the only ones that look good are the 5axis models. seeing the stock versions in person the new cars are truly amazing and i'm not saying that because i work for scion. both cars deserve the scion badge. our 2nd gen xB looks more like the 1st gen than the 2nd gen jdm model. its an evolution of the original B design. i've seen post where the rear of the xD reminds members of the dodge calibur, again wait until you see it person. you can't see the little details of the design until the car is in front of you. also, they look and feel more substantial than the 1st gens and you can't judge that by an on-line picture.

i'll give a great example of pictures don't do the car justice. the Lexus IS-F when i saw the detroit pictures i said was weird looking and ugly. when i saw it at chicago in "person" i was blown away. the car is not weird and ugly but wicked and aggressive. the car has that get out of my way look about it which is smart of lexus to do. they couldn't make it look like every other S, M or AMG model where there's subtle difference between the regular models. they needed their car to stand out and make people look and they hit the bulls eye with the new IS-F.

so, like i said wait until you see both in person and i guarantee you won't be dissappointed. its amazing a majority that were in miami loves the new cars but the majority of the people whose seen it on-line hate it. :ponder:

I second that!

The deal breaker for me is the engine. If it was a 1.8L I could possibly overlook some of the design I have problems with, mainly the extended front end. Lots of people have mentioned the possibilty of both the 2.4 and 1.8L. Could you give a definitive answer one way or another about the engine?

Whats the price going to be? I want to have both. keep the gen1 and get the gen2. Price?

I liked the pictures but loved seeing the car. After looking at the competion I can hoestly say, no other car was this well designed. It looked as good as the hype lead up. I am really exited for April.
What I was disapointed in, I could not sit in the thing, no MPG info and many simple dimentions were left out.
Y?

The deal breaker for me is the engine. If it was a 1.8L I could possibly overlook some of the design I have problems with, mainly the extended front end. Lots of people have mentioned the possibilty of both the 2.4 and 1.8L. Could you give a definitive answer one way or another about the engine?

2AZ-FE is a great motor and with the 2nd gen xB weighing in about 500+ more pounds than the 1st gen the 2AZ is the perfect choice. yes, you do give up a little on gas mileage but you make up for it on engine response on the freeway where the 1st gen would struggle to get going when loaded. gas mileage i would have to say would be in the mid 20's and low to 30's depending on how they gear the new xB. which should translate to 26-29mpg with most drivers. which is still great considering the trade off. you guys wanted more power and they gave it to you and now you can plug the trd s/c.

the car will weigh in low low 3000lb mark and if it was using the 1.8L in the xD it would make it even worse than the 1.5L in the 1st gen xB. not just in power but fuel economy.

The only thing I'm waiting on now is just knowing exact price, price on extras and gas information. The sooner I find out the sooner comes a deposit.

I agree. When you see it, you will love. At least I did...i even touched as it spun around. I plan on getting one...er... rather my wife is getting one :lalala:

Whats the price going to be? I want to have both. keep the gen1 and get the gen2. Price?

rumour has it being $1100 more.

The only thing I'm waiting on now is just knowing exact price, price on extras and gas information. The sooner I find out the sooner comes a deposit.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

the 1.5 felt stressed out when I drove it for a couple days, so the 2.4 was welcomed with a lump in my throat. I don't like buying gas, it gives me the creeps.
I'd love yo see a plugin for the 3rd gen. Not for $ saving. It's a matter of OPEC fat cats pulling the lever of the poor to poorer.
2nd gen mods should get serious about fuel conservation. That nav system can really help a lot for many people.
Next wednesday i'm putting $ down on the new b. It's not perfect, neither was the old b. I really dig the new thugish look. It's nothing like the HHR or the PT. I looked at both during the show and can be discribed as CRAMPED. My bro helped me out of the back seat of the hhr after some moved the front seat back.

The only thing I'm waiting on now is just knowing exact price, price on extras and gas information. The sooner I find out the sooner comes a deposit.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:question:

What did I do now?

i'll give a great example of pictures don't do the car justice. the Lexus IS-F when i saw the detroit pictures i said was weird looking and ugly.
Except that the IS-F was one of the hottest things I've ever seen. In pictures. I will be at the show tomorrow, so I will see what happens... :lalala:

I registered tonight to toss my two cents into the firestorm of derision mounting against the Mk2 xB.

I've driven a Mk1 xB and a Fit Sport within the last year while testing the waters for something to replace my DC4 Integra. I enjoyed the handling and agility of both of these cars, but I wasn't thrilled with the meager displacement / output.

With the Mk1 xB, 4K+ rpm at 75 mph got old fast... and in order to keep up with the usual pace of traffic out in the Valley, I found you had to whip the ____ out of the motor to be with the pack from light to light.

So when the news broke of the new xB, and of the tC's 2.4 litre mill replacing the old 1.6, I was all ears. More torque, more hp and the ability to tap into all the aftermarket R&D work put into the tC.

Without being courted for a focus group, the new xB starts to appeal to me now.

But then I come here (after lurking for a while) and a fair number of you guys are tearing the new car to shreds like rabid hyenas. :shock:

So, I've got 2 questions for the naysayers:

First, assuming most of you would buy a manual-trans Mk2, what guarantees that the gas mileage will be so awful? It's not like they've dropped a blown 454 cid V8 into the thing.

Secondly, what were you expecting given the Fuse and t2B? If anything less than a strict 2-box design was what you wanted... why wasn't there any vocal protest to Scion when these concepts came out?

I'm not really here to throw stones and stir things up, but I would like to hear a rational explanation behind all the vitriol. Scion is a very young brand and IMO it's still searching for an identity. So to hear from current xB owners that they've lost the plot is kind of odd. :ponder:

Thanks for reading this long-winded blather.
Pardon me if I drifted a bit from the topic at hand. :o

the 1.5 felt stressed out when I drove it for a couple days, so the 2.4 was welcomed with a lump in my throat. I don't like buying gas, it gives me the creeps.
I'd love yo see a plugin for the 3rd gen. Not for $ saving. It's a matter of OPEC fat cats pulling the lever of the poor to poorer.
2nd gen mods should get serious about fuel conservation. That nav system can really help a lot for many people.
Next wednesday i'm putting $ down on the new b. It's not perfect, neither was the old b. I really dig the new thugish look. It's nothing like the HHR or the PT. I looked at both during the show and can be discribed as CRAMPED. My bro helped me out of the back seat of the hhr after some moved the front seat back.

just make sure to ask if the deposit is fully refundable if you change your mind.

you can tell if you like a car or not the first fifteen seconds you see it in person. there isn't that looks okay or only if they did that with me. when i saw the new highlander it was :nope: :doh: for me.

The only thing I'm waiting on now is just knowing exact price, price on extras and gas information. The sooner I find out the sooner comes a deposit.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:question:

What did I do now?

nothing! just the delivery of what you wrote. maybe it didn't make rofl, it did give me a giggle. :wink:

The only thing I'm waiting on now is just knowing exact price, price on extras and gas information. The sooner I find out the sooner comes a deposit.

i cant help but to wonder if the price and the rest will be availible in the next few days. I say this only cause Troy from 5 Axis stated that he can give more info on the tweaks on the lip kits.

The only thing I'm waiting on now is just knowing exact price, price on extras and gas information. The sooner I find out the sooner comes a deposit.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:question:

What did I do now?

nothing! just the delivery of what you wrote. maybe it didn't make rofl, it did give me a giggle. :wink:

10-4 the refund heads up! I'll go in with an open mind and report back. I already feel like it's not 100/100 more like 90/100. So if they really jack the rate I'm buying a used b.

