COOL then

 

all this talk of auto-x is driving me insane!

can't wait till april 1st... need to get the car out and get this season started hehe

 

Yikes! RT-615 225/45/17______24.9 lbs. My Kumho's are around 23# and the fly weights are about 20#. Almost makes spending a grand on a set of RPF1's seem like a waste.

 

This line suggested that you wanted to be one of the guys:
"and maybe next year end up in STS instead of STSL "

So which is it? One of the ladies or one of the guys? Each has their own perks but you only get to be one or the other. I friggin hate double standards!

 

April 1st?! I don't think our first regional event is until May 7th or so... Lame.

 

lol... wowser..
currently as this will only be my second year auto-x'ing by car.. and second year driving manual... i am sticking with the ladies class as i would like to be competitive... even if it means with other ladies...

i would like eventually to eliminate my handy cap.. which is not being aggresive enough and run with the STS mens class .. i have some work to do to reach the level i want.. it's a slow gradual progression that i have a lot of fun while experiencing...

i'll never be "one of the guys" i don't need to be... i also don't know why your so bent out of shape by my running in a ladies class.. but thats ok...

 

i thought april feels far!
sorry you gotta wait till MAY

 

The tC does alright in autocross. I've beat two of them in the box, one was a good driver the other novice. One fairly stock the other had some things with coilovers.

Honestly, you have to keep in mind you drive a 3,000lbs+ car with driver, its not the best handler out there. Rarely would you out handle a light weight car on the track unless they just didn't know what they were doing.

It doesn't completely suck, but its not that great either. At least, not what i've seen. Maybe with a great driver it would do better, but its still a lot of weight to pull around the tracks on a fwd car. If it was rwd, the weight wouldn't be an issue..well, not as much of an issue.

 

Killer, your comments are right to a degree but you have only covered a tiny bit of the reality of what makes a car fast car or not. You seem to have alot to learn buddy so I hope you can have an open mind and continue to mature.

Of course weight is always the enemy and the tC has a bit of it for certain and some in not the best places like the roof. It is also low and has a wide track and long wheelbase which is great for more open road situations, etc but the long wheel base is a bit of a handycap in autocrossing at times. Then again, it does help control weight transfer as the weight has less leverage on the chassis.

With a few mods the tC can become a very quick autocross car, ours is half done and already getting pretty quick. Though the gearing sucks for most things, 2nd gear is perfect for autocrossing and we have plenty of torque in that gear to really move the car nicely along, more so than it would appear looking at just the specs.

Though you beat a couple of tC's does not really say alot, what class they were in? What class you are in, what mods you or they have(except a vauge mention of coilovers)?

I will be posting some results in the next few months, once we start really getting our car dialed in, and you will see what proper modifications can do;)

Playing, do not let scolarbb bug you, obviously he has some sort of an issue going on, hopefully he will grow out of it in time.

I think ladies class is just fine and a great place to stay if you wish but I love seeing a woman driver kick a mans **** once in awhile, and no, I am not a womens libber, lol!

Rick




Your box is not the best autocross rig either, all that glass up high, not the best center of gravity on the planet now it is? ;)

 

I'm not bent in the least by you running in the ladies class-quite the opposite. My comments had to do with your comment about being more aggressive on the autox forum. Sounded like I was being scolded. My question was whether you wanted to be addressed as a lady or one of the guys? Which you have not answered by the way. Best of luck this year in competition-Give em hell! Or if you prefer- I hope you experience good fortune in competition this year.

And for the record raamaudio: if a lady where to school me I would come away being WOWED not ____ed. My view still stands that women and men should run in the same class as they do in drag racing. Which gives ladies the oppurtunity to be #1. However if autox ladies classes gets more women into racing all the better!

 

I think that SCCA Solo II is the ONLY motorsport santioning body that has separate ladies classes. (Am I right? Can anybody confirm?)

It was probably a good idea back in the day, but now it just seems archaic.

 

Women don't have to run in the Ladies class for solo II. In fact I think it is a tool to help make women that are new to the sport feel more relaxed when the are just getting in to Solo II.

