I wonder how did you come to that conclusion? If nothing, the car is extremly practical. Now you can have 4 people in the car, and their luggage and go into the mountains with it all, at 75mph, something that xB couldnt do before.

Not to mention fold flat seats that make it have more space than most minivan's... or front seats that can be reclined completly for some fun with the gf.

There is a lot of bull being thrown around by current xB owners, but lets face the truth - Scion improved what xB owners told it to improve. If you guys didnt moan about 1.5 engines, safety and everything else, then xB ver2 wouldnt be like this today.

 

Remember, though, spwolf, that it was the vocal ten percent that called those changes, not the rest of us.

Tom

 

maybe for you but I know for me the new car is a lot more practical and a better overall design for what I need it for. Just b/c you can't find a way to make it practical doesn't mean it's not for everyone else.

 

How do you come to that percentage?

I've never met another xB owner who didn't want something else. It was power, windshields that didn't crack all the time, bouncy ride, not enough space for everyones stuff when you took more then 1 other person on a trip, more airbags, etc, etc, etc.

I've met plenty of other owners, current and former, and heard about their paint issues or the road noise or any of the above list. In short, I've yet to meet one who thought the car was perfect and should never be changed.

As for it "not being an xB" almost all cars go through a complete redesign at some point but still carry the name forward because it fills the same role as, or is spiritual successor to, the previous car.

How many times has the mustang been redesigned? Did it look the same? No, not even similar. Went from a rounded style to a more boxy style. Compair the '06 mustang to the '86 mustang or to the '66 mustang.

You're going on and on about a car you've not sat in, not driven and, most likely, not seen in person. You are making assumptions and then running around claiming them as fact.

If you want to share an opinion, fine, but don't make opinion based statements as if they are fact. Yes, maybe in your experience 90% of the first gen xB owners (and, no, it isn't a classic, it'll be years before it qualifies for that moniker, you talk cars then do your research and use the terms correctly) are happy with their car. But more then 90% of the SCION owners I've met, including xB owners, have a compaint about their car. Does that mean 90% if all owners have issues? No, just 90%+ of the ones I've met.

So, do you have stats to back up the 90% claim? That 90% of owners wanted the xB to stay the same forever? I'd like to see the link.

As for the new one being less practical, how so? It has more space and there's a good chance the MPG will be the same, or better. Anyone who has a clue on cars knows that the MPG for a car is based on more then it's engine. Any xB owner knows that it doesn't get the MPG listed on the sticker.

So instead of making a lot of opinion based statements, made in a vacuum of any kind of factual information, why don't you have a constructive discussion on it using the actual facts that have appeared.

If you don't like the way it looks, fine. But claiming it's less of anything then the former xB based on an image is crap. Claiming it shouldn't be called an xB is also crap.

 

Calm down folks. I'm seeing a lot of "everyone" this and "everyone" that, and it is not "everyone" that either likes or dislikes the new xB2.

For some folks the new xB2 is a better fit for their needs/wants.

For some folks the new xB2 is a poor match for their wants/needs, and they will likely be lost to Scion.

This isn't a reflection of the quality of the new xB2, but simply a reflection on how well it matches perceived needs.

*I* cannot tell *you* that the new xB2 isn't a match for *your* needs, and likewise *you* cannot tell *me* that is is a match for mine.

Some folks complained to Scion about many "problems" with their xB Classics: too small engine, lack of storage capacity, too small, no cruise control, etc.

Scion did an excellent job of listening to those folks who didn't like their xB Classics, and came out with the xB2 that fixed most of the problems those folks had.

Those they didn't hear were the ones who weren't complaining, the ones who liked what they had.

That is a large part of the "disagreement" between those who want to buy the new xB2 and those who don't, because of different needs.

The xB2 is an excellent design, finely tuned to "fix" the things that some people didn't like about their boxes. It will be loved by those folks who wanted those changes, and a whole new phalanx of buyers who want/need a tC station Wagon at a really good price.

There are those, however, who love for their xBs specifically because of some of the things that were "lost" in the redesign.

For that we quite simply feel somewhat abandoned.

We aren't saying the xB2 is a bad design, just that it isn't intended to meet the same customer needs.

Tom

 

(Pulse, you have a PM.)

Tom

 

I didn't say buy a replacement motor from a junkyard, I said REBUILT

At my current rate my engine will get to 200k in about 30 years.

All those engines will be long gone by then, or completely worn out, and my only option will be having it rebuilt.

 

it is true that the changes mentioned in power, space, comfort and convenience was due to owners requesting for these changes in the next B. they asked how can we make it better and they did a great job with the changes. the car may not be the tokyo car that everyone wanted but lets be realistic. we live in america where a majority of the vehicles on the road are over 3500lbs. by making a safer B they had to make a heavier B (3085lbs auto) to meet crash standards and a 1.8L motor cannot move a 3000lb car.

for those who feel that the 1st gen is better that's absolutely fine that's your opinion, but i would leave it open until you see it person and drive it. that's what i meant in the original post cause i know there will be a huge amount of "haters" (excuse the word) when they finally see the car and drive it who will be extremely happy with the B2.

 

Well, the two main reasons are the increased price & decreased MPG. Yeah, we dont really know any of those yet, but I can almost guarantee its gonna be significant. Especially compared to the classic xB. That model was EXTREMELY practical in every aspect to most people, so this new one pails in comparison, IMO when it comes to practicality.

Its funny. Those things you described that are practical to you about the new xB can pretty much be accomplished by any SUV on the road right now. Just saying, its funny. We each have our versions of what a practical car is, and yours is obviously more of an SUV-type car. Mine (and many other current xB owners) certainly is not. If it were, we wouldnt have got one in the first place.