@ theotherdave

I can only speak for myself but what I found most appealing about the xB classic besides its unique styling was its practically and fuel effciency. I consider myself very environamentally conscience, so fuel efficiency is at the top of my list of things I look for in a car. I'm afraid the xB2 won't appeal to me for that reason. I won't trade in my VW for a car that gets worse mileage.

When it comes to styling of the xB2, some things about it are growing on me but I simply can't get over the longer front end. If they had kept it shorter like the t2b I would definitely like it alot more. The stock xB2 simply doesn't do it for me. I'm not big into tuning cars but it does look better with the bodykit and rims and lowering springs. Adding that, however, will most likely put the price of the car in the neighborhood of $20k. For that price there are many more cars that I would rather have. The 2008 Impreza hatchback looks great and would be in that price range. With roughly the same hp and arguably better fuel efficiency that would be a no-brainer for me. Again I'm not looking for a fast car, if I wanted a fast car I'd buy the 2008 evo X.

In my case, cars like the 08 nissan cube, 09 fit hybrid or the soon-to-be redesigned rabbit and others are simply better choices for me. I'm happy with the car I have for now so grabbing up a xB classic isn't really something I'm interested in doing. I like to plan things in advance and that's why I was looking foward to the new xB. I joined this site specifically to keep informed about the new model and unfortunately I was let down. I do think that the xD is a really nice looking car but I own a 4 dr. hatchback with comparable engine and efficiency but my car has way more features and is almost paid off. Trading in for the xD is also not something I'm interested in.

The only thing I'm waiting on now is just knowing exact price, price on extras and gas information. The sooner I find out the sooner comes a deposit.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:question:

What did I do now?

nothing! just the delivery of what you wrote. maybe it didn't make rofl, it did give me a giggle. :wink:

haha ok, i thought i did something dumb again. 8)

Without being courted for a focus group, the new xB starts to appeal to me now.

But then I come here (after lurking for a while) and a fair number of you guys are tearing the new car to shreds like rabid hyenas. :shock:

So, I've got 2 questions for the naysayers:

First, assuming most of you would buy a manual-trans Mk2, what guarantees that the gas mileage will be so awful? It's not like they've dropped a blown 454 cid V8 into the thing.

Secondly, what were you expecting given the Fuse and t2B? If anything less than a strict 2-box design was what you wanted... why wasn't there any vocal protest to Scion when these concepts came out?

I'm not really here to throw stones and stir things up, but I would like to hear a rational explanation behind all the vitriol. Scion is a very young brand and IMO it's still searching for an identity. So to hear from current xB owners that they've lost the plot is kind of odd. :ponder:

Thanks for reading this long-winded blather.
Pardon me if I drifted a bit from the topic at hand. :o

Agreed. I like the 1st Gen xB a ton, but everything that kept me from buying one, they fixed in this 2nd Gen. More room in the back, 5 lug, more HP. I also think it looks much better than the 1st gen. I really dig the chopped look to it, it has a pimp 30's coupe look to me.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h84/allonsvites/060416_Elmia_FordTudor-34B.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h84/allonsvites/050327_Elmia_92_A_Ford-30.jpg

Well, you can say what you want about it being better looking in person. That doesn't change the cold hard facts that:

1. The engine is bigger, meaning the gas mileage blows now.

2. The cost will probably go up significantly.

3. The overall body is longer, wider & shorter.

4. The design is just OK. Its not that its a terrible design, its really not. But, its certainly lost that uniqueness that the original had.

5. The xB is no longer a practical car, no matter how you slice it.

And so on. But those things alone kill it for MANY people, especially fans of the original. Yeah, you could make the looks better with body kits & stuff, but its not gonna change those facts & it will make the price go way up as well.

Sorry, no dice.

1. The engine is bigger, meaning the gas mileage blows now.

LOL, you guys are crazy. Gas mileage blows with the 2.4L?? Most people are very happy with mid 20's mpg. Like the other guy said, it's not like they're dropping a big block in it.

4. The design is just OK. Its not that its a terrible design, its really not. But, its certainly lost that uniqueness that the original had.
bs, quitter.

1. The engine is bigger, meaning the gas mileage blows now.

LOL, you guys are crazy. Gas mileage blows with the 2.4L?? Most people are very happy with mid 20's mpg. Like the other guy said, it's not like they're dropping a big block in it.
Well, lets see. The new xB has the same exact engine that is in the current tC.

2006 Scion xB MPG rating: 31-City & 34 Highway
2006 Scion tC MPG rating: 23-City & 30 Highway

The 2008 Scion xB weighs more & is less aerodynamic than the tC, so it doesnt take a genius to figure out that MPG is gonna take a big hit. I will say its gonna be around 20-22 MPG in the city & around 27-29 MPG highway.

A 10 MPG drop from the last one in the city. Now, remember thats 10 less miles than you can drive with these new ones for EACH GALLON. Still think were crazy??

1. The engine is bigger, meaning the gas mileage blows now.

LOL, you guys are crazy. Gas mileage blows with the 2.4L?? Most people are very happy with mid 20's mpg. Like the other guy said, it's not like they're dropping a big block in it.

Well consider the fact that gas prices will be around $5 a gallon in about two years. You can call BS on that but gas prices are already like that in Europe. We are honestly lucky to still have gas prices at $2 and $3 a gallon now. So its not like they are droppng a V8 in it but some of us want fuel economy not mediocre power. If I wanted a fast car I would buy one. The xB2 will not be a fast car unless you drop thousands of dollars in aftermarket upgrades that wear down the engine prematurely. I think I speak for alot of people who are disappointed in the loss of a cool yet fuel effcient vehicle. They have the tC for a reason. That's for the people who want a sports coupe. They didn't need to change the one car that is a "Tokyo City Car," many people liked not only the looks but the idea behind it. Its something that I thought the American consumers were starting to grow acustomed to, but unfortunately I think I was mistaken.

Some of us want fuel economy not mediocre power. If I wanted a fast car I would buy one. I think I speak for alot of people who are disappointed in the loss of a cool yet fuel effcient vehicle. They have the tC for a reason. That's for the people who want a sports coupe. They didn't need to change the one car that is a "Tokyo City Car," many people liked not only the looks but the idea behind it. Its something that I thought the American consumers were starting to grow acustomed to, but unfortunately I think I was mistaken.
Amen!!

And no, you weren't mistaken. Americans still desperately want cars like this. Super cool but super practical cars that get awesome gas mileage that are small on the outside but roomy on the inside with funky & unique styling, all while being affordable both to purchase AND to own. We will just have to look elsewhere to get our next rides.

Unfortunately, its Scion who was mistaken. Its a shame too. They totally had that market, but blew it with these new models.

Secondly, what were you expecting given the Fuse and t2B? If anything less than a strict 2-box design was what you wanted... why wasn't there any vocal protest to Scion when these concepts came out?
I'm not at all sure anyone believed that Scion was going to be THAT different than the usual car company: We've seen many concept cars that never made it remotely near production no matter how long one waited and anticipated.

That Scion not only brought to production a vehicle VERY close to their concept car, but in under two years, is phenomenal!

The xB2 will be a strong seller and will deserve it's success - it is specifically designed to answer the complaints/suggestions of dissatisfied xB Classic owners, and those who wouldn't buy the xB because of perceived shortcomings.

Those points have all been answered. The once dissatisfied should now be satisfied, and it is amazing that Scion listened so well!

The problem now is for all those who WERE satisfied and very pleased with their xB Classics: That entire class of car is now no longer available in the United States, and replacing their boxes when they need replacement isn't possible. :(

I'm NOT against the xB2 (except for its usurpation of the box's name), I'm simply disappointed and worried about where I can go from my box. There is no path out of this woods.

