TimmyT its a bad choice to use as an example
We are car entusiasts of one caliber or another. I really want to go, 20% tint on my rear windows and 35 on my fronts . Law here says you cant. They site safety but thats BS its about a Police officer being able to look into your car. I talked to a police officer She told me they only enforce tint laws when teenagers (probably blacks too) are involved.

Now i want to totally disregard this law becuase my belief is Its BS. I wont do it not because I fear the Law. Only Cause I cant afford the ticket.

On this issue I feel moral superiority.

Ok here is a non car related question to you

Jay Walking.
Walking across the street not at a corner. Agaisnt the law. YOu going to do it? You have known since you were a kid its against the law. Do you feel bad when you do it. Or see other people do it?

You said something about respect. Anything in the statement above smack of respect towrds me? You are a very judgemental person. Maybe you didnt reazlise that
In the above post you comment I am irrelevant.

It was clearly a attempt at a humourous post. Did you feel the need to demean me?

Really take care of you own and you will be allright. If it doesnt affect you in a negative way let things go. You will live longer.

 

Ok I am a retired street racer on my way to being a professional drag racer, am considered an amature right now, not enough track time events. ok I drove around the streets with a 600hp+ honda for a good 4 months while breaking in the engine, but the previous engine was 448hp and 309tq on the last dyno which the car was daily driven. Everyone doesn't understand what we go through out here in cali unless you live out here. I ran the street races in the antelope valley where I live for the longest time. I didn't get busted at the last raid but I was there and left before it happend after warning all my friends in different clubs, 144 tickets 7 car impounded and so on. I was pulled over atleast 3 times a week when they opend the new police station out here, since I have had my box havn't been pulled over, have a full exhast highflow cat back with no resonator cops don't even look at me. So I don't know what you are worried about. I don't mean to bash and stuff but when someone say you stupid honda's ruined it for us that is wrong. Stupid people ruined it for the rest of us. it's call there is a time and a place for everything, including racing and driving fast. Oh not to mention I never got any tickets for anything other than no front licence plate or stupid ____ like fuzzy dice in the mirror except for one about modified exhaust and I told this young cop that it is my race car and I was just out to clear the engine for a mile or two and he said just drive it home. not to mention I have over $30,000 of illegal parts under the hood! no joke here.

 

If you took the time to study the original constitution and amendments that do not break the original intent of the heart of it, you would find that we are living under and extremely bastardized version of what this country was founded for. In other words, MOST of the current laws are in direct violation of our constitutions original intent.

What can we do, nothing.

But at least we can logically and reasonably look at the world around us and see and smell the BS that has become LAW in this country.

Just because it is a law has nothing to do with it being right or wrong. laws are written every day to take just a little more away from us and give the power to those over us.

Case in point, I lived in So Cal for many years where tens of thousands of gross poluting cars came over the border every day, unchecked, unsually no insurance, many not safe to be on the road. But my turbo Matrix with exceptionally clean exhaust was pulled over for a loud exhaust that honestly was dead quite, got a ticket, went to a referee, saw the judge, put on probation for a year and for what? Because I was an easy target and politically correct to go after?? F'ing A RIGHT!

I spent a very long two days making my car "legal", another day at the Referee and in court, that night started putting F'ing turbo back on

Fine thing was I never drove the car on the street unless to a race or show, it ran very clean(unlike the thousands of old muscle cars in CA, or all the damm loud **** stinky Harlesy and tens if not hundreds of thousands of out of country cars) on the road.

Since the laws are so politically correct and out of touch with reality, I obey the ones that make sense and get away with as much as I can about the rest of the BS.

If you do not understand the difference, pull it out and get some fresh air

Rick

 

^^^
All i can say is Thats Farking Kalifornia

 

In regards to automobiles, it is well known within my state that it is illegal to modify your car in ANY way, shape or form. I am sure that it this way in many states. You can call this a means for government to protect the people against illegal street racers or as a whittling away of our individual freedoms.

To get directly to your point, our society has created such a network of laws that it is impossible not to break some law every day- honestly. We are quickly achieving a police state, where not only what you say/do can endanger you, but also what you do NOT say or do.

