BMW isn't the most efficient when it comes to production. Maybe that's what gives them the "performance" they want, however they sacrifice big time in overall efficiency which eventually trickles down to all facets including overall reliability.
From what I gather, they have different trannys, motors, suspensions, etc... for almost every "package". One package from one model will NOT be swappable with another of the same model with a different package (i.e. 325 with and without a sport package).
I'm no production expert, however if anyone logically thinks about it, this type of process translates to longer time & "specialized" manufacturing, higher production costs, and a higher probability of issues & defects (just because they have so many more variables to maintain per model and its designated package).
I agree somewhat with BMWs ideals that certain parts that need to be specialized for optimal performance, however at the price of defects, errors, and issues? No Way!
(IMO) Euros are a step ahead and a step behind what you'd expect, while Toyota is a step back from what you'd expect - in terms of performance. I said "a step ahead and a step behind" regarding Euromobiles because I believe they go too far trying to create this model/package "uniqueness" which is entirely unnecessary and even damaging to its reliability, at the same time they're a step ahead in performance.
In BMWs case, if they made the options standard and perhaps charged a tad more for the base model while making the package upgrades only at the bolt-on level (so it can be done at the dealer), they'd in essence be Toyota (minus the performance aspect).
In Toyotas case, once they discover several SOLID Performance Platforms and start producing it straight off the line while maintaining their well known efficiency & productivity they have nothing to worry about.

 

What?

 

Basically, BMW has such a wide variety of models and packages with so many different parts its almost understandable why their cars don't last. If a company can't get 1 thing right, how do you expect them to get 10???
What i'm saying is (for example) if a company makes an ______ (insert part here) for one model, but needs an entirely different part for an upgraded sports package (on the exact same model) doesn't that process leave more potential for error? (and when I say "part" i don't mean something like an ashtray, I mean something that would alter the production line in a dramatic way)
From the corporate standpoint, it just doesn't make sense why they'd go to such lengths to catagorize their brands & upgrades to the point where aspects of the basic platform need to be altered.
I think if one should market a product that can be enhanced (via package upgrades and what not), make it as trouble free as possible while maintaining as much value (in regards to performance, luxury, etc...) as possible in stock form.

 

^^To have a wider customer base, and the sport package is about as altering to the production line as the spec package is to Scion...From what I understand all they really do is change the wheels, change the suspension, and put in a different pre-programmed chip to bump the speed limiter up to 150.

I don't hear much about the 3, 5, 6, Z, and X series cars having serious issues. It's just the 7. I get what your saying, but if they want leather, and the works, they can option up, or get a 5.

 

I've heard that parts from upgrade packages & different model versions are so specialized that either you buy that specific part for your model/upgrade or forget about it comepletely.
It's not simliar to the spec packaged tC because if i wanted to change parts like a short shifter or coilovers they'd still be universal. Now compared that to changing a simple short shifter throughout the BMW 325i - 330ci series - Now, you've got a problem. I've also heard various other parts including suspension mods that require different systems since they're not universal and depending on model they use different suspension mounts or brackets (or something of that sort). I'm not in any sense "claiming" to be a BMW tech, nor do I want to take on that task because it'll probably require full-time status.

Anyways, back onto the real topic ~ killing the m3. Close is not good enough, it must be ownage. =)
Just Do It.

 

lol, well ofcourse you can't. Those are 2 completely different engines. Thats why its called the 3 series. It's a series of different cars built basically on the same chassis. Like the Scion, the xA and xB....no, that wont work since they share the engine....well, like the Avensis and the tC, you woulnd't buy something made for the avensis to put on your tC because theyre based on the same chassis, would you?

Well, even though it goes against the point I'm trying to make, good luck to lexus for attempting to beat the M3, we all know you'll need it

 

^ I disagree with your avensis & tC comparison they're completely different and have entirely different skins (body types).
I think a better comparison would be the IS250 AWD, IS350, and if they had a wagon & hybrid it'd be included as well. However, Toyota obviously had the option to create many many "models" of the same type car but decided not to.
Wise decision Toyota!
However, you should've atleast offered 350 AWD stick (but maybe that was the whole idea ~ to test the market and see how well this platform would do in the market).
In any case, there must be plenty of reasons why BMW does things the way they do, and same goes for Toyota. Uniqueness is one thing, waste is another, that's all I'm saying.
What I'd like to see is Toyota efficiently maximizing performance as the standard rather than offer "upgrade" mods. My suggestion keep on doing what your doing for the standard model line, but for the future M3 killer, make it a complete sports car without any compromise/substitutions (3.5 or more, AWD, stickshift, 6 speed, etc... basically a Road Warrior 1st that can be daily driven 2nd).
Anyways, I've got faith in Toyota\Lexus\Scion. It'll happen one day if you choose to believe or not.