If anyone is actually interested, my comments are here: http://www.tijil.org/blog/?p=24

Tom http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif

there is a path...

keep your xB and hope something Scion puts out works for you...

or

sell your xB and go to a different company...

it's funny that the majority of the bi*ching is from people that haven't seen it...

Tomas...I'm sorry but all the complaining in the world isn't going to suddenly cause Scion to drop this whole new model idea and revert back to whats safe...thats not Scions way...

the scion grew by a foot trust me in saying that is not that much of a difference it is still 10 inches shorter than an HHR and I have no problems driving and parking one of them

-wC

As my daughter said, "Oh, it looks like a mini van".

I don't view it as that much of a problem to keep xB1, for those of us that own them. People are acting like they will HAVE to trade them in for something else. If you like it alot, and bought it new, and took good care of it, it should last 200k. At that point you can pay 3-4k and have the engine rebuilt (for performance -if you want)

I'm driving around during summers in a 27 year old bimmer, I bought used. I'm not sitting there b!tching about BMW not making them like they used to....

You just go out and by the used car that has the styling that appeals to you.

As my daughter said, "Oh, it looks like a mini van".

We get it. You have said it many times. Maybe your daughter likes mini vans? Maybe she likes 2.4L engines? Maybe she likes a bigger xB so she can store more Dora the Explorer toys? I honestly dont think anybody's not going to buy the car because of your daughter's comment, except maybe you. Sorry about the comment, I'm sick of reading that post in every thread.

As my daughter said, "Oh, it looks like a mini van".

We get it. You have said it many times. Maybe your daughter likes mini vans? Maybe she likes 2.4L engines? Maybe she likes a bigger xB so she can store more Dora the Explorer toys? I honestly dont think anybody's not going to buy the car because of your daughter's comment, except maybe you. Sorry about the comment, I'm sick of reading that post in every thread.

+1

-wC

@ theotherdave

I can only speak for myself but what I found most appealing about the xB classic besides its unique styling was its practically and fuel effciency. I consider myself very environamentally conscience, so fuel efficiency is at the top of my list of things I look for in a car. I'm afraid the xB2 won't appeal to me for that reason. I won't trade in my VW for a car that gets worse mileage.

when they surveyed 06 B owners that bought the car there were three customer profiles. 1: i got it for the styling 2: i got it for the room inside 3: i got it cause of the mpg. profile 2 and 3 were very similar as to why they got the B in the first place and 1 had mileage at or near the bottom of their list "as to why".

i agree that with larger engine it might dissuade people from buying the B but that's why they made the D roomier without making it any longer than A but with similar mileage. the new B will still have that praticallity but with more power, more cargo capacity while still having that unique B look and most important better emissions with 2AZ.


When it comes to styling of the xB2, some things about it are growing on me but I simply can't get over the longer front end. If they had kept it shorter like the t2b I would definitely like it alot more. The stock xB2 simply doesn't do it for me. I'm not big into tuning cars but it does look better with the bodykit and rims and lowering springs. Adding that, however, will most likely put the price of the car in the neighborhood of $20k. For that price there are many more cars that I would rather have. The 2008 Impreza hatchback looks great and would be in that price range. With roughly the same hp and arguably better fuel efficiency that would be a no-brainer for me. Again I'm not looking for a fast car, if I wanted a fast car I'd buy the 2008 evo X.


that's why i said wait until you see it person. you won't need a body kit or have it lowered to make it look good. all the new B needs is the upgraded factory 16" alloys and it changes the whole look of the car. the car is wider and slightly lower with wider stock tires than the 1st gen. the car looks more agressive froma sporty stand point than the 1st gen.

i'am very picky when it comes to styling on cars. i don't like rice rocket looks ( kits, wings and splitters). i prefer the clean look with a slight drop with alloys and the new B has it. you don't have to worry about spending $20k to make the new B look good.

As my daughter said, "Oh, it looks like a mini van".

there's a reason for that. the B in japan are called micro-buses which the american translation would be micro-van. we have vans, mini-vans and the B minus the sliding doors is essentially a micro-van.

but from a styling stand point it looks less bus or van like because its still short dimension wise with a wider lower look. to give the 1st gen the same agressive sporty look people had to lower or slam them with 18". the stock B2 has that look already just by adding factory alloys. why?

Overall length: 167.3 vs 155.3

Overall width: 69.3 vs 66.5

Overall height: 62.6 vs 64.6

Wheelbase: 102.4 vs 98.4

length: a foot longer would translate to a bigger car but in person the car still looks tiny because of the use of contours and angles in the design.

width: the car from the front or back looks like it can carve a mountain pass and with 205/55-16 series tires it looks like it can. cars that had that same set-up rsx type-s and last gen prelude.

height: this is what gives it an aggressive look along with the wider track. that's why i said most people don't need to slam the B2 because of three things. the width, height and stock tire size. trust me it looks sporty with just the upgraded factory wheels

wheelbase: 102.4" , 167.3" and you get overhangs that are really short to give it a great looking strong side profile.

I don't view it as that much of a problem to keep xB1, for those of us that own them. People are acting like they will HAVE to trade them in for something else. If you like it alot, and bought it new, and took good care of it, it should last 200k. At that point you can pay 3-4k and have the engine rebuilt (for performance -if you want)

I'm driving around during summers in a 27 year old bimmer, I bought used. I'm not sitting there b!tching about BMW not making them like they used to....

You just go out and by the used car that has the styling that appeals to you.

Seriously. If all the guys complaining like their 1st gen so much, why don't they just keep it. What's stopping you guys from keeping your 1st gen for 10+ years and being happy?

wish i had access to the pictures we took but this is the only i could find with the factory alloys. 205/55-16 is good choice for the dimensions of the B2. the person that took the pic was lower than the car so you can't really judge the wheel and tire gap to well.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2008-scion-xb/155124/

like i said a majority of the people whose seen it miami and chicago likes the car but the people whose only seen internet pics don't. why? that's why the topic is titled "Just Wait".

I'm not getting the MPG comments. I drove an RS1 for about 2 years. I never saw MPG over 25.

Most of my driving was mixed (first 3 miles in town, next 10+ on the highway, twice a day). No matter how nice I drove it it wouldn't break 25mpg.

This one looks like it might be a little better aerodynamically, so even with a bigger engine it should be in the same ballpark for miles per gallon.

Just seems like a lot of people are talking a lot of crap about a part of the car no ones been able to test. A bigger engine does not always mean worse mpg.

If it takes the engine less work to get to speed, and can maintain it at a more even RPM, then it could get better MPG.

Will it? No clue, I haven't driven one. But I couldn't stand the way the old XB looked until I actually went and drove one. The test drive was what changed my mind. Up to that moment I did't get it and saw no reason to get one.

I've since sold my xB. I've had a few cars since but I still miss it. It wasn't practical, it wasn't fast, it got good, but not great, gas mileage. But it was a fun car.

Would I trade my S in for an xB2? Probably not. But, depending on how the test drive goes, it might look good next to it in the driveway. :)

At that point you can pay 3-4k and have the engine rebuilt ...


You can buy a replacement engine for $500, no need to spend thousands:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200055620321



As far as mileage, there are WAY more factors than just the engine and aerodynamics.


Gearing, rotating mass, rolling resistance of the tires, and more all come into play.


Also who says the xB is less aerodynamic than the tC? Want to see one of the most aerodynamic concepts in a LONG time? http://www.speedace.info/speedace_images/mercedes_bionic_concept_car_2005.jpg


Does not look very aerodynamic does it?


There are many BIG, HEAVY, Sedans with V8 power that get high 20's in highway mileage. They have very large engines, yet they still get good mileage..... how could that be?


