ack154

iTrader: (7)

Here you go guys... more juice for you...

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/01/r...-more-details/

Someone seems to already "know" quite a bit about this vehicle. Judging from the pics though... I don't know. The gray one looks pretty cool but the red one looks like a Civic with a crappy body kit.

2_much_tc

it also looks like a celica in the rear pic. but that may just be me seeing that.

hotbox05

funny that they'd source a cheap rwd platform when subaru only makes awd vehicles and then diesel 4wd and rwd trucks/cargo vans.

and it does in fact looks like a 7th gen celie from the rear


i hope something rwd comes from toyota soon , the cheaper and smaller the vehicle the better. i'll even take 100ish hp long as it's rwd.

ack154

iTrader: (7)

Well the 100 or 120hp or whatever they're talking about won't be so bad if they can really keep it as light as they want to (2200 lbs?).

RedLine_tC

that will be sexy if they make it...i will def. trade my tC in for that

cessblood

I think the car look hot.

hotbox05

you guys think it looks good?

i hate the look but i love the idea and purpose of the car.

couper2

It's really important to remember that those are photochopped pics some toyfan mag made. They purposedly grabbed a celica for the back end, a xD for the hood and raked the windshield to look like the current civic. Knowing toyota and how they almost always push the evelope, this car will have a completely different looking exterior. Find it strange that they would borrow a subie platform. That doesn't sound like Toyota at all. Makes this car on a whole seem suspect. If this car is true I hope they don't use a subie platform. Otherwise, the low weight, 120hp and espcially the rwd sounds great. Do it Toyota.

Xanaduce

Why not, I'll add with my knowledge of Subaru, and slight knowledge of Toyota I can tell you the combination of a suby transmission and a rear end with a Toyota motor can be a ton of fun. A number of people have taken the Impreza RS platform, or currently 2.5i, and welded the differentials in a way the front didn't turn and it was 100% rear wheel drive. The stock rear has issues hold 165 HP motor they come with, but a cheap STI rear end with axle swap and these guys are running quarter miles at 14.7 fromt eh AWD at 16.7-16.9 and having a ton of fun Rear wheel drifting and being showoffs. The point is, Subaru is well awahey they have a surplus of cheap interchangeable parts that can handle the job, my current car can swap parts from several subaru's back int he early 90's actually. Fact is Subaru has the technology to do this, and their AWD system is still setup to be a full rear wheel drive system if needed, the STI can dial the car to be 80% rear wheel if desired. As I said Earlier the only Toyota product that's rear wheel drive is dealing with 200+ horsepower, and you need a much beefier rear to handle that much power, in essence it would slow the car down to use a current Toyota product, and cost more to redesign a new rear.

Also note Their is a ton of after-market support for Subaru out there and if they use an existing rear wheel drive system that also mainline over here, well I'd be willing to say most likely it will bolt right in.

Furthermore why shouldn't Toyota use a Resource that they have a controlling interest in. I'm not trying to bash any Toyota drive system, but Currently what models do the Toyota and Lexus carry in the AWD platform for the power range? Lets also face the Fact Toyota will make more money if they involve a fellow company the have a sizable interest in, and add to its stability to that companies revenue as well.

Bear in mind I drive a Saab 92x Linear at the moment and I'm a bit unhappy I have a 2 year model car, but trust me I was upset with long term warranty situations with my car when GM sold 8% immediately to Toyota and are relinquishing the rest over time to them.

couper2

I didn't mean to imply there's is anything wrong with Subies. They're great tuff all wheel drive vehicles. And yes with a lot of modification subie platforms can be great RWD'rs. But, they tend to be heavy and not quite as reliable as Toyotas. I see Toyota looking for something light to lend performance to the 120 hp engine and something more reliable. Regardless, what I was really pointing out is that Toyota hardly ever borrows outside their own lineup. It's just the way they do things. Taken that into account it makes the subie rumor seem kinda odd. Not to mention that toyota has plenty of 4WD vehicle plateforms in their line up to choose from if they wanted to go that route.

cessblood

Toyota should bring out something like the Celica All-Trac Turbo.

Xanaduce

I cut part of it out, but mainly I'm in makign astatement. Did you know on an awd suby its less book time to take the tranny out then to swaping exhaust manifolds and turbos? Also pulling a tranny out of a subaru is cake, as it is set up sinilar to a RWD car, to re-engineer an awd tranny in a setup liek that is nothing but swap this differentialwith this part and don't cut those wholes into the casing.

