What gives black people the ownership of a word. That's bull, buddy. Just because someone is black does not make it right for them to use the N-word. Are you driven by hip-hop culture, sir? Is your mind so feeble to believe that it is alright for one and not the other. I am sorry, but that is equality in no way, shape, or form.

 

It IS, however, common.

I'm Polish, and politically correct or not WE use words and tell jokes about ourselves that would be "fightin' words" used by others.

Most groups do the same.

A black minister speaking to a black congregation can and does use words and phrases that might require a SWAT response elsewhere.

That IS legit, that IS the real world.

Heck, just think back to how you and your siblings talk to and about each other, or those few of you who are or have been military, think about the terms you used toward your brothers in arms...

Acceptable language in a close group is totally different than the language they will accept from outside.

Even a 'CA' should recognize that.

Tom

 

Personal attacks do little to show ones intelligence or point in a debate...

Our culture is FULL of words that one group can say and that others cannot. I know many ___ people who freely call themselves queers, f**s, and all manner of names other than homosexual. I would never call them those words. Why? Because I understand that when I'm not of a certain group, some things are inappropriate to say.

I call my little sister names all the time, but if someone I never met called my sister stupid, we'd have a problem.

Girls call each other b****es all the time. I would never call a woman a b****. No matter how cool I was with her. It's just not something a respectful man should say to a woman. Does it bother me that woman can call each other a b**** and I can't? Absolutely not.

We get so caught up in our right to say something that we never stop and think whether or not we should.

The question is really why do White people feel the need to say the word N****r so badly.

 

im bush i only care for oil big buissnes and letting mexicans flood out country to kill the middle class


end of story

 

And? So did I. From whites and blacks... hell, chinese, koreans, arabs, latinos... (damn!) It sucked. I got over it.

Straight up dude, as someone not belonging to any of the 3 major race groups in America, whose people were also brought to this hemishpere as servants, America is the shiznit. The American who says he can't make it because of outside influences just isn't trying very hard. I did it with no good old boy network, no civil rights group, no old money, no special priviledges, not much family, no programs just for me, oppressed by whoever could get away with it, doing more, getting less, never on the damn quota, and always on the freakin' bubble.

And being born and growing up in a black community, Bedford Stuyvestant in Brooklyn, I can attest to the fact that Obama is right. Church is important. Why? Because like I said, if life isn't going your way in this country, you just aren't trying hard enough. But what would make a young black man try harder? Telling him what color the guy is with all the money? Or telling him he can succeed, and then helping him do it? Even if both paths lead to success, which one leaves the young man with a better mindset and outlook on life? I'm not much for religion, but people who are would probably agree that church should be a positive place. It was for my friends, many of whom have reached their goals, and others who are still trying.

So you can see why whites, and latinos, and chinese, and even other blacks might be like, 'Hold up... what are we getting into here?' when Wright says things like what he said, especially when according to democrats, there is another candidate who is just as good as Obama with no militant preachers in her closet.

Barrack might not be like Wright, but he was influenced by the man. The man led him to Christ(?)... coincidentally about the time Obama was getting into community service, on the way to politics, he joined this man's 8,000 member church and found god. Yeah... people have questions.

And as far as the argument on TV that black churches are more passionate than other churches, while it may be true, I'd just like to end this with two quotes from Booker T. Washington, a famous black man in American history. Mind you, just because he says it doesn't make it right, but I happen to agree. And think about the timeframe when he said it.

 

You've witnessed first hand your own family members being shot and killed by the same people who were sworn to protect you? You live in a nation where your own constitution once stated that you were only 3/4 of a human being? Your government gave members of your race syphilis just to see what the outcome would be?

Do we just tell the people who lost their family members in 9/11 to just get over it? Do you tell a mother who lost her son in the war the same thing? When is the cutoff point? People go to therapy for years just because they got yelled at by their parents. It's a amazing that some think that those who endured far worse would be able to all of a sudden bounce back like nothing happened.

I'm one of the 3 major race groups. I don't qualify for any special privileges. I don't have "old money" and no good old boy network. No programs I qualify for either since my parents actually stayed together. I'm from a really rough neighborhood, and I'm going to school for my masters. FYI, all minorities don't get hand outs. Even those in the "top 3".