The 2.5L 4 cyl in a Jeep wrangler (not the newly redesigned ones, but the 97-2006 TJ's) gets less mileage than a 4.0L I6.... Why? Because the 6 does not have to be driven as hard to get you where you are going. It turns lower rpm's when cruising. You get more torque, more hp and better gas mileage.... What is the tradeoff? Cost. Also I am talking real world mileage, not the silly EPA crap.


Take a look at the 07 Rav4's. Check the mileage between the 4 cyl and the 6 cyl. Yet another stunning example that bigger engines are not automatically lower mileage.


Now one thing to warn about, EPA is revising the way they calculate mileage for window stickers starting with 2008 models. This will cause the majority of models to show lower mileage, even if there are no changes to the car. For example say the 2007 prius is the exact same as the 2008 prius mechanically. The 2008 window sticker may show mileage as much as 40% lower due to the changes in calculation. See here for more info: http://www.mileagewillvary.com/


This new xB may be more expensive, but people are shooting wildly into the dark with speculations on mileage.


Take a look around the 1st gen owners lounge. How many threads do you see with people disappointed with the mileage of their xB? How many people are AVERAGING less than 25 mpg? Why do you think this is? My guess is city driving and trying to keep up with traffic. I am lucky in that my commute is all on 2 lane highways where I cruise at 60 mph for 20 miles at a time. I average close to 30 mpg with mixed driving.


I am willing to sacrifice 2-5mpg to get the added cargo space, map lights, more power, cruise control and many more features.


Lets take another parallel. My wife has a 2006 AWD Honda element. it has a 2.4l. Even with AWD she averages 22-23 mpg. Her element weighs over 1000 lbs more than the current xB. Do you really think that the new xB will get less mileage than that?



All you guys are quick to criticize, but like the original poster said.... Just wait!


I am looking forward to next weekend when I catch it at the auto show. And i am looking forward to test driving both the stick and the auto.


I am looking forward to seeing pricing, (especially the 5 axis version!)


I am very excited. About the only complaint I have so far is that the single offset reverse light is kinda funky.

5. The xB is no longer a practical car, no matter how you slice it.


I wonder how did you come to that conclusion? If nothing, the car is extremly practical. Now you can have 4 people in the car, and their luggage and go into the mountains with it all, at 75mph, something that xB couldnt do before.

Not to mention fold flat seats that make it have more space than most minivan's... or front seats that can be reclined completly for some fun with the gf.

There is a lot of bull being thrown around by current xB owners, but lets face the truth - Scion improved what xB owners told it to improve. If you guys didnt moan about 1.5 engines, safety and everything else, then xB ver2 wouldnt be like this today.

Remember, though, spwolf, that it was the vocal ten percent that called those changes, not the rest of us. :)

Tom

5. The xB is no longer a practical car, no matter how you slice it.



maybe for you but I know for me the new car is a lot more practical and a better overall design for what I need it for. Just b/c you can't find a way to make it practical doesn't mean it's not for everyone else.

Remember, though, spwolf, that it was the vocal ten percent that called those changes, not the rest of us. :)

Tom

How do you come to that percentage?

I've never met another xB owner who didn't want something else. It was power, windshields that didn't crack all the time, bouncy ride, not enough space for everyones stuff when you took more then 1 other person on a trip, more airbags, etc, etc, etc.

I've met plenty of other owners, current and former, and heard about their paint issues or the road noise or any of the above list. In short, I've yet to meet one who thought the car was perfect and should never be changed.

As for it "not being an xB" almost all cars go through a complete redesign at some point but still carry the name forward because it fills the same role as, or is spiritual successor to, the previous car.

How many times has the mustang been redesigned? Did it look the same? No, not even similar. Went from a rounded style to a more boxy style. Compair the '06 mustang to the '86 mustang or to the '66 mustang.

You're going on and on about a car you've not sat in, not driven and, most likely, not seen in person. You are making assumptions and then running around claiming them as fact.

If you want to share an opinion, fine, but don't make opinion based statements as if they are fact. Yes, maybe in your experience 90% of the first gen xB owners (and, no, it isn't a classic, it'll be years before it qualifies for that moniker, you talk cars then do your research and use the terms correctly) are happy with their car. But more then 90% of the SCION owners I've met, including xB owners, have a compaint about their car. Does that mean 90% if all owners have issues? No, just 90%+ of the ones I've met.

So, do you have stats to back up the 90% claim? That 90% of owners wanted the xB to stay the same forever? I'd like to see the link.

As for the new one being less practical, how so? It has more space and there's a good chance the MPG will be the same, or better. Anyone who has a clue on cars knows that the MPG for a car is based on more then it's engine. Any xB owner knows that it doesn't get the MPG listed on the sticker.

So instead of making a lot of opinion based statements, made in a vacuum of any kind of factual information, why don't you have a constructive discussion on it using the actual facts that have appeared.

If you don't like the way it looks, fine. But claiming it's less of anything then the former xB based on an image is crap. Claiming it shouldn't be called an xB is also crap.

Calm down folks. I'm seeing a lot of "everyone" this and "everyone" that, and it is not "everyone" that either likes or dislikes the new xB2.

For some folks the new xB2 is a better fit for their needs/wants.

For some folks the new xB2 is a poor match for their wants/needs, and they will likely be lost to Scion.

This isn't a reflection of the quality of the new xB2, but simply a reflection on how well it matches perceived needs.

*I* cannot tell *you* that the new xB2 isn't a match for *your* needs, and likewise *you* cannot tell *me* that is is a match for mine.

Some folks complained to Scion about many "problems" with their xB Classics: too small engine, lack of storage capacity, too small, no cruise control, etc.

Scion did an excellent job of listening to those folks who didn't like their xB Classics, and came out with the xB2 that fixed most of the problems those folks had.

Those they didn't hear were the ones who weren't complaining, the ones who liked what they had.

That is a large part of the "disagreement" between those who want to buy the new xB2 and those who don't, because of different needs.

The xB2 is an excellent design, finely tuned to "fix" the things that some people didn't like about their boxes. It will be loved by those folks who wanted those changes, and a whole new phalanx of buyers who want/need a tC station Wagon at a really good price.

There are those, however, who love for their xBs specifically because of some of the things that were "lost" in the redesign.

For that we quite simply feel somewhat abandoned. :(

We aren't saying the xB2 is a bad design, just that it isn't intended to meet the same customer needs.

Tom

(Pulse, you have a PM.)

Tom

At that point you can pay 3-4k and have the engine rebuilt ...


You can buy a replacement engine for $500, no need to spend thousands:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200055620321

I didn't say buy a replacement motor from a junkyard, I said REBUILT

At my current rate my engine will get to 200k in about 30 years.

All those engines will be long gone by then, or completely worn out, and my only option will be having it rebuilt.

5. The xB is no longer a practical car, no matter how you slice it.


I wonder how did you come to that conclusion? If nothing, the car is extremly practical. Now you can have 4 people in the car, and their luggage and go into the mountains with it all, at 75mph, something that xB couldnt do before.

Not to mention fold flat seats that make it have more space than most minivan's... or front seats that can be reclined completly for some fun with the gf.

There is a lot of bull being thrown around by current xB owners, but lets face the truth - Scion improved what xB owners told it to improve. If you guys didnt moan about 1.5 engines, safety and everything else, then xB ver2 wouldnt be like this today.

it is true that the changes mentioned in power, space, comfort and convenience was due to owners requesting for these changes in the next B. they asked how can we make it better and they did a great job with the changes. the car may not be the tokyo car that everyone wanted but lets be realistic. we live in america where a majority of the vehicles on the road are over 3500lbs. by making a safer B they had to make a heavier B (3085lbs auto) to meet crash standards and a 1.8L motor cannot move a 3000lb car.

for those who feel that the 1st gen is better that's absolutely fine that's your opinion, but i would leave it open until you see it person and drive it. that's what i meant in the original post cause i know there will be a huge amount of "haters" (excuse the word) when they finally see the car and drive it who will be extremely happy with the B2.

