Under 21 with a handgun!? *update on pg3*
08-03-2008, 01:31 AM
#45
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OKAY sorry, havnt been able to get to computer, and its going to sound lame and i know a bunch of you are going to go "pshhh" but the part of town im moving to is renton. and i dont feel the need to carry a gun, i would just feel better to have a gun.. just in case. I would also like to get my concealed permit and this way ill have shot a bunch and feel more confident in myself if the time for me to use my firearm comes.
**update**
I went to a nice gun shop in Issaquah called "west coast armory" I talked to a salesman named Steve. He was a very nice guy and remembered the exact shotgun he sold my brother about 8 months ago. Anyways, I told him about what i had read on the NRA website about being 21 to purchase a handgun. He agreed and was familiar with the rules. I then said "so, i know i have to be 21 to purchase a handgun as well as getting my concealed weapon permit, but would it be legal if someone 21 or older purchased a hand gun and left it in my possession" he responded with "yes, that would be legal as long as you're not using it in the wrong way" i then said "so if my dad purchases a handgun and leaves it with me at my house for self defense/protection would that be breaking any laws?" and he said "no that would be perfectly legal"
**update**
I went to a nice gun shop in Issaquah called "west coast armory" I talked to a salesman named Steve. He was a very nice guy and remembered the exact shotgun he sold my brother about 8 months ago. Anyways, I told him about what i had read on the NRA website about being 21 to purchase a handgun. He agreed and was familiar with the rules. I then said "so, i know i have to be 21 to purchase a handgun as well as getting my concealed weapon permit, but would it be legal if someone 21 or older purchased a hand gun and left it in my possession" he responded with "yes, that would be legal as long as you're not using it in the wrong way" i then said "so if my dad purchases a handgun and leaves it with me at my house for self defense/protection would that be breaking any laws?" and he said "no that would be perfectly legal"
08-03-2008, 01:51 AM
#46
sorry but...as a "european" guy i must say this... this is the problem with you americans....... i know not everyone is an idiot maniac shooting around but... in europe there is not much ppl walking around with loaded guns..
america:
you get a gun easily so u might be able to defense yourself, unless they shoot you first or you have no chance to move because they pointing a gun at your head.. of course your enemies can get a gun easily..
europe:
you cant get a gun that easy.. most probably they will just force you to do something.. max they punch you, then eventually you WILL do what they want, maybe stab you:D still better than a bullet in the head.
PLUS i never heard about stabbing somebody by mistake.. but i heard stories about shooting someone down because they thought that the guy is just about to pull hes gun out of his pants. etc etc etc.
it is harder to punch, stab someone than just pull the triger.
and you will feel much BIGGER if you have a gun instead of your fist/knife
im not trying to be an _______ here. well.. this wont change nothing. you guys thinking like this, europens and others thinking like that.
btw im delivery guy (part job) and there is a ghetto place where they not use to deliver but now they are.. everytime i go there i roll up the windows but every guy is watching me at every corner.. its unbelievable .. there is 20 ppl on every corner, and everyone looks like they want to eat my alive :D:D
oh and they always yell at me like : Heay! Eigh! there was a guy said to me: what up white boy.....
america:
you get a gun easily so u might be able to defense yourself, unless they shoot you first or you have no chance to move because they pointing a gun at your head.. of course your enemies can get a gun easily..
europe:
you cant get a gun that easy.. most probably they will just force you to do something.. max they punch you, then eventually you WILL do what they want, maybe stab you:D still better than a bullet in the head.
PLUS i never heard about stabbing somebody by mistake.. but i heard stories about shooting someone down because they thought that the guy is just about to pull hes gun out of his pants. etc etc etc.
it is harder to punch, stab someone than just pull the triger.
and you will feel much BIGGER if you have a gun instead of your fist/knife
im not trying to be an _______ here. well.. this wont change nothing. you guys thinking like this, europens and others thinking like that.
btw im delivery guy (part job) and there is a ghetto place where they not use to deliver but now they are.. everytime i go there i roll up the windows but every guy is watching me at every corner.. its unbelievable .. there is 20 ppl on every corner, and everyone looks like they want to eat my alive :D:D
oh and they always yell at me like : Heay! Eigh! there was a guy said to me: what up white boy.....
08-03-2008, 03:14 AM
#49
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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k.... voicing in here.
Shotgun is by far a better choice for home defense over a handgun. Plus there is the unmistakable sound of a pump shot gun racking a round into the chamber. If that doesn't make somebodies ___ pucker and second guess their current decision to break into your house/apartment, then "meet triple ought".