The difference between me and you? I realize how hard it was for me to get where I am, and I am intelligent enough to realize that everyone is not going to have the planets align in just the right way for them as they did for me. It's unrealistic to believe that with hard work, anyone can succeed in America. That's just flat out untrue. If you or I have made it this far, we should be thankful, but to look down on others and to label them as lazy, or a complainer is arrogant and a perfect example of why race issues are STILL as bad in 2008 as they have been for years.

Who are you to say that that was NOT what was taught by this specific Pastor? We've taken one soundbyte, from one speech, that was said YEARS ago, and basically created an entire false persona. You know what I did when I saw the 9/11 attacks on TV in class? I made jokes. Lots of them. Am I the same person as I was back then? Absolutely not, but if someone recorded me on that day, and posted just a clip on youtube, I'd look like an idiot too.

I consider myself a realist. It's a REALITY that America is ruled by rich Whites. It's a REALITY that what children see in the media, affects how they'll turn out as adults. If you only tell a child he can be a rapper, that's what he's going to believe. Are Whites the only source of problems for minorities in America? Absolutely not. In fact, several of the Pastor's comments were directed specifically at Black people! Somehow, I think a lot of people missed that segment...

I still don't see it. No one has provided me with any proof that what the pastor said racist, inflammatory, untruthful, or even unbiblical.

Because he found God? Why? What questions? Maybe because the church had 8,000 members? I don't get it.

I LOVE when this quote is taken out of context and used in a "Black issues" thread. You can almost guarantee it'll be posted. not unlike Godwin's law!

The quote was in reference to slavery and reparations and how some Blacks use the past as a means to gain something in the present. An entirely different topic altogether.

Where did the Pastor mention anything about getting something from Whites? Unlike the call for reparations, the Pastor mentions a variety of topics that are still going and still exist TODAY. This isn't something that happened 300 years ago. This is something that happened when many Blacks were just few years younger.

I'm not Jewish, so how dare I try and comment on how they should deal with the Holocaust. I'm not Japanese, so how dare I try and comment on how they should deal with the WWII, Concentration Camps, and the Hiroshima bombings.

What I have is something called empathy. Until we as a nation get more of it, these issues will never go away. I respect everything that each race has gone through in an effort to make America what it is, even if it isn't anywhere near the "happy place" some try to make it seem to be. When we start playing the "who has it worse" game, we lose. The Pastor only named things that are ACTUALLY HAPPENING. He never discredited what other races had gone through, so to compare that angle is moot at best.

 

And FYI, the rhetoric of using someone of the same race's quote as a means to give your point an extra push is not as effective as you think.

I never got a chance to vote on who my Black leaders are. As a result, I don't hold any of them in high regard simply because history tells me I should. History also told me that Christopher Columbus discovered America, despite the fact that millions were already living here, he was aiming for India, and the vikings landed there 500 years earlier.

History also told me that Lincoln was the great emancipator, even though he was quoted saying if he could have won the war without freeing the slaves, he would have.

 

I don't want to say the word. Since I have another quote from you I will use it here.
Re-read that quote and replace rapper with the N-word. I am a very firm believer in what Chris Rock said. There's a difference between black people and N-words, but I also believe that anyone on the face of this planet can be a N-word. It's not just black people.

Just to let everyone know I am a Apple/Kraut/Mick/Cracker. I sound tasty!

 

That's absolute BS. I don't think just any person from any race can be called a dune coon. I don't think just any person from any race can be called a wetback.

It's absolutely ridiculous to use that as a basis for justification of using a racial slur. Chris Rock is suddenly the decision maker on what N word means? Why use it at all? Why do people just HAVE to use such offensive and vulgar terms at all?

Makes NO sense.