5. The xB is no longer a practical car, no matter how you slice it.


I wonder how did you come to that conclusion? If nothing, the car is extremly practical. Now you can have 4 people in the car, and their luggage and go into the mountains with it all, at 75mph, something that xB couldnt do before.

Not to mention fold flat seats that make it have more space than most minivan's... or front seats that can be reclined completly for some fun with the gf.

There is a lot of bull being thrown around by current xB owners, but lets face the truth - Scion improved what xB owners told it to improve. If you guys didnt moan about 1.5 engines, safety and everything else, then xB ver2 wouldnt be like this today.
Well, the two main reasons are the increased price & decreased MPG. Yeah, we dont really know any of those yet, but I can almost guarantee its gonna be significant. Especially compared to the classic xB. That model was EXTREMELY practical in every aspect to most people, so this new one pails in comparison, IMO when it comes to practicality.

Its funny. Those things you described that are practical to you about the new xB can pretty much be accomplished by any SUV on the road right now. Just saying, its funny. We each have our versions of what a practical car is, and yours is obviously more of an SUV-type car. Mine (and many other current xB owners) certainly is not. If it were, we wouldnt have got one in the first place.

And the "bull" you say from current xB owners is anything but. I dont see anything being said here that comes off as BS, its all legitimate concerns. Many feel that they werent represented with these new models at all & Scion only listened to the whiners & non xB owners. Its obvious now that thats what happened.

I just know that after I bought my xB & got the call from their survey people, I answered every question & had nothing but good things to say about my new xB. Was I represented?? No.

Just saying, for the few hundred that were complaining on here & to Scion, there were thousands who didnt say anything at all because they were happy with their ride. In any aspect, not just in automobiles, the complainers are ALWAYS louder. So now because of that, the classic owners are forced to look elsewhere when it comes time to purchase something new.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/07/nissan-looking-at-lightening-the-suger-y-cube-for-north-america/

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105329

:P

Tom

5. The xB is no longer a practical car, no matter how you slice it.


I wonder how did you come to that conclusion? If nothing, the car is extremly practical. Now you can have 4 people in the car, and their luggage and go into the mountains with it all, at 75mph, something that xB couldnt do before.

Not to mention fold flat seats that make it have more space than most minivan's... or front seats that can be reclined completly for some fun with the gf.

There is a lot of bull being thrown around by current xB owners, but lets face the truth - Scion improved what xB owners told it to improve. If you guys didnt moan about 1.5 engines, safety and everything else, then xB ver2 wouldnt be like this today.
Well, the two main reasons are the increased price & decreased MPG. Yeah, we dont really know any of those yet, but I can almost guarantee its gonna be significant. Especially compared to the classic xB. That model was EXTREMELY practical in every aspect to most people, so this new one pails in comparison, IMO when it comes to practicality.

Its funny. Those things you described that are practical to you about the new xB can pretty much be accomplished by any SUV on the road right now. Just saying, its funny. We each have our versions of what a practical car is, and yours is obviously more of an SUV-type car. Mine (and many other current xB owners) certainly is not. If it were, we wouldnt have got one in the first place.

And the "bull" you say from current xB owners is anything but. I dont see anything being said here that comes off as BS, its all legitimate concerns. Many feel that they werent represented with these new models at all & Scion only listened to the whiners & non xB owners. Its obvious now that thats what happened.

I just know that after I bought my xB & got the call from their survey people, I answered every question & had nothing but good things to say about my new xB. Was I represented?? No.

Just saying, for the few hundred that were complaining on here & to Scion, there were thousands who didnt say anything at all because they were happy with their ride. In any aspect, not just in automobiles, the complainers are ALWAYS louder. So now because of that, the classic owners are forced to look elsewhere when it comes time to purchase something new.

as a person who sells scions the larger motor and extra space is welcomed by me and everyone in my department. and i know all the dealers at the unveiling will agree with me there were many people we saw in the 4 years that bought something else because of those two key things that was addressed with the B2.

there will always be people that will like the orignal but as someone who hasn't seen or driven the vehicle i would be more open in judgement over the new B.

yes, there could've been a possibility where they used the 1.8L in the B2 and have it weigh 300lbs less but that would have been another matrix disaster and they would be back to square one in terms of the power issue. yes, they could've made it only 6" longer not 12" but like i said wait until you see it person because its still very much a sub-compact.

like i said in one of my post there were 3 customer profiles that bought the B1.
1: styling
2: space
3: mpg

why would B1 owners have to look elsewhere if that was the 3 reasons they bought it in the first place? you still get the styling factor and the space with the B2 and yes mpg will drop but not to truck or suv levels. if it gets 25-27mpg realtime driving at an average speed of 70mph its still very good mpg with more power. which B1 owner wouldn't want that?

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/07/nissan-looking-at-lightening-the-suger-y-cube-for-north-america/

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105329

:P

Tom

what was the point of the two links?

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/07/nissan-looking-at-lightening-the-suger-y-cube-for-north-america/

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105329

:P

Tom
You know, I never thought I would seriously consider the Nissan Cube until now, what with Scion sorta moving away from the extreme box design. I think Nissan is in an awesome position to take market away from the current classic xB owners this year. Good to know they are keeping it real with the boxy ultra city-car design, unlike some companies. :lalala:

That article said they expect the Cube to retail for between what the current Versa & Sentra go for, so thats like 14K, which is a great price if they dont skimp too much on the interior stuff.

I may hold off until they officially announce the all new 2008 Cube, which should be pretty soon I guess. Anyone know??

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/07/nissan-looking-at-lightening-the-suger-y-cube-for-north-america/

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105329

:P

Tom
You know, I never thought I would seriously consider the Nissan Cube until now, what with Scion sorta moving away from the extreme box design. I think Nissan is in an awesome position to take market away from the current classic xB owners this year. Good to know they are keeping it real with the boxy ultra city-car design, unlike some companies. :lalala:

That article said they expect the Cube to retail for between what the current Versa & Sentra go for, so thats like 14K, which is a great price if they dont skimp too much on the interior stuff.

I may hold off until they officially announce the all new 2008 Cube, which should be pretty soon I guess. Anyone know??

the article is nearly a year old (March 2006)

i wouldn't put my money on a company whose having financial difficulties on coming out with another sub 15k car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/07/nissan-looking-at-lightening-the-suger-y-cube-for-north-america/

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105329

:P

Tom

what was the point of the two links?
I believe the post immediately following your question may indeed answer you question, Rich.

Scion created the market, created the City Car niche in the US, but others have noticed, and if Scion and Toyota both abandon that market they created, others may move in. "Nature abhors a vacuum."

I'm recommending the nextgen xB to my non-Scion friends where it will meet their needs and style - I don't dislike the nextgen xB, I think it is a fine vehicle and I'm very sure it will do extremely well.

Scion is to be congratulated in so carefully listening to those who were somehow dissatisfied with the original xB. My only disagreements with the nextgen xB are the continuation of the name beyond the end of the model run, and the abandonment (by Toyota overall more than Scion) of the market niche.

I really believe that Toyota should have looked at the 150,000 xBs they sold and considered a follow-on vehicle that was in that niche.

I'm NOT saying that is what Scion should have done for it's next model, but that Toyota should have asked themselves "What do first generation Scion xB owners buy when a new vehicle is needed?"