My girlfriend is co-driving my tC for the 1st time this year and she doesn't want to run in the Ladies class and I'm sure not going to be the one to try and make her.

So some women will use the Ladies class and some won't, it's just another way for SCCA to bring new people to the sport.

 

I don't know everything, but i know what the tC can do and not do. I kept my post simple for the fact most people on this thread are newbies to the sport. I didn't want to further complicate by going into to detail.

I'd love to see this "few mods make a fast autocross" car comment. What are you referring to? Because i've beat a tC with tein basics, i/h/e, clutch, and a few other things. I don't care how much power you have, the glory of autocross is you don't need 300whp to be fast. Infact, a tC with that much power would be horrible due to how majority of autocross events are set up. Regardless of how many mods you have, you haven't even focused on the real issue. The driver. With autocross, your car can be perfectly built for the track however driver error is more greatly envolved with times than anything else. This isn't 1/4, this isn't a good driver with ___ amount of mods and power could probably do __ time. You tell me to be open minded and i have a lot to learn, but you yourself appear to be in the boat you accuse me of. I appologize if i seem upset, i'm not. But i dislike greatly someone trying to judge my knowledge due to one basic post.

Back to topic. A tC with mods doesn't excuse common knowledge, heavy and fwd. Now, FWD can manage great times. I do it in my box, and did it with my old integra. However, neither weighed 3,000lbs+. Heavy and FWD doesn't not equal fast times, its almost impossible because even with LSD you are going to be breaking the tires to the point of falling on your face compared to other cars. Why do i say this? Because i've seen it over and over again. The only cars i have seen, that are almost or as heavy as the tC (sometimes slightly more) and pull off great times are AWD cars. RWD and that weight does much better than FWD, however they do slide around a great deal when pushing it hard around some turns. Not to say they cant manage, they can definitely correct and control it much better than fwd cars can.

Weight, power to weight, gearing, set up, driver are the most important things when it comes to what times the car and you can bring. Anyone that argues with that, well thats just ignorance to the sport.

I'm not saying the tC can't pull off good times, what i am saying is the car is no where near designed or able to pull off faster times than light weights. With good-to-great/experienced drivers, mini cooper-s, miata's, civic hatchbacks, xb, xa, civic coupes, del sol's, m3's, STi's, Evo's to name a few are cars that i've seen (or personally done with the box) pull off very hard to beat times. The disadvantage the box has, as well as the xa is unless you are boosted or have 120whp+, your time will suffer an incredible amount if theres long straight aways. That is something the tC can do well, but handling? The weight and drivetrain alone hurt it quite a bit.

 

Raam; you'd be surprised to know the xb's weight isn't focused up high. It's not top heavy, yeah i agree it does look like it would be. But its not. The tC has far more weight up top than the xb does.

 

No one is saying a tC will wipe the floor with every car in it's class. You're reading WAY too much into this thread.

People are discussing how to be competitive in the tC. What mods work well? What should someone spend their money on?

No one is saying they'll beat everyone b/c they have an intake and coilovers. Just relax a little... everyone.

 

No, i realize that. But like many threads, it will get to that point. Almost all the vs. threads are like that, so i figured i would go ahead and point everything out now while the thread is still ahead. I am relaxed, however, i did go on further in the just previous comments due to the fact i felt like raam was challenging what my knowledge leads. Point being, i went more into than i had to just to cover everything so i could show him i'm not someone thats brand new to the sport.

 

Killer,
Your comments did not sound like a seasoned autocrosser, you came onto a tC thread and talked the car down with very little to back it up. You should know by now one or two or even more cars seen has very little to do with how a car can really perform. You pointed out the driver factor since your first post, though one was better than the other, unless you road with them, drove the car yourself, you just did not have enough to stand on with your comments. If you want to make simple posts dissing a car many of us love and some of us have very indepth experince with then expect to get jumped on a bit, just the way it is. Your comments sounded like some newb video game, magazine fed with not alot of real experience, sorry if you did not mean it but that was the way it read.

