And did it's author tell you about the symbolism or are you rationalizing to make it more credible?

 

In the true sense of the word, some Christians can be characterized as psychotic, but since Psychology isn't a proven science can it be a true diagnosis?

 

It literally says
12 tribes x 12000 each tribe. Do you mean 12000 is supposed to be an arbitrarily large number?

 

Rationalization.

The same reason the church gave up the old testament. It was too insane to keep the religion growing, so they 'toned it down' to make it more mainstream.

 

Um and exactly where did you hear this from? You do realize they teach it in colleges and people get doctorates in it right? And it is basically the basis for all psychiatry and neurology that we know right? It might not be perfected, but no science is yet. That hardly makes it not a proven science.

 

George Bush said, "'God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did..."

Psychotic? Or not?

 

Amen.

 

It was a vision given to John through an angel... It is pretty obvious that it is at least symbolic

 

I too would like to say props to everyone for keeping this debate civil!

 

It's unproven because it isn't consistent.

 

If you replaced the word angel with demon, you would probably be locked up in an institution. Instead, society as a whole deemd him "enlightened".

 

Just because something is taught doesn't make it correct. Kinda like religion.

 

here's something interesting: In developing the theory of relativity, Einstein realized that the equations led to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. He didn't like the idea of a beginning, because he thought one would have to conclude that the universe was created by God. So, he added a cosmological constant to the equation to attempt to get rid of the beginning. He said this was one of the worst mistakes of his life. Of course, the results of Edwin Hubble confirmed that the universe was expanding and had a beginning at some point in the past. So, Einstein became a deist - a believer in an impersonal creator God.

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

It is the second part of the quote that reveals the reason Einstein rejected the existence of a personal God. Einstein compared the remarkable design and order of the cosmos and could not reconcile those characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human existence. How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that exists on earth?

Einstein's failure to understand the motives of God are the result of his incorrect assumption that God intended this universe as His ultimate perfect creation. Einstein could not get past the moral problems that are present in our universe. He assumed, as most atheists do, that a personal God would only create a universe which is both good morally and perfect physically. However, according to Christianity, the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can choose to love or reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity. It would not be possible to make this choice in a universe in which all moral choices are restricted to only good choices. Einstein didn't seem to understand that one could not choose between good and bad if bad did not exist. It's amazing that such a brilliant man could not understand such a simple logical principle.

 

Skeorx13, let's change what you said just a little:
You do realize they teach religion in colleges and people get doctorates in it right? It might not be perfected, but no religion is. That hardly makes it untrue.

 

How many cases of illness have been cured with a degree in religion? With a degree in Psych? As others before me said... nuff said.

A degree in religion is simply a degree in the history of religion. It has no practical applications such as curing the ill as psych does.

 

Ahem...there is no cure for psychiatric illnesses. The medicines can only relieve the symptoms.

 

Ok, well can you explain how exactly it has been unproven as a science?

 

Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

 

Since a degree in religion has no practical (or impractical)medical application why did you even compare the two?

 

It has no consistency in true life applications :. you can't have a control to base your findings on.