Established customers are alway a valued commodity - they are much better than having to create new ones. All one has to do is offer them something to buy. :)

TOm

For a company that's was trying to draw in younger generation do you think they honestly were planning on those who have bought their cars within the past 3 years to really be done and ready to trade in? Couldn't it be that this gen XB was to grab those who they might have missed with the orginal XB and bring even more people into the Scion market and continue with it's plan on havin people move from Scions and upgrade into their other lines? Im not sure on everyone elses car habits but they probably figure that Scion owners werent likely to trade in after a couple years

You are most likely right, Fusion, and the nextgen xB is certainly intended to pull in a new flock to the Scion family, those not satisfied with the original xB.

The problem right now, whether Scion owners are on a 2, 3, 4, or 10 year replacement cycle, is that whatever the cycle, if that 'next' vehicle isn't in the mix of vehicles available from Scion/Toyota/Lexus, they have lost the customer they tried so hard to win.

(Plus there are always the "prematurely retired" vehicles that need to be replaced ahead of schedule due to accident or whatever. My first wife went through three cars in three years...)

"Upgrade" does not necessarily mean "bigger" and "replace" doesn't always mean "upgrade." :D

Tom

"Upgrade" does not necessarily mean "bigger" and "replace" doesn't always mean "upgrade." :D

Tom

Very true, maybe people should be complaining that they haven't come out with a more boxy looking vehicle within the Toyota or Lexus line for the orginal XB owners to move into 8)

my dealer just informed me that a $300 refundable desposit will be all the it takes to get the ball rolling. Thursday I will cough it up.

Thomas, you live not more than 20 minutes away from me. I have enjoyed reading your posts since I 1st checked out the site. You are more than welcome to road trip it with me to the moutains for a test run.

I am a player hater too. I can tell you how I thumbed down the competion on
I-90 :come:

and cheer up, we didn't get the mule posted everywhere

Aren't most auto loans 4-5 years? I got my xB in June 2004 & usually get something new within that 4 year window, just so my trade will still be worth something for a nice down payment & my auto loan will be paid (or almost) off. I believe most people do it that way.

So, there is no way Scion is gonna have something for people in my shoes in 2008 to upgrade to. And I sure as hell aint waiting until 2012 to see what the xB3 will be.

"Upgrade" does not necessarily mean "bigger" and "replace" doesn't always mean "upgrade." :D

Tom

Very true, maybe people should be complaining that they haven't come out with a more boxy looking vehicle within the Toyota or Lexus line for the orginal XB owners to move into 8)

I think I may already have said that a few times. :)

ANYONE anywhere near the cutting edge of any business KNOWS that retaining customers is much more productive and much less costly than beating the brush for new ones.

Scion was intended to be the “starter brand” for the Toyota family: Get people hooked on the quality and reliability of the Toyota family of cars and they would very likely look there first for their next vehicle.

The plans made public were to have a logical pathway, one car to the next, one brand to the next. Start with a Scion, move to the Toyota, graduate to the Lexus as one moved through life.
...
Anyway, Scion introduced America to the idea of the perfect city car: The Scion xB Classic.

The logical thing to do, now that there was a fanatical following in that niche market, was to expand the market, offer an updated version of that class vehicle in the Scion line - or even in the Toyota line - to give people a place to call ‘home’ when it was time for a new vehicle. If the ‘replacement’ vehicle in that niche was a Toyota, it would be a logical stepping stone for Scion customers to move up to the ‘next level’ of the plan.
...
Scion/Toyota/Lexus should have established a path for their customers - a reasonable, logical, obvious, step-by-step path to follow for their replacement/upgrade vehicles.http://tijil.org/blog/

Tom

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/07/nissan-looking-at-lightening-the-suger-y-cube-for-north-america/

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105329

:P

Tom

what was the point of the two links?
I believe the post immediately following your question may indeed answer you question, Rich.

Scion created the market, created the City Car niche in the US, but others have noticed, and if Scion and Toyota both abandon that market they created, others may move in. "Nature abhors a vacuum."

I'm recommending the nextgen xB to my non-Scion friends where it will meet their needs and style - I don't dislike the nextgen xB, I think it is a fine vehicle and I'm very sure it will do extremely well.

Scion is to be congratulated in so carefully listening to those who were somehow dissatisfied with the original xB. My only disagreements with the nextgen xB are the continuation of the name beyond the end of the model run, and the abandonment (by Toyota overall more than Scion) of the market niche.

I really believe that Toyota should have looked at the 150,000 xBs they sold and considered a follow-on vehicle that was in that niche.

I'm NOT saying that is what Scion should have done for it's next model, but that Toyota should have asked themselves "What do first generation Scion xB owners buy when a new vehicle is needed?"

Established customers are alway a valued commodity - they are much better than having to create new ones. All one has to do is offer them something to buy. :)

TOm

that tokyo city car is great when you actually live in a city like tokyo. i've been there twice for toyota and scion but a majority of scion owners don't even live in an urban city. i grew up in nyc and i go back every year to visit the family and i'd be lucky if i saw one xA or xB a day. i've been to seattle, san francisco and many of the major cities in the U.S. and they all have one thing in common, public transportations (subways, buses 24hr taxis). people that live in these urban areas don't need cars. if they want to get out of the city they rent one and if they wanted a car its usually something north of $30k. most scion customers lives in the burbs and when they go to work or school they have to drive on the freeway which requires more than a 1.5L. a 1.5 is great in stop and go urban driving where 40mph is the top speed but to keep up in U.S. freeways the car needs more. i remember driving the jdm bB back in january 2003. they brought over the 1.3L and 1.5L and i drove the 1.3L in irvine and i still remember people at the irvine spectrum staring at us when we were driving in the parking lot. when we left to hit the 5 freeway the 1.3L struggled to get above 60mph. when they asked us what we thought we all said don't bring that one here. the 1.5L is okay but not the 1.3L.

Scion was created not just for gen x and y buyers because that's what scion marketeers are always saying and it's true. one of the other major reason Scion was created was it was a way for Toyota to build small affordable cars again but they didn't want it to look like a Toyota.

there will be a good percentage of people that has the B1 and will probably come in to buy a B2, but what Toyota really wanted Scion to do was for people who wouldn't think of buying a Toyota product buy a Scion and if they were happy with the Scion would come back and upgrade to a Toyota or a Lexus. they succeded in that regard because there were a lot of Scion trade ins for Toyota in 2006 in their database. what they were able to do with Scion was grab 80% of buyers that were new to a Toyota product. 80% is huge and if they can get 50% in another Toyota product 3 to 4 years later is even better. they wanted to keep them within that family tree of Scion, Toyota and Lexus and hopefully get a Toyota customer for life.

its going to be the same for the B2 and xD. i guarantee when both vehicles are released this year you will get a lot of new owners in ScionLife whose never owned a Toyota and you'll get a lot who will be between 17-30 who knew about the 1st xB and xA and didn't own it.

For a company that's was trying to draw in younger generation do you think they honestly were planning on those who have bought their cars within the past 3 years to really be done and ready to trade in? Couldn't it be that this gen XB was to grab those who they might have missed with the orginal XB and bring even more people into the Scion market and continue with it's plan on havin people move from Scions and upgrade into their other lines? Im not sure on everyone elses car habits but they probably figure that Scion owners werent likely to trade in after a couple years

i agree!

a majority of the new cars sales will be to new owners not current. there's a good number of owners that have traded their Scions for something else. the people who buy the B2 and xD are people that remembered the B1 and xA.

As my daughter said, "Oh, it looks like a mini van".

there's a reason for that. the B in japan are called micro-buses which the american translation would be micro-van. we have vans, mini-vans and the B minus the sliding doors is essentially a micro-van.

but from a styling stand point it looks less bus or van like because its still short dimension wise with a wider lower look. to give the 1st gen the same agressive sporty look people had to lower or slam them with 18". the stock B2 has that look already just by adding factory alloys. why?