Do people say Cracker any more? I've never once in my life heard a White person be called a cracker. That's some 70's crap right there...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwoISk4oKBI

 

This is entertaining. But in the end, it's just a word and the only meaning that word has, is what 'you' think it means. Take a look at the word F*ck. For older generations, the word is incredibly offensive. For my generation, it's the most versatile word in the world. I don't think of the word f*ck as a 'swear' or 'curse word', it's just an adjective, verb, noun, etc. So what if Obama's pastor is a racist? Everyone on this planet is racist. Whether you like it or not, it's true. Is Obama's pastor running for president? No. How about we take a look at McCain for a second? He still refers to Koreans as "____s". He claims that he only has hatred towards the ones who imprisoned him, but that's total BS. Anyone who has a grandfather who is a Vet, still hates all Japanese with the exception of some. Now get back to arguing about a word that has lost it's meaning.

 

Everyone is not a racist. I've taken many psych classes, and in one of them, we did learn that we as human beings stereotype often though. Media, upbringing, past events... all those things shape what your instincts make you do. The human brain s constantly processing information. When you walk into a bad area, and your senses become a little more accute, that's your brain categorizing the area based on what you've seen, heard, or been through in the past. It's proof that our media structure has an undeniable effect on the lives of people, whether it be what they aspire to be in the future, or what they think of others. Does that make you racist? No. The definition of racist is this:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Prejudice would be a better word to describe what we go through. Prejudice = Pre - Judge:

1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

It all fits.

Who are you to say what a word means or not? Because a lot of people use it regularly? Because it's in a lot of crappy music that plays on the radio? It's arrogant for someone who doesn't understand or experience something to quickly slap a label on it and be done. Straight people have been using the word F****t for years. Lots of ___ men are still VERY offended by that. Heck, Gays are upset when you use the word ___ to describe something that you don't like! Now just because I grew up saying ___ on a daily basis, does that make me the authority on whether or not the word has lost its meaning?

I still think the F word is offensive. I use it with my friends, but I don't use it in front of kids, the elderly, or in any situation that demands for me to be respectful. Bad analogy.

Like I said before, a cop pointed a gun to my head and called me the N word while I was trying to find a parking space for church. That day changed my ENTIRE outlook on race relations. All of a sudden, everything that I had heard about made sense. All the stories of racial profiling, corrupt cops, and shock of the N word were a reality to me.

Do I expect someone who's never experienced that to relate? Absolutely not, and that's why we'll never really get along.

 

I stand corrected on the racist/prejudice topic.

As for the "we'll never really get along" part, the only way everyone in the world could get along (to an extent) is if we stopped teaching history completely. Think about it for a second. I can't word it together right, but if we didn't know about slavery, the holocaust, 9/11, what reason would we have to feel hatred towards a select group. It's an impossible feat, simply because of word of mouth. Plus it doesn't help much that they don't teach the truth about history in school. I'm not going to go off-topic with this, but I easily can.

Also, I understand, but at the same time I don't about how you feel about that cop. I know your reasons, but I don't know what it's truly like being a part of a race that was once seen as slave with no rights (assuming your family was).

And I'm ready to get _____ed at for this. People hate hearing this stuff.

 

My family came over as indentured servants...so what! I don't allow the past to predicate my future. Some black people think things are owed to them because their ancestors were treated badly. My family was too. I don't let it keep me down. I overcome. I will never know what it's like to be black, but I do know what it is like to have some black people's oppression oppress me. I have to walk on eggshells around some black people because they will twist the crap out of a word like "you" or "them". Quite frankly I am tired of it. I am tired of having some black people waiting to pounce on me for the smallest thing so they can label me a racist.

 

Oh! By the way, I have been called cracker on more than one occasion by black people. I don't let it bother me. You wouldn't understand being from California, but Louisiana has it racial problems. What everyone fails to see is that it is a two way street.

 

Honestly, I think it might be the opposite. If we were actually taught the TRUTH about history, people wouldn't be upset. What do Black people always ask for? Recognition that racism exists and that it needs to stop. What do many White people seem to do? Ignore it. In all honesty, I can't blame White people for feeling that way. Supposed "Black Leaders" like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson cry wolf on absolutely petty issues. As a result, whenever Whites hear a Black person claim racism, they automatically assume it's just another Black playing the race card. So I can understand that quite well. I felt like that until stuff starting happening to me personally.