The tC has some serious shortcomings but they can be overcome, our car is 200 lbs lighter than stock. It now has a far lower center of gravity with the 46 lbs we cut off the roof with our CF replacement(legal in our class), alot more weight removed with the 14.6 lb Racetech seats, air bags removed, every excess piece of wire, not needed harness connectors, etc, studs and brackets that could be lived without, battery was relocated to over the rear axle, like .125" from touching it.... We have hundreds of hours invested into our car and the main handicap will not be weight, it will be FWD. The really fast cars in our class all weigh alot more than ours ever will(with the exception of some Civics that I do not think should be in the class, they should be in SM2) Anyway, check out the times of the SM cars at your next event;)

As for our car, it has alot more time to invest to get it fully developed.

For now we just installed an LSD, our own eurathane motor mounts, clutch, flywheel, etc, etc, looking into building our own custom lower control arms or else just highly modding the stock ones.

The entire chassis is filled with structural eurathane foam, costly and insanely time consuming, the car is so stiff it picks up a wheel driving up a ramp at an angle(that is fine, ramps are not on the courses or streets;)

We have pillow ball mounted coilovers but are changing to ones with height adjustable seperately from spring preload as soon as we can. I am trying hard to get some dual adjustable units made but nobody is interested, sadly. We want dual adjustable for many reasons but primarily so we can tune the weight transfer into and out of corners.

Now we have a welded in chrome molly roll bar and will expand that into a 6 point cage, combined with the roof the car feels like it is allready fully caged and more.

We will have more power than we need but that is not a problem, just turn down the boost.

For tires we plan on the A series Hoosiers, costly and not long lasting but the stickest available.

Soon we will corner weigh the car, once all weight is relocated, etc. and go back to our drawings of the entire suspension geometry and do whatever it takes to get it as perfect as possible. Right now the roll center is 2" above the surface of the ground and the roll couple is tolerable but we want it even better, why we are going to mod the control arms extensively.

We have some work to do investigating the factory specs on anti dive and anti squat as well but it is deeply intertwined with the rest of the geometry and will be addresses accordingly.

All this is within the rules of our class.

I just wish we could run a CF hatch but we cannot, and I have tried to get pexi rear and side window made but the only company doing much in that is not investing into any more cars as not enough sales to warrant it But, I could not use them anyway but others in different racing could and I voluteered my car to work the molds from even though I would not get to use them.

One more thing then I will take a break, well two

1) the box is a really cool bugger, I know they can be fast but if you replaced most of the glass with pexi it would blow your mind, it is top heavy in that regard, I can tell by looking, pretty simple really. Has anybody here corner weighed their box and while on the scales jacked one side up, then the other, then front, then rear and calculated the true center of gravity? If you are really serious you need to do this so you can then use the data from your current ride height, control arm angles, etc, to get your roll center numbers and see how long your roll couple is. Most lowered cars have the geometry so screwed up that most the the weight is on two tires for most turns, even if the car does not lean, not the same thing;)
(I had all side and rear pexi windows on my 1,700 lb 510 Datsun back in 1974)


2) In 2003 I ran a turbo Matrix in SM class in So Cal and twice was within 1/100th from second place and the car was far from dialed in, had to much power and to aggressive front brakes and my tires where no where near as sticky as those that beat me and many of those I was faster than;) The tC is being taken to a much higher level of performance than we ever planned on the Matrix. I do not believe we can build it into a national champ caliber machine due to the long wheel base and weight but it will certainly surprise alot of suposedly faster cars, I promise you that

Bottom line, if you are going to come onto a tC thread and make comments that deride somebody elses choice in automobiles then expect to get a bit of flack, just the way it is buddy

Rick

 

^
I'm just speaking truth. I'm not trying to make fun of the tC, i just spoke of two i actually raced against. I've seen a couple more, and i realize this doesn't include all tC drivers in terms of skill. However, the one with coilovers was better than most drivers i have seen with any car. No where near professional, but better than average. (not saying i'm professional)

As i've said before, the tC has potential to do well. But fact is, cornering is not a strong point. It sounds like you know what you are doing in terms of building a great road course/autocross car. But keep in mind, majority of cars and owners doing this will not go as far as you. So i'm speaking in general terms and conditions. I hope you understand, i don't want to fight with you or have some massive debate. I think we agree with each other, perhaps i just misunderstood you and vise versa. But don't think i'm a newbie at this, i just try to keep my post direct, to the point, hopefully helpful, and in words that everybody can understand. That way i can avoid as much confusion as possible.