Overall length: 167.3 vs 155.3

Overall width: 69.3 vs 66.5

Overall height: 62.6 vs 64.6

Wheelbase: 102.4 vs 98.4

length: a foot longer would translate to a bigger car but in person the car still looks tiny because of the use of contours and angles in the design.

width: the car from the front or back looks like it can carve a mountain pass and with 205/55-16 series tires it looks like it can. cars that had that same set-up rsx type-s and last gen prelude.

height: this is what gives it an aggressive look along with the wider track. that's why i said most people don't need to slam the B2 because of three things. the width, height and stock tire size. trust me it looks sporty with just the upgraded factory wheels

wheelbase: 102.4" , 167.3" and you get overhangs that are really short to give it a great looking strong side profile.




One thing you should remember.. Yes it's wider and longer, but the car is more "rounded" thus making the interior room much smaller. Every "boxy" shape they take away, every corner they cut and make it rounded, you have less and less room. Those who have sat in it says it "feels" smaller inside and they don't like that compared to the Classic...

I'm not happy... I'd love to have the front end of the new b, molded to the old B... The front end and the instruments are the only thing I like....

I will not be buying one.

For a company that's was trying to draw in younger generation do you think they honestly were planning on those who have bought their cars within the past 3 years to really be done and ready to trade in? Couldn't it be that this gen XB was to grab those who they might have missed with the orginal XB and bring even more people into the Scion market and continue with it's plan on havin people move from Scions and upgrade into their other lines? Im not sure on everyone elses car habits but they probably figure that Scion owners werent likely to trade in after a couple years

i agree!

a majority of the new cars sales will be to new owners not current. there's a good number of owners that have traded their Scions for something else. the people who buy the B2 and xD are people that remembered the B1 and xA.
this ties into what I was saying in the other thread. I'll post it here for those that didn't get a chance to read it. It read:

Ok, I'm gonna chime in here. I've been reading through pages and pages of haters. Guess what? A majority of them are xB1 owners. Surprise, surprise. Of course you are gonna say what you have is better. That is human nature. Its like coming on a tC forum and asking which is better between a tC and a Mazda3. I neither love nor hate the new xB, so I will say this from an unbiased perspective. Do you know why Scion asked the "haters" what they wanted and not the owners? They've already got your money. Of all the xB1 owners on here, probably more than 90% won't trade in your classic box for a new one: whether because you don't like it or can't afford to switch cars at will.

They want to ask the people that DIDN'T buy the xB1 what they wanted so they could make them xB2 buyers. Get it? In a nutshell, Toyota doesn't give a crap what you classic owners want. They already got what they wanted out of you. They want the other guys to buy the new ones so they made it bigger, gave it a bigger engine, and even added projectors. So with that said, I don't think its as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I wasn't one of the people that went to Miami. Thats why I'll reserve judgment until I see t in person. I urge all of you to do the same. Some of the same people that dogged the xB1 before they came out are the same ones that are driving one today. If they kept the original design, their would be twice as many "box" shaped Scions on the roads by 2008. I don't think thats what Scion is going for. They want each model to be unique in its own way...not a stretched box.

Guess I'm a totally atypical car owner then. :D

I live in suburbia, in a small town abutting a larger town. Local population is around a quarter million.

Closest public transit stop is close to a mile away, and doesn't go anywhere I really want to go anyway.

If I hadn't taken a couple trips to Montana in my xBs first 10,000 miles, those 10,000 miles would probably have had less than 1000 miles of freeway use. Since around town mileage mounts up less than half as fast as freeway miles, that means probably less than 2% of my time in my xB has been spent on other than city streets. :)

From what you are saying in your post, Rich, I may be the only xB owner in the United States that uses my xB as a City Car. I don't think that's true, but OK. :)

Tom

For a company that's was trying to draw in younger generation do you think they honestly were planning on those who have bought their cars within the past 3 years to really be done and ready to trade in? Couldn't it be that this gen XB was to grab those who they might have missed with the orginal XB and bring even more people into the Scion market and continue with it's plan on havin people move from Scions and upgrade into their other lines? Im not sure on everyone elses car habits but they probably figure that Scion owners werent likely to trade in after a couple years

i agree!

a majority of the new cars sales will be to new owners not current. there's a good number of owners that have traded their Scions for something else. the people who buy the B2 and xD are people that remembered the B1 and xA.
this ties into what I was saying in the other thread. I'll post it here for those that didn't get a chance to read it. It read:

Ok, I'm gonna chime in here. I've been reading through pages and pages of haters. Guess what? A majority of them are xB1 owners. Surprise, surprise. Of course you are gonna say what you have is better. That is human nature. Its like coming on a tC forum and asking which is better between a tC and a Mazda3. I neither love nor hate the new xB, so I will say this from an unbiased perspective. Do you know why Scion asked the "haters" what they wanted and not the owners? They've already got your money. Of all the xB1 owners on here, probably more than 90% won't trade in your classic box for a new one: whether because you don't like it or can't afford to switch cars at will.

They want to ask the people that DIDN'T buy the xB1 what they wanted so they could make them xB2 buyers. Get it? In a nutshell, Toyota doesn't give a crap what you classic owners want. They already got what they wanted out of you. They want the other guys to buy the new ones so they made it bigger, gave it a bigger engine, and even added projectors. So with that said, I don't think its as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I wasn't one of the people that went to Miami. Thats why I'll reserve judgment until I see t in person. I urge all of you to do the same. Some of the same people that dogged the xB1 before they came out are the same ones that are driving one today. If they kept the original design, their would be twice as many "box" shaped Scions on the roads by 2008. I don't think thats what Scion is going for. They want each model to be unique in its own way...not a stretched box.



For your arrogance.. I hope they screw up the "tC" replacement and will mark this thread so I can hear you whine and complain about that vehicle.....

What gives you a right to call me a Hater??? tC owners shouldn't even have a say about the boxes.

Karma

Ok, I'm gonna chime in here. I've been reading through pages and pages of haters. Guess what? A majority of them are xB1 owners. Surprise, surprise. Of course you are gonna say what you have is better. That is human nature. Its like coming on a tC forum and asking which is better between a tC and a Mazda3. I neither love nor hate the new xB, so I will say this from an unbiased perspective. Do you know why Scion asked the "haters" what they wanted and not the owners? They've already got your money. Of all the xB1 owners on here, probably more than 90% won't trade in your classic box for a new one: whether because you don't like it or can't afford to switch cars at will.

They want to ask the people that DIDN'T buy the xB1 what they wanted so they could make them xB2 buyers. Get it? In a nutshell, Toyota doesn't give a crap what you classic owners want. They already got what they wanted out of you. They want the other guys to buy the new ones so they made it bigger, gave it a bigger engine, and even added projectors. So with that said, I don't think its as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I wasn't one of the people that went to Miami. Thats why I'll reserve judgment until I see t in person. I urge all of you to do the same. Some of the same people that dogged the xB1 before they came out are the same ones that are driving one today. If they kept the original design, their would be twice as many "box" shaped Scions on the roads by 2008. I don't think thats what Scion is going for. They want each model to be unique in its own way...not a stretched box.
Wow, great tC owner. You are so wise. Thanks for your jackass insight.

BTW, its not like us classic xB owners are just crossing our arms with an attitude like: "Haha, NOTHING can ever beat my almighty classic box! Muahahaha!!" I for one was totally ready for Scion to come out with something new that would wipe the floor with my current xB. In fact, I was counting on it so I could trade my current one in for an upgrade. Needless to say, this xB2 aint it.