.45, .9, are both fine for personal defense. IT IS all about bullet choice. If you buy a genero el'cheapo .9mm round, you get what you buy. A bullet that does not expand on impact, travels through, does very little kinetic energy damage while passing through the subject and will indeed go through the wall and kill the neighbor. They make some very fine home/personal defense rounds for just about all "personal defense calibers". Do your shopping and test fire them before calling them the bullet of choice. The personal defense bullets ARE NOT cheap, but they have a specific purpose and will do a fine job not exiting your intended target.
The idea that bigger is better is not even close to true. It's what you are comfortable shooting. If a person is recoil shy, they will not shoot a .45 very well, nor will they shoot a .38 snub nose with a tiny little hand-grip.
Glocks are great guns. They will cycle just about anything that will fit down the pipe. They DO NOT have a true safety which is something I consider a downfall to the weapon. But overall, they are great weapons.
Shot placement, like Tu said is what is important. It is a well documented fact that .22 calibers account for more fatalities than any other caliber (mainly because it bounces around inside the body after impact).
If Washingtons CHL class is anything like Oregons class, it will not teach you anything about tactical handgun control. You will need to look into a tactical class for a true "hands on" shooting course. I've taken several and have not one regret taking any of them. I highly suggest taking multiple classes and shooting your weapon often. Don't learn to shoot it and stick in your fanny-pack or side holster and never shoot it again.
Tu had some great advice with trying different guns. I tried countless guns, different hand grips on several models until I found one that naturally came up with my sights aligned. It was one less thing I had to train myself with (hand to eye alignment). It's something that is taught in tactical I class and is of upmost importance in sight/target acquisition. It's the reason most cops miss their targets in a panic situation. They do not have a gun that has a natural hand/eye alignment.
Oh and CSOCS.. welcome to America, the land of Constitutional Rights and the NRA.
Heck even Washington DC has seen the benefit (after 30 or so years of wrongfulness) of the need of the people to be able to defend themselves. Heck you're even in Florida right? They have what is called the "castle law". It's something that is a model for more states than less when it come to self defense. Basically it states "your body is your castle". So where ever you are, you have the right to defend your castle, be it at your house or at the grocery store. One of the more stanch personal defense states truth be known....
Singleshot
Shotgun is by far a better choice for home defense over a handgun. Plus there is the unmistakable sound of a pump shot gun racking a round into the chamber. If that doesn't make somebodies ___ pucker and second guess their current decision to break into your house/apartment, then "meet triple ought".
.45, .9, are both fine for personal defense. IT IS all about bullet choice. If you buy a genero el'cheapo .9mm round, you get what you buy. A bullet that does not expand on impact, travels through, does very little kinetic energy damage while passing through the subject and will indeed go through the wall and kill the neighbor. They make some very fine home/personal defense rounds for just about all "personal defense calibers". Do your shopping and test fire them before calling them the bullet of choice. The personal defense bullets ARE NOT cheap, but they have a specific purpose and will do a fine job not exiting your intended target.
The idea that bigger is better is not even close to true. It's what you are comfortable shooting. If a person is recoil shy, they will not shoot a .45 very well, nor will they shoot a .38 snub nose with a tiny little hand-grip.
Glocks are great guns. They will cycle just about anything that will fit down the pipe. They DO NOT have a true safety which is something I consider a downfall to the weapon. But overall, they are great weapons.
Shot placement, like Tu said is what is important. It is a well documented fact that .22 calibers account for more fatalities than any other caliber (mainly because it bounces around inside the body after impact).
If Washingtons CHL class is anything like Oregons class, it will not teach you anything about tactical handgun control. You will need to look into a tactical class for a true "hands on" shooting course. I've taken several and have not one regret taking any of them. I highly suggest taking multiple classes and shooting your weapon often. Don't learn to shoot it and stick in your fanny-pack or side holster and never shoot it again.
Tu had some great advice with trying different guns. I tried countless guns, different hand grips on several models until I found one that naturally came up with my sights aligned. It was one less thing I had to train myself with (hand to eye alignment). It's something that is taught in tactical I class and is of upmost importance in sight/target acquisition. It's the reason most cops miss their targets in a panic situation. They do not have a gun that has a natural hand/eye alignment.
Oh and CSOCS.. welcome to America, the land of Constitutional Rights and the NRA.
Heck even Washington DC has seen the benefit (after 30 or so years of wrongfulness) of the need of the people to be able to defend themselves. Heck you're even in Florida right? They have what is called the "castle law". It's something that is a model for more states than less when it come to self defense. Basically it states "your body is your castle". So where ever you are, you have the right to defend your castle, be it at your house or at the grocery store. One of the more stanch personal defense states truth be known....
Singleshot
08-03-2008, 03:38 AM
#50
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Singleshot, thank you. for all of it. thanks. great advice and i will take it into account. a few co workers of mine and i are going to the range tomorrow to compare the springfield 9 and 45. from the ONE 9 and the ONE 40 ive shot, i felt much more comfortable with the 9 and shot better with the 9. ive held glocks and springfields, S&W, CZ. out of all of these the springfield felt the best in my hands. but i did also enjoy my friends remington 870 tac.