Case in point- the government is currently trying to pin the death penalty on Zacarias Moussaoui because of what he did not say.

While I strongly beleive he should go to jail for life, the government seems to know no bounds in keeping us all "safe from the terrorist threat."

Really, we all have bigger things to worry about.

 

The example of car modification was to put in a light we can relate to.

But it was just that. An example.

The question is:
How?
How can people break laws, however minor or insignificant they may be, and haven't a second thought about it.

Being retired military. I still do not walk on the grass anywhere due to habit.
Military guys should know what I mean.

 

I am retired miltary as well, if I did not break any rules there I could not of done my job very well many times. I also broke a few laws to get the job done better, faster and for less money. Which is right, laws that make no sense or breaking them to do things right and better serve my country;)

(P.S. I always put my guys and my job ahead of my career and I paid for that but would not change a thing as I accomplished more that just about anybody I met during my career and am proud of myself for doing so;)

Rick

 

Being Out of the navy now for the last 20 odd years. I always walk all over the grass
That of course being cause of signs in norfolk virignia saying
DOGS AND SAILORS KEEP OFF GRASS

Ahh yes the days of supply chain deals
BTW you can visit a site i help admin on called
www.usscapodanno.org

 

In no way grouping you into this general description as just a few posts on a forum do not give enough info to " pass judgement" so to speak. BUT, in my experience, those that followed the rules exactly did so because they derived their strength from the rules instead of from within them selves.

Again, not pointing any fingers buddy, three of us are retired military here and those that are not may never understand the sacrifices we made to serve our country, even if we did so in peace time or not. I have spent alot of time around the Air Force, Coast Guard and Marines and have alot of respect for them all, retired Navy myself.

Rick

 

Because some of are not mindless robots, Timmy, and enjoy the freedoms you and others have supplied us with.

Are you just recently discharged or something? This is not a jab at you at all but an honest question because you remind me of two of my good friends who were Airborn and served in Bosnia. I can understand how you've come to be this way, but its way different in the civi world man. When we don't do what we're told, people don't necessarily die.

 

I come from a military family, going back some 4 generations, and have lived on a miltary post all my life. Except for now where I am chapter 31 medically retired and going back to school.

So follow the rules was thouroghly emphasized in my child hood and transition to adult.

ACAP'ing didn't do anything to remove things that have been common place since I was an infant.

 

I know the facts, but honestly it sounds more like some one fresh out of boot camp to me

 

1. The army doesn't have "Boot camp"
2. If you knew what a chapter 31 is then 1 doesn't even apply.

You know the facts, and once again a post totally off topic and not constructive.

 

This military business is all off topic.

My POV is that CARB laws are good ideas but they've turned into a beaurocratic nightmare like many other things.

Getting a header, IMO, should be illegal if it doesn't have a cat. But if a new one is added and it still passes emissions shouldn't it be legal then? Eh, oh well. Like RAAMaudio, I listen to the laws that make sense to me. It's a little irresponsible, I admit, but it makes sense to me :D

An example of my logic is that I'm not getting a header anytime soon but I do plan on getting an s-pipe back exhaust with a new hi-flow cat. In that way I don't make any more emissions AND I get my performance. I'm also getting the Turbonetics turbo if it passes CARB so I can get the kit with the cat.

That's just what makes the most sense to me/

 

Against the law to jay walk. Do you do it? Why?
If your so worried about people breaking innocuos laws. Use your rehab funds to get into police science. Become a cop and protect us from these scurillous illegal parts users

 

14th you are seriously mis understanding this thread.

Its not the act of breaking laws. Its the lack of integrity I am concerned with.

 

After reading all this, what nags at me most, TimmyT, is that you seem to think a crime like using non CARB approved parts is just as indicative of a lack of integrity as street racing, or any other reckless/violent/negligent crime.

On the one hand, you've got (possibly) more particulates being sent into the air, from a car that already has far less emissions than a ton of other things on the road... which doesn't directly harm anyone, any more than they're already being harmed.

On the other hand you've got an activity that not only endangers the life of the person who participates, but also the lives of anyone who might end up in the wrong place at the wrong time when the street racer is doing his thing. (Not to mention the long-run demographics type damage that we all end up paying for in police pull-overs and insurance rates.)