 

I did get a bit long winded, upset, etc, not what I normally do at all buddy, if you met me in person you would understand, I have made very few enemies in my nearly 54 years

Believe me, if all I wanted to do was autocross and win, I would of bought an STI, EVO VIII or a used M3 and had alot less work to do and ended up faster, I knew this from the beggining.

I get far more satisfaction out of taking an uderdog, like the Matrix, and making a serious impression on those that just do not think it can be fast

It did not even mention the kicker on this project and a huge amount of effort and expense is going into making this a reality, we are going to race with our world championship caliber audio sytem installed including sound deadening, because we can

As you know, weight is the enemy but if you have to have it, at least put it too good use and we are. With the audio system installed, turbo, roll cage, etc, we will still be more than 100 lbs lighter than stock with far better distribution and control over the total weight of the car.

WHY would we do this Because taking a super fast car and making it insanely fast is to easy, bored with that. We are in the audio business and most people ruin their cars with horribly heavy and bad sounding systems. We aim to show you can have real performance and an incredibly audio system at the same time;)

(Besides, as mentioned we do not think the car is capable of winning a nationaly championship no matter how much money or time is involved, why not take off a few tenths and have some fun in the lanes with a cool audio system and then shock a few with our times

Besides that, we need to get published to warrant all the investment and we plan to do just that, without rice, without BS, with real performance in all areas.

Ok, you where speaking a fair amount of truth, the tC is not the best platform to choose if you are going to autocross, I agree completely. But, if you have one and decide to autocross, there are many things, alot of which cost little, some are free, that will make the car faster.

More importantly, encouraging even those with a totally stock car to autocross will help lift up the level of driver competence on our public roads, which is terrible, we need to encourage people to autocross, not tell them their car is not good for it;)

Rick

 

I do see your point. I'm sorry if i came accross as to shut the door on those with tC's that want to autocross. I was more or less trying to point out, if you do autocross, don't expect more than what is possible. I know an awfull lot of tC owners who believe their car can beat everything and anything. Which is a shame, its a nice car but people need to know the place of the tC when comparing it to other cars. It shows constantly on all these vs. threads. I suppose thats why i started off with the most negative because i'm tired of people putting down other cars, mostly honda's, to make the tC sound better.

Anyway, i do agree that you can use the weight to your advantage to an extent. But on FWD, its very hard to come ahead with that much weight. Its not impossible, but you really have to be a professional in the track environment to know how to use it to the advantage. Which, very few on these boards are professionals.

The best thing to do if anyone wants to start autocrossing. First go to a few events without pre-signing up. Don't run, just watch. Talk to other drivers, this is what i first did to get envolved with the sport. It's something that will totally benefit you due to the fact you can talk to newbies, and people that have been doing this for years. Secondly, learn your car. As corny as the saying is, you need to become one with your car. It's true though, you need to learn what the car can do, and what it can't do. It is possible to cause major problems and costly damage to your car in autocross and road courses. Next you want to start preping your car, if you have a stock car thats fine. But investing in at least performance springs will definitely benefit you more than you could imagine. Not talking TRD or h-techs, for the tC s-techs are probably the best. You could go on further with frame braces, sways, and so forth. But, you don't need this stuff at first. After all, you need to take it a step at a time. When you do start autocrossing, don't get ahead of yourself. Don't start off by showing off. Could end up hurting yourself, the car, or others around you.

To me, thats a well pronounced, simple start to the sport. Once you start doing it more often, you really start to catch on to what the car can do. Automatics, manually shift. You rarely leave 3nd unless theres a straight away long enough, 1-3rd gears is really what you use, so the last thing you want is to have the trans constantly shifting. Poor times as a result, and a higher % chance of issues with the tranny later down the road. Honestly, 1-2 you use much more than 3rd. But all depends on how the track is laid out.