I say go STS and do as many as your budget allows. No header kinda sucks tho.

I'm guessing suspension is by far the most essential area needing tuned for a good autox car. Hothkis sways made a huge difference. Now my kumho ecsta ASX's(.92g) are my weakest link. SPT's good for .96g. Which springs did you use?

 

I have Hotchkis springs. By themselves, I don't think they made too much difference in times or anything. But hopefully they'll help with sways. And I also have new tires ready to mount as soon as the weather doesn't suck. BFG gForce TA KDW2.

 

lets all keep in mind it doesnt matter who you're "head to head" against. you're against the clock, period. and most people will beat a tc with anything lighter.

 

You can change headers in STS, just better make sure the Cat doesn't get relocated more than 6"

 

tc's primary cat is inside the factory header

 

The test and tune in the tC went well. The car is going to be fun, it likes to rotate. I was on VictoRacer V700, stock susp., and stock alignment. I let one of the better drivers in the region drive it a couple of times he thinks it has a chance to run with the Mini in HS.

It rotates so much that I may put a bigger sway bar on it. But I'm going to work with tire psi first.

 

I think with those two mods ya should be much more competitive this season. I've been checking out the KDW's@tirerack-possible the best autox tire there is. Sway bars are going to greatly help also. A 40mph corner I used to take fast but secure@72mph with sways secure@78mph. I think with KDW's i'd be in the low 80's.

Do you know if coilovers are allowed in STS class?

 

I'm really not sure... I would generally assume yes... since they allow change of shocks/struts and springs. I mean, that's all a coilover is, in theory.

 

Thats kinda what I thought. Coilovers could endup being $800-$1200 paperweights if not though. Rather be sure before I even consider purchase.

 

Coilovers are allowed in STS.

I don't know that I would call the KDW's "Best autoX Tire" on paper they look good but 90% of the Nationals people run either Falken Azenis 615's or Kumho MX's and while I'm generally not the person to follow the crowd in this case if everybody is doing it it can't be too wrong.
STS is a tough class to compete in, The Civic's are pretty tough to beat, theres a "Mostly" nationally prepped 89 Si here that averages a time around 4 seconds ahead of what I was running in my xA, (no where near fully prepped) and I was usually as fast or a bit faster than the tC's and xB's here.

 

Interesting... KDW's show better lap times and pull more G's than Kumho MX's in tirerack testing. Maybe the KDW's are better high speed tires. MX's are about 2 lbs. lighter than KDW's: autox advantage?

I hope the tc's in your area are making a weak showing due to poor tuning and poor drivers. Seems like the tc's torquey engine would offer some advantages. However the heavy body could take all advantage and then some.

 

Ya, I'm usually in the middle of the pack for STS... but my g/f got my sway bars for my birthday... so that'll help. And no, I don't think they're the "best" autox tire, but I certainly expect them to help quite a bit over stock.

And STS is tough b/c it's a wide range of mods. Anyone from just springs or just a strut bar, to full suspension and some engine mods. There's a 88 or 89 Sentra SE-R that comes down from Rochester occasionally to our meets... he ususally wipes the floor with just about anyone in STS. We've also had some decent SVT Focus people show up. The Civics are usually either way... they usually end up being driver problems even if the car is OK.

 

91' sentra se-r 2414 lbs. 17.24 lbs./per hp
06' scion tc 2905 lbs. 18.16 lbs./per hp

2400 lb car much more tossable than 2900 lb car with glass roof. Does not sound like apples to apples to me.

So my question would be is the tc really autox-able.

$230 sway bars
$$92 front strut bar
$247 intake
$140 pulley+belt
_____________________
$709 ordered/installed

$600 tires
1100 coilovers
_____________________
1700 more needed to be have a chance

1000 wheels
$300 header
$500 cat-back
$150 motor mounts
$500 camcon w/tuning
$400 rotors
$150 pads
_____________________
3000 more needed to be fully STS modified
_____________________
$5409 Total + Many-Many hours of research and some of install

After this much effort + expense to make the tc a bada$$-losing to someone in a wornout SE-R would be kind of humiliating.

 

I don't think you'd really need ALL of that... as long as your suspension is setup and you have decent tires, you should at least be able to be competitive. But there's always going to be someone faster. I don't expect to win anything this year, but maybe a podium finish would be nice.

 

But, at the level of preparedness you're talking about, the winner will—more than likely—come down to attention to prep detail (corner-balancing/tire pressure/camber/caster/toe) and more importantly, no, most importantly: driver ability.