All that being said, it seems like you are more concerned with the rules than you are with common sense. I tend to do my own thinking, because the people who make the laws are just as imperfectly human as the rest of us... I follow my own moral standard, and I've never had trouble with the law.

I guess it comes down to a moral question something like.. "If a man jaywalks in the forest and nobody is around to see it, should he feel guilty?" To which lots of people would answer, "heck no", because most of us have plenty of REAL things to stress about.

If nobody is getting hurt, I don't see how that shows a lack of integrity. Maybe a lack of BAA-A-A-A (sheep noise). It really is shades of grey.

That's my $0.02. Interesting thread btw.

 

It is the actual act and no remorse.

If i do something that breaks a minor law. (like the carb law, littering etc) its not the breaking the law that irks me.
I could care less if a bubble gum wrapper is chillin' at a park somewhere on the ground.

But I know i did something wrong, even though no one else does, and it compels me to pick up the wrapper and throw it away.

So even though I understand why people do things that break minor laws. I don't understand "how".

"Its a stupid law and it doesn't hurt anyone. So i don't feel bad doing it." just doesn't make sense to me.

Carb and emission laws in california are there for a reason. The quality of air hurts many people especially in california. Since the majority of california is a valley. Air pollutants etc. Linger and don't blow away.

I personally only know one person that is severly affected by air quality, but it only takes that one.

so I definitly don't accept the "it doesnt' hurt anyone" justification to breaking emission laws in california.

And for all the other little laws that people break and "don't hurt anyone". I am sure you could find just that "one" that makes the statement untrue.

And if you revise the statement to "It doesn't hurt anyone I know".

It just turns to be a selfish act and a lack of compassion for your fellow man.

 

the problem is no companies spend the extra time and money to make legal parts. it looks bad on them , and it hurts the industry. DEEPLY.

 

actually the VAST aka 90% of parts that are illegal to carb WILL and COULD pass smog tailpipe tests which bottom line is the only thing that matters. but since the company of manufacture didn't pay the california air resources board to the tune of about 30,000 it's illegal.

they are VERY stupid laws. but there's nothing anyone can do but NOT buy anything since about 90% of scion power mods are illegal or scrounge and buy the much more expensive and much more scarce/crappier legal parts.


hell even radical turbo kits and radical supercharger kits on most cars don't change the emissions so much as to go from clean to a polutter. yes it raises them but all stage 1 or equivelent kit's i've ever come across on MULTIPLE cars by MULTIPLE manufacturers PASS the tailpipe tests for our state of cali the MOST strict air quality tests in the world pretty much. at least for auto's.

yet the company greddy for example with their awesome xa/xb superchargers PASS sniff tests . i've seen it happen . lol yet no carb placard oops your CLEAN burning. MUCH better and enjoyable than stock car is 100% illegal and can be toweed , impounded /sold or you can go to jail. up to a 5k fine. , court dates , court fees. it's complete BULLSHEET.

they say theyre doing these non carb parts searches to stop racing yet a car with teh same mods or more mods which is faster than anotehr car is legal yet the slower car is illegal. if they want to use this as a way to stop racers make any and all modifications illegal ..

PERIOD .

ANY AND ALL.

but no. they claim it to be air resources. it is garbage.

makes me want to go get a 90's civic hatch so I can get a LEGAL greddy kit and have 140whp in a 1800 pound car and run 12's or 13's on the street. much more dangerous but hey it's legal.

yeah let that on the street but impound a 14.xx second supercharged xb.

oh and the camaro/mustang guys? i know that it just has to bhappen BUT . I have never seen a cop pull them over for their INSANELY loud exhausts , let alone pop their hoods. yeah that's fair.

nothing like targeting.

and almost all illegal races in sac(at least ) involve at least 1 import and at least 1 domestic............

i'm not saying the domestic muscle car guys don't get hassled but whenever i'm out on a weekend night i'll see at least 4 or 5 imports pulled over with their hoods popped but in the past 6 years or so have only seen 5 domestics pulled over. in a course of 5 or 6 years..........

yet every week I see AT LEAST 10 imports getting their hoods popped.

now i know each case is different aka jackarse driver or what have you but I can't help but see what I see.........