08-03-2008, 04:59 AM
#51
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One last suggestion?
If you are choosing a weapon that will eventually become your carry weapon, consider the weight of the gun (loaded) when you do your purchase. I personally know several people who have two pistols because of this mistake. They bought what fit them and felt good, but weighed a ton. After having their "hogleg" strapped to them all afternoon, they hated that gun and ended up purchasing something in the polymer line.
I'm not saying polymer is the way to go, it's just an option when it comes to weight.
If you are choosing a weapon that will eventually become your carry weapon, consider the weight of the gun (loaded) when you do your purchase. I personally know several people who have two pistols because of this mistake. They bought what fit them and felt good, but weighed a ton. After having their "hogleg" strapped to them all afternoon, they hated that gun and ended up purchasing something in the polymer line.
I'm not saying polymer is the way to go, it's just an option when it comes to weight.
08-03-2008, 05:49 AM
#52
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ahh, good point with the weight, yes i do plan it to be my CCW and hadnt really put thought into the weight (i guess i still have 1.5 years to get use to it) but i think that one site i read about the SA only the barrel, the trigger/guard, magazine, and sights/rails are metal, the rest are a polymer. Single what do you shoot?
08-03-2008, 06:01 AM
#53
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This is just my opinion, but the last thing I would want to do is come on a open forum and tell people what type of firearms I own or shoot, especially if I lived in states that have bans on certain firearms. Instead of flaming me I would like your opinions.John
08-03-2008, 06:57 PM
#55
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My personal opinion on telling people what I own?
Not much different than all of us listing out the mods we've done to our cars on our profile and then stating what town/state/county we live it. We are all assuming that the thieves aren't lurking around looking for a parts car to procure. I've always laughed at myself for listing the stuff I've done, when in the back of my mind I keep thinking... "I'm just asking for someone to come break into my car and steal something".
On the other side of that coin. I don't drive around with my guns in the trunk of my car. Stealing my car would be easy (the fuel light is on, so plan on getting fuel before you get to the freeway). In order to steal my guns, you'd need a few tool, remove a wall and then hope that the safe neatly slides off the roof into an awaiting moving truck. If she hits the ground, it would be easier to head over to China to start digging it out (it weights a dang ton).
I personally don't make it a habit listing out what I own, but then again, I have a flicker page and a myspace with all my hunting photo's (neatly displaying a rifle or bow). So in essence, I am telling people what I own. Just without an easy to read itemized list.
As far as the "banned" weapons stuff, That really has nothing to do with this thread, so I'll leave it at that.
Back on topic;
Polymer in general: barrel and slide are all metal, various internal parts will be metal and the polymer frame has metal molded into to it for strength. Clip will also be metal covered polymer.
here is a weight comparison:
H & K UPS compact .45 cal. weight empty: 25.6 oz. (polymer)
S & W compact .45 cal. Weight Empty: 28 oz (all steel)
Doesn't look like much, but it adds up.
Not much different than all of us listing out the mods we've done to our cars on our profile and then stating what town/state/county we live it. We are all assuming that the thieves aren't lurking around looking for a parts car to procure. I've always laughed at myself for listing the stuff I've done, when in the back of my mind I keep thinking... "I'm just asking for someone to come break into my car and steal something".
On the other side of that coin. I don't drive around with my guns in the trunk of my car. Stealing my car would be easy (the fuel light is on, so plan on getting fuel before you get to the freeway). In order to steal my guns, you'd need a few tool, remove a wall and then hope that the safe neatly slides off the roof into an awaiting moving truck. If she hits the ground, it would be easier to head over to China to start digging it out (it weights a dang ton).
I personally don't make it a habit listing out what I own, but then again, I have a flicker page and a myspace with all my hunting photo's (neatly displaying a rifle or bow). So in essence, I am telling people what I own. Just without an easy to read itemized list.
As far as the "banned" weapons stuff, That really has nothing to do with this thread, so I'll leave it at that.
Back on topic;
Polymer in general: barrel and slide are all metal, various internal parts will be metal and the polymer frame has metal molded into to it for strength. Clip will also be metal covered polymer.
here is a weight comparison:
H & K UPS compact .45 cal. weight empty: 25.6 oz. (polymer)
S & W compact .45 cal. Weight Empty: 28 oz (all steel)
Doesn't look like much, but it adds up.
08-04-2008, 12:23 AM
#56
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yah the composite vs the steel is very similar but after carrying it around all day im sure it would feel alot heavier than it really is. im going to shoot the 45, and 9mm on tuesday.
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