Also, autox is NOT about looks, it's about finesse, skill and prep attention...For example, a guy in my region cleans up in a rusty-beat-up-Rocco-with-a-coffee-can-for-a-tail-pipe. And, don't worry you will get beat by people with "worn out"cars....In my first season (in a GS '98 GTI) I got beat (three times) by a guy in a '96 Pontiac Grand Am...four door...automatic.

 

"'96 Pontiac Grand Am...four door...automatic."

OUCH Especially the automatic part.

So what kind of spring/strut or coilover setup would you recommend? I'm strongly considering progress or not-yet-in-stock buddy club coilovers.

Tire recommendations?

 

Some great info and advice here guys, some a bit off track though.

Yes, weight is the enemy, lack of control over weight is easily just as important as the weighth itself. A lite car that is not setup properly can be alot slower than a heavier car that is;)

Street Mod class is pretty wild but there are a few rules misquoted here, full interior except rear seat and seat belts must be used.

You can flare our the fenders as wide as you want and run huge tires(we run stock fenders and as wide as we can)

One really cool rule states you can replace any sun or moor roof with any material you wish as long as it bolts into the factory mounting locations. Since the tC has a dual moon/sun/whatever roof, you can replace it all as we did and saved 46 lbs and it stiffened the car alot! This made a tremendous handling improvement.

Our car in autocross trim will be approx 200 lbs lighter than stock but still a huge amount heavier than highly modified civics(due to their weight I believe they should be in SM2 though) which are very fast. The fastest cars though are more likely to be the M3, STI and EVO8 properly prepared which all weight alot more than the TC.

Since we do not expect to have a national championship contender in SM class(though very competitive in our area even though alot of fast cars here) we plan to run with our competition audio system installed just for the hell of it and suprise alot of people by just how fast this car can be

Last fall we were only half way done with mods and already suprising alot of people, stock power and the generally terrible gearing work very well on an autocross course;)

The best bet for anybody though is to build the car the way you want and just run whatever class you fall into. OR, pick a class and mod to fit that class and go for it.

Bottom line, have fun, learn to drive in situations you seldom see on the road, it may save your life someday, really.

Rick

 

The info I posted was based on street touring class.

If the tc is competitive in street modified then it should be even more competitive in street touring.

I like this part the best "stock power and the generally terrible gearing work very well on an autocross course;) "

With a strong suspension which STS allows the tc should be a sic autoxer! :D :D

 

Biggest problem with the tC is the roof of course but a really stiff rear sway bar helps quite abit with that issue.

Another issue with dropped cars is the suspension geometry get's really screwed up, roll center can be on the ground if you go to low. That equates to a long distance to center of gravitity, which is higher than it should be with that heavy roof. What you end up with is a huge roll couple which is a long distance from the roll center to the center of gravity. This results in a huge amount of leverage which transfers most weight to the outside tires(has very little to do with body roll;), you end up cornering mostly on two tires, overloading them, losing grip, slows you down.

We raised our car up 3/4" from the original fairly low drop and it improved the handling dramatically

THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE, is the crappy stock tires, run the softest, widest tires on the lightest, widest wheels you are allowed in your class but the most significant improvement you can possibly make.

That is talking about the car, the driver is far more critical than all other things combined but a good driver will be quite hamstrung with the crappy stock tires.

A basic upgrade for any tC to improve things the best would consist of and in this order:

Tires/wheels/air pressure
Rear sway bar
Rear Camber setting (pretty close to zero, helps stop understear)
Stiffer springs without a great deal of drop, maybe 1.5" max, I have not measured ours, I just test and run what works.
(spring rates are important as well of course but I have not picked ours just yet, still testing other things first)

Learn to drive, go to autocrosses, ask for an instructor drive, ride along, try to get somebody that regularly runs FWD if you can and in your class. I still do instructor rides as often as I can and still learn but it is hard to find one in a FWD that is as quick as what I usually autocross in. Since they are not used to the power and grip of a SM class car they are always alot slower than I am but I do learn a great deal watching and mimicing their moves in my head while on the runs!

Rick

 

can't wait to auto-x this year!!!

looked thru my photobucket for some pix from last year and found these


and a picture of my plaque from last year :D for winning my class


this year the car is more prepared then last year...

TRD Springs
TRD Shocks
Hotchkis Sway Bars
DC Sports Header
Injen Cold Air Intake
18 Black Tenzo Passion 5's wrapped in Falken Azenis Rt615 225/40R18
and hopefully soon.. a TRD strut tower bar... (won it pending shipment)