Now, go back to your tC sports coupe forum.

My xB is the first car I have ever purchased. However, I have been a VW man since I first drove my Dad's 1974 Beetle. When it came time to buy my own car I knew what I wanted. Surprisingly, I bought my RS3 xB instead of an overpriced, understyled gashog veedub. From the first moment I saw the xB I loved it. The shape was unlike any car I had ever seen. When I bought my box I fully intended to keep it until it died and then place it in a garage somewhere to admire. I also planned on buying another one sometime down the road. I heard that the xB would be replaced and was excited, because here was a car that I could purchase when the time came to buy again. But, I am not sure Toyota intended the xB2 for me. Nothing about the styling gives me that feeling of "Wow." There is nothing about it that makes it the same class of car as my xB. I am not a Toyota fan and if they want my business they had better come out with something unique. That's why I didn't buy the VW, they had nothing unique.

In other news, I recommend Tomas' blog, if you haven't read it, for a great perspective on the xBs. He said what I would if I could write better. By the way, Tomas, I also use my xB for city driving 95% of the time.

To address the complaints leveled at the xB classic I say: we are car people. Since when did we start liking everything about a car that we drive? Car people buy high priced performance cars such as Ferraris, Lambos, etc. and modify them. That is what we do. No car is perfect, but we will make them as close as we can after we buy them. I think that we didn't expect such a drastic change because of the complaints. A few tweaks would have been enough for me.

But, in the end the xB2 will sell, and sell well. I will keep my car and hope that someone makes a car that appeals to me like my xB classic.

Guess I'm a totally atypical car owner then. :D

I live in suburbia, in a small town abutting a larger town. Local population is around a quarter million.

Closest public transit stop is close to a mile away, and doesn't go anywhere I really want to go anyway.

If I hadn't taken a couple trips to Montana in my xBs first 10,000 miles, those 10,000 miles would probably have had less than 1000 miles of freeway use. Since around town mileage mounts up less than half as fast as freeway miles, that means probably less than 2% of my time in my xB has been spent on other than city streets. :)

From what you are saying in your post, Rich, I may be the only xB owner in the United States that uses my xB as a City Car. I don't think that's true, but OK. :)

Tom

if you actually read my post i said "most" xB owners live in the suburbs but you make it out as the B1 is just and only an urban tokyo car. "most" B owners do not live in an urban city but live in the burbs where they need to drive to get a cup of coffee or newspaper.

Scion created the market, created the City Car niche in the US, but others have noticed, and if Scion and Toyota both abandon that market they created, others may move in.

Yeah, I'd pretty much have to drive to get to the closest bus stop. :P

I'm no longer "downtown urban" but still urban enough that a tiny, versatile, fun ride is a definite plus. I don't need to take a freeway to get most places I need to get to, and stop-and-go traffic is normal, traffic light to traffic light.

My xB has spent most of it's two year life under 40 MPH, on paved streets, dodging other cars. That's urban enough for me. :) (When I park at home, I am one of about 600 parking spots in my apartment complex - mine is covered, but it's not really SUV size...)

Tom

Ok, I'm gonna chime in here. I've been reading through pages and pages of haters. Guess what? A majority of them are xB1 owners. Surprise, surprise. Of course you are gonna say what you have is better. That is human nature. Its like coming on a tC forum and asking which is better between a tC and a Mazda3. I neither love nor hate the new xB, so I will say this from an unbiased perspective. Do you know why Scion asked the "haters" what they wanted and not the owners? They've already got your money. Of all the xB1 owners on here, probably more than 90% won't trade in your classic box for a new one: whether because you don't like it or can't afford to switch cars at will.

They want to ask the people that DIDN'T buy the xB1 what they wanted so they could make them xB2 buyers. Get it? In a nutshell, Toyota doesn't give a crap what you classic owners want. They already got what they wanted out of you. They want the other guys to buy the new ones so they made it bigger, gave it a bigger engine, and even added projectors. So with that said, I don't think its as bad as everyone is making it out to be. I wasn't one of the people that went to Miami. Thats why I'll reserve judgment until I see t in person. I urge all of you to do the same. Some of the same people that dogged the xB1 before they came out are the same ones that are driving one today. If they kept the original design, their would be twice as many "box" shaped Scions on the roads by 2008. I don't think thats what Scion is going for. They want each model to be unique in its own way...not a stretched box.
Wow, great tC owner. You are so wise. Thanks for your jackass insight.

BTW, its not like us classic xB owners are just crossing our arms with an attitude like: "Haha, NOTHING can ever beat my almighty classic box! Muahahaha!!" I for one was totally ready for Scion to come out with something new that would wipe the floor with my current xB. In fact, I was counting on it so I could trade my current one in for an upgrade. Needless to say, this xB2 aint it.
Now, go back to your tC sports coupe forum.
you just proved my point you tard. You are 29 years old. Maybe you can afford to trade cars at will but for all of the under 21 year old (and yes there are alot of them) they don't have rich mommies and daddies that will give them whatever they want. Most of us can't change cars at will, thereofre, we were not Toyotas target audience with the new box, and just because I own a tC doesn't mean I can't like the box. I think it is ignorant to say tC owners have no say about the box. In fact, I was thinking about getting one. stick with your "ALMIGHTY CLASSIC BOX". hate on hata

Tomi've been to seattle, san francisco and many of the major cities in the U.S. and they all have one thing in common, public transportations (subways, buses 24hr taxis). people that live in these urban areas don't need cars. if they want to get out of the city they rent one and if they wanted a car its usually something north of $30k.

Living in Seattle I can comment that there are xB's-a-plenty here! The reason: public transit is in fact not that great here and yes often my commute sees me going no more than 20 mph tops (including "freeway"). The xB is fabulous for parking in this city too.

Chris

How many days later and this is still getting tossed around?

The decision has been made. Scion will be moving forward wth the new xB. It will not be getting a name change. It may get worse fuel milage then the first. It may not be the answer to everyones gripes. None the less, it is what it is. Like it or not, deal with it.

For those who keep calling it a cult classic. As with life, every thing changes. People get old, gain wieght better fuels will be made cures for diseases will be found and cars will come and go. Terrrific if you found that the frist xB met every last one of your personal needs. You may be part of the minority and not the majority. Obvisouly Scion did take all this into consideration and decided to make what will now be produced. All the whining and crying under the sun wont change their minds. If your afriad that you wont be able to find parts for the car you currently own, then you may need to seek professional help. Its a car ... it gets you from point A to point C and every where inbetween. Can one be saddend that they arent making it any more, sure. Should poeple still point out that in thier opinion Scion made a mistake or Scion is a sell out almost a week after .... grow up. Change happens, deal with it.

Tomi've been to seattle, san francisco and many of the major cities in the U.S. and they all have one thing in common, public transportations (subways, buses 24hr taxis). people that live in these urban areas don't need cars. if they want to get out of the city they rent one and if they wanted a car its usually something north of $30k.

Living in Seattle I can comment that there are xB's-a-plenty here! The reason: public transit is in fact not that great here and yes often my commute sees me going no more than 20 mph tops (including "freeway"). The xB is fabulous for parking in this city too.

Chris

i do have to agree somewhat with public transit in seattle but its better than most. when i saw those tunnel buses i did a double take cause they were the weirdest thing i saw. i honestly was waiting for a train not a bus to come out of those tunnels.

maybe it was where my wife and i was at but i hardly saw any xB or xA but then again this was september of 2004. it probably has changed in the past two years but i've been in three major U.S. cities in the last 10 months and i still don't see "a lot" of B and A compared to living in southern california where mass transit is non-existent.