Also the weight of a subaru transmission, well my buddy's Celica All-Ttrac Turbo's tranny weighs about 15-20 pounds more then an STI, (alos is more fluid weight if I believe,) and note the rear crossmember and the rear differential on the all trac weighs significantly more then an sti/wrx/rs/legacy/other suby variant. I know a bit about the ALL-Trac's, but nto a ton. I agree Toyota has several AWD vehicle and a few Rear wheel drive vehicles but if you look under the Rear wheel Lexus Is350, and compare the tranny and rear end size to an STI's w/all bracing and you'll be very surprised how much beffier they are for a car with similar horsepower/torque etc. From what rumor said it was going to be a Toyota motor and talks with Subaru, (whom they are going to be a 20+% owner for within a few years,) and it just happens their factories are right across the street pretty much in Okinawa, it doesnt' make that bad of a sense at all, but the on the contrary, toyota has worked with GM on several cars in foriegn markets for years, I forget soem of the examples my EX told me about, but when you pull the ecm out on certain model Toyota's you see an AC delco badge and no mention of a toyota one or in print, its jstu been much smaller scale then most people are used to seeing is all. As far as other AWD toyota systems, anythign with Toyota awd and a motor that small that I know of, and i'm open to hear other examples, but anytiing I knwo of Toyota with a motor that small has a transverse engine, and looking at the fundamentals of the car they want to build, having too much weight on the wrong side in a car that light in my opinion woudln't be a good deal for handling and balance. I dont' htink anythign was wrogn with reviving the old rear wheel drive setups, but I think Toyota is testing out their investment, in a matter of speaking, and turht be known I dont' understand what toyota hardware can go underneath that car without making it a pig..... I also agree Id ont' know anything other domestic toyota, and I know the little tacomas for the last 6 years,a dn that the tranny is definately heavier then an STI's.

An example of what I'm talking about in the last G&F film yeah they dropped a killer JP motor in an old school mustang that started out a v6, but the v6 outperformed it, for some reason. The fact is you attach to hardware that weighs too much and it kills the power. Another Example I've been apart of an F-body project that we've done a rear end swap for a Mosler and the car did go faster, but we were shifting less over the gear ratio we went to, however we got beat every time by a car with less mods who did a smaller rear end with the same gear ratios. This is uniquely what I'm talking about. I don't know all of the old Toyota models and I'm not saying its inferior, but I can't understand what Toyota is going to pull out and re-work for a car that small, when Subaru hasn't changed their designs from when they were making standard models for 100-300 horsepower cars and can do a rwd tranny by bypassing on differential, and swapping it for a different part on its assembly line. Fact is I bet they're doing it to save the fundamental and the money form re-kitting their assembly line, its all about money and that's what Toyota has always been about and I do agree they give the best quality product when it comes to their FWD and RWD cars, however Subaru is 2nd to none in the world for an awd drivetrain, and I've read multiple accounts, as well as seen a few subaru's that clicked over 230,000 miles wihtout a headgasket issue, (their biggest problem, on the older motors.) Point is Toyota knows they can't make a superior product they can cheaply redo from their nieghbor when they already own part of the building, which menas its even cheaper to have them do it.

The sadist thing is I be the car still cost $18k and that's if inflation doesn't occur in the time in between.

Imprtracr1

I would prefer at least the 2AZ-FE. Even if the car gets built and they keep the weight down. My first car was an AE86 (Corolla GTS Liftback) and it was a fun car, but I think the same concept needs the extra power. The 4AGE just wasnt quite peppy enough from the factory without mods. The extra torque of the 2.4 im my tC would be great.

Imprtracr1

PS my 2nd car was an '88 AW11 MR-2 with the JDM 4AGE swapped in. I went through 3 motors in that car before I sold it and that guy put another 4AGE in. So 2 US 4As and 1 JDM 4A I can only assume he put in a US 4A in after I sold it. But I kept burning the bearings out of the bottom end from over reving and high speed Highway runs. Taching out for extended periods of time. Ahhh those were the days .. before all the Cops started being hired around my area. Anyhow I had more fun with the MR-2 then the AE86

hunterUnknown

iTrader: (1)

On the note of the original post, you guys have to remember, toyota releases a billion (exaggeration) images of various car ideas for every car name they come up with.

also, it'd be pretty cool to see rwd come back.

azepolyn

ok the red one is a ridiculous chop. xD -> Civic -> Celica
but does anyone else see the grey one's resemblance to a tC?

whatever this thing looks like in the end, I'm sure it will be a very good, light, and cheap vehicle. And who knows, with this supposed "cheap RWD drivetrain", we could see such an invention fall into a scion or two.

Imprtracr1

Well they are both obviously chops.. and IF it gets built and an IF it comes to the US in Fall of '08 as an '09 model it would probably be the tC's replacement since the model cycle is due to finish with the '08s

hotbox05

xanaduce. just so you know gm has not built any toyota's , but toyota has built many cars for gm

hotbox05

oh and it won't be the tc's replacement.


once the tc dies the celica comes back.

Xanaduce

That is true fror the most part, but it only takes one car to proove your statement is a lie:
http://www.japan-partner.com/Auto/93...-for-sale.html

So this is a figment of my imagination.... ALso j-body.org has a ton of info.

Additional content:
http://www.alljapanesecars.com/viewc...=1998&mc=TJG00

Also note Toyota's Interest in Isuzu also led to the construction of the Isuzu Hombre via Toyota/gm's general interest in the company, can you say Chey S-10? Wait till I wake up, I'm sure I'll remember much more.