Obviously you do. You're willing to let research go completely undone which could possibly save millions, and allow millions others to live productive, normal lives, because you don't want destroy what you believe to be a life in a fertilized egg.

 

Matt, no offense but you don't seriously think anybody here believes that your view is not based on your religion right? I would imagine that you use or have used contraceptives... Come on... Nobody is buying it.

 

There was a time where a majority of people shared matt's view. I think we now refer to it as the "dark ages".

 

So do you honestly belive that they will only destroy one embryo? If the research is approved, they will destroy thousands. And with no real promise that anything useful will happen. And even if it does, how is the person who was helped any more important than the one destroyed?

 

Dude, you need to take a step back and think about what you're saying. Do you honestly think that there are no athiests who are aginst stem cell research? Since when are Christians the only ones who value human life? I didn't become a Christian untill I was 21 years old. Prior to that I didn't really care what God said about anything. But guess what? I still had a sense of morality. I still felt certain things were right or wrong. People make those decisions every day without religious reasons. For some reason, you (and a few others) seem to think that if a person is a Christian, than every decision they make or how they feel about anything is based on that and that alone.

 

Thousands vs Millions. The equation is simple. Especially considering that the thousands will be stored for a finite time until they are destroyed. They are not going to be kept forever...unless you'd like to foot the bill for the electricity needed to keep them frozen. Or maybe you'd like to commit to adopting them all? It's obviously not going to happen, so something oviously has to be done with them, because they are all not going to be turned into human beings.

Once again, it's a question of trying or simply throwing them away at some point in the future. At that point, there is a 100% chance that nothing usefull will be gained.
If a biotec firm is spending tens of millions on the research, I promise you, they aren't trying to save one life. They are hoping that they can profit from saving millions.

 

this is why i said "Smart people know, stem cell research does not mean using aborted fetuses" the 400,000 stem cells we have in storage right now, are from harvested eggs that were never going to be a life.

and stem cells gathered from umbilical cords and even baby teeth, are so much more expensive and hard to get stem cells from, it's almost not worth it.

"During our last election", most people supported the war in iraq, what do you think about now? in just the last couple years, the publics views about ___ unions and stem cells have changed. Conservative evangelicals are what won the last election, but they're not the majority of americans.

You know when yo usay media is liberal, i just don't see it. Most TV news is conservative, abc, fox, cnn. 90% of radio listeners are tuning into conservative news. it's only newspapers that are liberal.

 

mmm no...It was 2004.
Bush = 62,028,285 Kerry = 59,028,109.
My math is a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure that's a majority.

 

CNN...consrvative?!!

 

I have to say this dave, from seeing what you have written these past couple weeks, I realize I have a lot more studying/learning to do. So I appreciate these conversations, the more I write here, the more I study, the more I learn. Its win-win the way I see it.

 

Touche matt. See what happens when you argue with FACTS. You win everytime. Let me rephrase, the "vast majority".

You never answered my question about contraceptives... How can you say that once it hits the egg it is life but when they are separated it's not? That makes no sense.

 

The old argument about life beginning at conception is moot. Life existed before that. Life doesn't "start." Conception is merely a continuation of life. The melding of two cells, nothing more. If you want to use the old "well they have the capacity to form into a fully grown human," argument I can answer thusly. Nearly all cells have the potential to grow into a full human. Take a cell, any cell (with the exception of erythrocytes) and extract the DNA. Inject it into an egg. Voila. Potential to grow into a human. (This is a simplified version of course, since there is more to it in humans than in sheep and such but the idea is still valid.) Cells are just cells. Until that puppy starts thinking it's just a bundle of cells. Even then, until the umbilical cord is cut, the fetus is a parasite by all definitions.

And like other people have stated already, the embryos are already there and fertilized. They either get used for research or they are wasted. Either way, they're already dead. So what's it gonna be? A worthless waste of life? Or research that can possibly save millions of people? To me there is no option.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. Sperm by it's self is not a human. An egg by it's self isn't either. But unite the two and BLAM!!!!

 

LOL... I'm all for "BLAM", but it is not life. Granted it is the potential to become life but so is the individual sperm/egg so the argument is void.

 

And why is that? Cell fusion (heterokaryons) doesn't necessarily make life. Examples: Hunter syndrome and Hurler syndrome. By your logic people with these syndromes have little humans floating around in their bodies. Not to mention phagocytosis (white blood cells "eating" foreign cells). The phagocytes ingest the invading cells and for all intents and purposes are fused with them. Are these some crazy human-animal hybrid creature? Of course not.

 

I back him up by saying you are out looking for intelligent people to have intelligent conversations. Yet somehow you forget at times that smart people go out and choose people in the government that share their views and beliefs and will take them to the world to help back up their beliefs. If all the atheist in the America formed their own political party and choose a front runner to stand up for them you might actually get an atheist in the white house. History has proved that a small group of people can make huge changes in the way this world will go. So if I am dumb or not as smart as some of the so called intelligent people in this thread but I have a person standing up for me and the things I believe in what does that say about you!

I am all for debate but when you go out and belittle the other side, you do nothing but make your self you like a pompous arrogant smart _ _ _.

Say what you want to say and feel how you want to feel but I would never go out and say you are stupid, or not as smart as I am because you don’t think like I do.


I am with Matt almost all the way on this and like everone else I didnt post before because of the speed at which it may have ended up here

 

Um, it doesn't say anything about the intelligent people. It merely says someone in power believes the same as you. Flawed logic again. Just because someone in office stands up for you doesn't mean that everyone that doesn't have a representative in office is stupid or wrong...

 

Smart people don't choose the president, the majority do, and in cases like G.W.Bush it seems as though dumb christians do. Ok, if you or anyone think you're smart, tell me you think Bush is smart, and you would want him incharge of the decisions of your country. Trying to tell me smart people chose Bush is asinine. Christians chose Bush, and they will continue to do so, until our country frees itself from being brainwashed with religion.

atheist's are less than 5% of the population, really <2% if you take out the agnostics. Get every one of those to vote and you'll get less votes than even Nader does. Dumb people, and there are alot, equate atheism with communism or socialism automatically, and i wouldn't want that, and no one would either.

it means, i'm not part of the ignorant set that got Bush elected. Hey, good job btw!

this must be the first thread you've seen me in.

didn't you just post "...what does that say about you!"

 

LOL... Yeah, what are you new or something?

 

Go back and check your other threads and you will see the questions have been asked over and over and yet no other response but the ones I just got again. No I’m not new I have been here for a bit. Enough to see that you only back up Dave and have no real thoughts of your own. So go ahead and tell me what you have told me before that I don’t know what I believe and that i was an idiot for voting in an election and for believing in something greater then constant questions that are followed up by more questions.

On the other note stem cell from umbilical cords are what pay my salary out here. I ship about five a day to a storage house in Cincinnati that holds them until the can be used to benefit the child.

On the Bush thing I have said it once and I will say it again if I could go back and vote again after seeing what i have seen I would still have voted for Bush and not because he is a Christian but because John Kerry was a idiot who couldn’t even get out of his own way.

I have never said you are stupid or not as smart as I am because of what you believe this is a debat I am supposed to learn something from it and I can't very well learn if I think you are Stupid