 

I think they will make it but we wont see the likes of it here in the u.s.

 

by the way. REAL sports cars are RWD

 

^

 

eh, I still don't feel that Lexus/Toyota can change direction that easily, its like making a u-turn on a one way street, you're going to crash...

but nevertheless, BMW has rhyme for their reason(keeping the whole sports enthusiast thing alive, one of the few manufacturers left that make cars that let you feel the road, stuff like that) and Toyota also(even if this is overdramatic and mid-life crisis like)

Hey lexus, how about an SMG type option? no?

 

Looks awesome!

 

Most people who truly CARE cant AFFORD beemers as entusiast cars anyway. Its the lawyers/doctors/other poseurs who need to have an 'image' is what keep the brand going. If BMW made a 4000lb FWD car with the 3 series skin and sold it at the dealerships instead of the real deal, I am willing to be that 85% of the customers will NOT notice. More power to them though, because I like how their cars drive and I admire their philosophy about performance. Sucks to be associated with the kind of ppl who own them though.

yeah lexus..are you listening? SMG/DSG style system ftw!!

 

for all those intrested......i was on my lexus forum, some guy in arizona took these pics of the "is500" which is what they are unoffically calling it. anyway i thought i would share.......
"Lexus IS 500
An M3 killer in the midst.

A 2-door Lexus IS, badly camouflaged as a 4-door, was spotted lapping the Nürburgring late last year. Upon closer examination, we also noticed a large rear spoiler and quad stainless-steel exhaust tips. When we asked the folks at Toyota about the car, the answer was, "No comment."

Since then, we've been able to deduce that this 2-door IS is being created to go straight up against the BMW M3. And because the M3 switches to V-8 power soon, it's only natural for the world's most profitable car company to also cram a V-8 into its machine. But we hear that Toyota intends to do more than just keep pace with the M3; according to our sources, the Nagoya-based company plans to equip the IS coupe with a 5.0-liter V-8, the one it's currently developing for the Supra. If that is the case, we can expect output somewhere near 400 bhp — detuned slightly from the Supra's version, but more than enough to put the M3 away in a straight line. Naturally, the name of the car would then become "IS 500."

The overall suspension would stay the same — double wishbones with high-mount upper arms up front, and a multilink setup at rear. Let's hope that Toyota has enough sense to equip the car with a manual transmission or "real" semi-automatic. The car's 0-60-mph times should be near 5.0 seconds.

The IS 500 could make an appearance as soon as late this year. If so, expect it to be priced between $50,000 and $60,000."
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=5

enjoy......notice the AZ plates.

also, IMO toyota is going to have to relase something with more then 300 Hp to stay in the game with the new g35, GTR and the new m3 comming out..........
people are demanding high end, high horsepower.

 

it better, for what the MSRP will be..........BTW, has anyone seen the new M3's? I dont care for them, but some people will..........

 

You'd be surprised. I know quite a few people who truly care that drive BMWs. Nobody ever said it had to be a new one, you can go into any BMW and find that same remarkable driving style. I can just jump into a 96 BMW 328iS, then write paragraphs on how it ate the twisties, how it accelerated like no other, etc. I can't jump into an SC300 and say the same, Lexus just started doing all of this stuff recently and on impulse, because they want younger buyers, BMW is still just like , yet still churning exciting cars

eh, I haven't seen it....and ofcourse you dont, I don't think anyone on here does...

 

That thing is the definition of aggessive. Hats off to Lexus.

 

Somehow you completely missed my point.

 

I dont see why people like to hate on other car brands, BMW is a great car, it has its problems, so do toyota, and lexus. I just had to take my lexus to the dealer becuase the right door lock acuator failed, they had to replace it and my car is only 4 weeks old........

I would love to own a current style M3, or the new lexus when it comes out, both cars are awesome.

 

If by "M3", you mean "330", then yes, it hits 60 in 5.8. If by M3, you actually mean M3, then it hits 60 in 4.8. Hell, the old M5 hit it in like 5.0 and that thing was a tank (~4000 lb, 394 hp). If the M3 couldn't do it faster (although it is a boat at 3400 lbs), that would be sad. The new generation hits 60 in like 4.5, but I'm not expecting that from the M3, since it's likely to weigh in over 3500 lbs. Here's to hoping they make a new M3 LTW/CSL and sell it in the US!