Black history in public education is a joke. You learn about Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks, make a stove top hat out of construction paper and a beard of cotton ***** to learn about the great Abraham Lincoln, and basically call it a day. I was seriously ____ed off when I read the Lincoln didn't care about, or even want to free the slaves, but knew that he needed them to win the war. I was pretty upset when I learned that RIGHT AFTER the slaves were freed, the US Government inacted the Black Codes, which was basically a legal form of slavery. I was pretty shocked when I learned that Christopher Columbus started the Pan Atlantic slave trade, and performed genocide on millions of Native Americans to take their gold.

No one taught us any of that stuff, and that's why people get ____ed. I don't know diddly about Latino-American culture. It was never taught either. By knowing the truth, we can move forward. If there was more truthful information out there, we'd have a paradigm shift in our society.

This is actually the type of dialogue our country needs to, and should have been having. We all like to play the victim. Whites feel like minorities get a free ride and take away from the hard working majority. Blacks feel like Whites are trying to keep them down and that Latinos get a free ride and are taking away from them. Latinos want to come in illegally and use sympathy and overwhelming numbers to bypass the judicial system. Asians think all the other minorities are lazy and complain since they don't even have the luxury of having their languages mainstreamed. All of the concerns are valid, but until we all sit down, and express those concerns, and show empathy for the other man, we're just going to run in circles.

I have to say, I feel a little better seeing understanding happen in this thread. Gives me hope lol.

 

What ancestors? You're missing the point entirely. It's not the ancestors that make Blacks mad. They've gone through these things personally. Did you miss all of my previous posts? My dad won't even go back to Louisiana because his uncle was killed by the police and hung in the streets. Some people don't seem to realize that we're not talking about ancient history, but within many people's lifetimes

I don't think anyone said it wasn't a two way street. I can get past racial slurs. It just shows how stupid the other person is. But when your racial prejudice manifests itself as a glass ceiling, or prevents me from getting a better education, or impacts my life, I have a problem. Somehow, I don't think Blacks have that much control. We simply don't have that many decision makers in power play positions...

 

Think about a totally new community. Where we take 1 German, 1 French, 1 English, 1 American Indian, 1 Iraqi, 1 Isreali, 1 Indian, 1 Japanese, 1 African, 1 Jamacian, 1 Mexican, 1 Brazilian, 1 Eskimo, 1 Russian, 1 North Korean, 1 South Korean, 1 Austrailian...you get the point. Take 20 males and 20 females from different races, all 7 years old (they wouldn't have learned about racism or have any influence on why they could potentially hate a race), place them on the moon to re-start civilization with no religion, no history, nothing but a scientific explanation about how they came to be (IE, tell them that they're decendants of a distant, dieing race blah blah). They'll all grow up together and have no reason to hate each other, aside from things they do to each other...steal, etc. That's my concept behind not teaching history anymore. I understand the moral's behind learning about history, but in the end, it just creates a reason to hate.

 

It's just our nature to be hateful and angry. Someone steals your parking space at work? You get ____ed. Someone cuts you off on the freeway? You yell and get mad. Someone says the wrong thing to you? You want to fight.

We're very animalistic creatures with very primitive emotional responses. How else do you explain girls dating guys who they KNOW are going to treat them like absolute dirt :p What seperates us from animals is that we have the ability to think, choose right and wrong, and be rational. However, it's impossible to think that everyone will behave in such a manner.

 

I went to a high school that was almost even on black to white ratio with other ethnicities filling in the rest of the 100%. I couldn't tell you an exact percentage of each. I can tell you that there were slackers who were white, black, and every color in between. I think education is not about color, but more about wanting to participate. If you don't care then go home. Don't disrupt the class to try to be cool or hard. The problem isn't a racial one when it comes to education it is a government issue. The government wants to make people dumber and dumber generation by generation. It's all a control. Racism is part of that control as well. As long as they can divide us all then they can conquer us. I am glad that we've had this debate thus far. It's refreshing to hear what you've gone through and know that you aren't trying to blame, but instead uplift yourself. I really think another big problem is there aren't many good role models in any culture these days.