And the "bull" you say from current xB owners is anything but. I dont see anything being said here that comes off as BS, its all legitimate concerns. Many feel that they werent represented with these new models at all & Scion only listened to the whiners & non xB owners. Its obvious now that thats what happened.

I just know that after I bought my xB & got the call from their survey people, I answered every question & had nothing but good things to say about my new xB. Was I represented?? No.

Just saying, for the few hundred that were complaining on here & to Scion, there were thousands who didnt say anything at all because they were happy with their ride. In any aspect, not just in automobiles, the complainers are ALWAYS louder. So now because of that, the classic owners are forced to look elsewhere when it comes time to purchase something new.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/03/07/n...north-america/

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105329



Tom

 

as a person who sells scions the larger motor and extra space is welcomed by me and everyone in my department. and i know all the dealers at the unveiling will agree with me there were many people we saw in the 4 years that bought something else because of those two key things that was addressed with the B2.

there will always be people that will like the orignal but as someone who hasn't seen or driven the vehicle i would be more open in judgement over the new B.

yes, there could've been a possibility where they used the 1.8L in the B2 and have it weigh 300lbs less but that would have been another matrix disaster and they would be back to square one in terms of the power issue. yes, they could've made it only 6" longer not 12" but like i said wait until you see it person because its still very much a sub-compact.

like i said in one of my post there were 3 customer profiles that bought the B1.
1: styling
2: space
3: mpg

why would B1 owners have to look elsewhere if that was the 3 reasons they bought it in the first place? you still get the styling factor and the space with the B2 and yes mpg will drop but not to truck or suv levels. if it gets 25-27mpg realtime driving at an average speed of 70mph its still very good mpg with more power. which B1 owner wouldn't want that?

 

what was the point of the two links?

 

You know, I never thought I would seriously consider the Nissan Cube until now, what with Scion sorta moving away from the extreme box design. I think Nissan is in an awesome position to take market away from the current classic xB owners this year. Good to know they are keeping it real with the boxy ultra city-car design, unlike some companies.

That article said they expect the Cube to retail for between what the current Versa & Sentra go for, so thats like 14K, which is a great price if they dont skimp too much on the interior stuff.

I may hold off until they officially announce the all new 2008 Cube, which should be pretty soon I guess. Anyone know??

 

the article is nearly a year old (March 2006)

i wouldn't put my money on a company whose having financial difficulties on coming out with another sub 15k car.

 

I believe the post immediately following your question may indeed answer you question, Rich.

Scion created the market, created the City Car niche in the US, but others have noticed, and if Scion and Toyota both abandon that market they created, others may move in. "Nature abhors a vacuum."

I'm recommending the nextgen xB to my non-Scion friends where it will meet their needs and style - I don't dislike the nextgen xB, I think it is a fine vehicle and I'm very sure it will do extremely well.

Scion is to be congratulated in so carefully listening to those who were somehow dissatisfied with the original xB. My only disagreements with the nextgen xB are the continuation of the name beyond the end of the model run, and the abandonment (by Toyota overall more than Scion) of the market niche.

I really believe that Toyota should have looked at the 150,000 xBs they sold and considered a follow-on vehicle that was in that niche.

I'm NOT saying that is what Scion should have done for it's next model, but that Toyota should have asked themselves "What do first generation Scion xB owners buy when a new vehicle is needed?"

Established customers are alway a valued commodity - they are much better than having to create new ones. All one has to do is offer them something to buy.

TOm

 

For a company that's was trying to draw in younger generation do you think they honestly were planning on those who have bought their cars within the past 3 years to really be done and ready to trade in? Couldn't it be that this gen XB was to grab those who they might have missed with the orginal XB and bring even more people into the Scion market and continue with it's plan on havin people move from Scions and upgrade into their other lines? Im not sure on everyone elses car habits but they probably figure that Scion owners werent likely to trade in after a couple years

 

You are most likely right, Fusion, and the nextgen xB is certainly intended to pull in a new flock to the Scion family, those not satisfied with the original xB.

The problem right now, whether Scion owners are on a 2, 3, 4, or 10 year replacement cycle, is that whatever the cycle, if that 'next' vehicle isn't in the mix of vehicles available from Scion/Toyota/Lexus, they have lost the customer they tried so hard to win.

(Plus there are always the "prematurely retired" vehicles that need to be replaced ahead of schedule due to accident or whatever. My first wife went through three cars in three years...)

"Upgrade" does not necessarily mean "bigger" and "replace" doesn't always mean "upgrade." :D

Tom

 

Very true, maybe people should be complaining that they haven't come out with a more boxy looking vehicle within the Toyota or Lexus line for the orginal XB owners to move into

 

my dealer just informed me that a $300 refundable desposit will be all the it takes to get the ball rolling. Thursday I will cough it up.

Thomas, you live not more than 20 minutes away from me. I have enjoyed reading your posts since I 1st checked out the site. You are more than welcome to road trip it with me to the moutains for a test run.

I am a player hater too. I can tell you how I thumbed down the competion on
I-90

and cheer up, we didn't get the mule posted everywhere

 

Aren't most auto loans 4-5 years? I got my xB in June 2004 & usually get something new within that 4 year window, just so my trade will still be worth something for a nice down payment & my auto loan will be paid (or almost) off. I believe most people do it that way.

So, there is no way Scion is gonna have something for people in my shoes in 2008 to upgrade to. And I sure as hell aint waiting until 2012 to see what the xB3 will be.