This all reminds me of when the 2008 xB debuted and many of the gen 1 xB owners flipped.

-THE DON

 

First off, the Gen coupe costs 22k base price and thats with their turbo 4-cyclinder that does 210. Really? Turbo? Only 210? I can turbo my tC that was 18k base and for 22k total, I can get well over 250hp. Also consider for 19k, you can get a civic si that has 197 hp also. For $500 more you put a few bolt ons to that and you'll get 210.

And that 3.8L V6 is under-horsed also @ 306hp. While I agree that a 94hp increase does warrant an increase in price (in this case 3k to 25k base), its still only 80HP/L. Where as the civic si @ 197 w/2.0L gets 98hp/L. And the Civic is lighter than the Gen Coupe to boot. Now their high end 4.6 V8 on the sedan version also only gets 84HP/L. Still not that great, but this now costs a whopping 33k! This is just a carry over of their abysmal engine design from the Tiburon where we saw a V6 engine with a measly little 173hp.

For 25k, I could buy a 265hp WRX that has 106HP/L and again weighs less (by 700lbs)...and has AWD. Both of which will overcome the 40hp difference.

Part of the reason the awards were given to the car is because this is the first car from HYUNDAI that is actually nearing the 'pretty good' stage. It's also the best car they've made to date. And it shows they're moving in the right direction. But when you compare it to other cars out there and compare metrics of the engine and other aspects, it still falls short of everything else.

So the "$20,000 crowd" has better options out there and they aren't the Gen Coupe.

But for the under 20k crowd, and between the Kia or the Hyundai (or the new tC), I'll still take the Kia. If I'm spending more than 20K, I'm buying a Subaru.

 

The housing bubble collapse was the first downturn in the american economy that was in July 2007. The stock market retreated when Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and Lehman Bros and AIG all collapsed under the weight of interest rates rising, causing variable rate mortages to skyrocket in the middle of this 'house-flipping' fad and thus people couldn't afford it. The banks also had created a new type of financial instrument based on these failing mortages and when no one could afford to buy them up, the banks lost money on both sides. In some cases, they imploded entirely because of the sub-prime lending they had done. Washington Mutual was a great example of this.

Things built to a head and really hit rock bottom in the latter half of 2008/first half of 2009.

Though, regarding the Honda Fit, I agree its a neat little car. Its also 5k less than the tC. Not to mention that people still consider scion as ''the boxy one" thinking that the only Scion is the xB1. Its an education issue that scion has a problem with. They haven't tried to dispel that image and let the public know that they've had vehicles that are good quality, economical and inexpensive. It also doesn't help that our cars only get mildly good gas mileage. I mean hell...even the Cobalt gets 37mpg and the civic gets 34mpg. Hopefully the better mileage with the tC2 and the iQ will bring some focus back to Scion.

 

I've been looking into a Gen Coupe myself. But after some research I'm not sold on it. If you look at the Gen Coupe forums you'll see that people are on their second and third trannies. Something's wrong with those manual trannies. So no go for me. And an automatic is a $1500 option. Personally I'd rather have the new V6 Mustang over a Gen coupe. 305hp, 31mpg, and it's already ran a 13.7 1/4 mile by MT editors, all for the same price.

Initially I wasn't thrilled that they used the Fuse back end. Wasn't a big fan. But after looking at it for awhile I can see some things I can do to this car to make it pretty sweet. If someone comes up with a bigger spoiler that wraps around the back end more it would look pretty BA. Only thing I really flat out hate is the front badge. Makes it impossible to get rid of it. I just hope that awesome steering wheel is telescopic, and they bring back the supercharger.

 

I started not to respond but it's quite obvious you learned about forced induction yesterday. Sure, you can boost a tC, with the motor that wasn't intended for boost, so surely you can say bye-bye to your warranty once you do so. You are also comparing a car that was built to be turbo charged to one that wasn't. The costs of maintenance on the tC, coupled with tuning, turbo system, clutch, etc. will long surpass that of the Gen Coupe. Not to mention once you change the restrictive exhaust on the Gen Coupe and update the flash you've just unleashed the hidden 75 whp.

The build quality of the Gen Coupe far surpasses that of the tC and ANY Civic. Not to mention lets say you get the Civic, do your supposed "$500 in bolt ons" now you have a slow Civic that sounds like the pits when the VTEC kicks in...good job.

To begin to mod the car ridiculously is compromising the integrity of the vehicle. I don't want to see a $35K tC, what's the point, get something worth $35K to begin with.

This comment shows how little you know about motors in general, I won't even begin to school you here.

700lbs less...where are you getting your incorrect facts? The curb weight of the 2009 WRX is 3229, 2.0T Genesis Coupe 3294 and 3.8 Genesis Coupe 3389. AWD is not the best option for every situation, so i'm not going to begin to debate with you on that because it's opinionated but I will say the WRX will loose much more power through the drive train than the Genesis.

You have to be kidding. Not only are they going in the right direction, they are leap frogging companies. Your statement is contradictory to what you previous said about Hyundai being garbage. Since you're allegedly rented every Hyundai. There is a lot more to a vehicle than hp and tq, a lot more than what it does from 0-60 and what's its time in the quarter. Hyundai has done what very few have been able to accomplish and that's completely handle both performance, interior styling and exterior styling. The first question that comes to car buyers minds isn't how much hp it has, you're driving at a max speed limit of 70mph on US roads anyway. Get over the crap that doesn't matter and for the company to warranty their vehicles for 10 years/ 100,000 miles factory turbocharged says a lot.

I think the $20,000 crowd would disagree with you. There are more than a few of them here that went with the Gen Coupe as their replacement to the tC. A few have gone with Subaru as well, so while you're making an attempt to discredit a company, it remains obvious that you are in the minority.

 

not impressed by the pics. i do like the front end but the rear just kills it for me. im sure i get to see it when it hits dealer showrooms. maybe ill get to do a pre delivery inspection on one at my job so i can get a real up close and personal look at the car.

 

Guys, let's keep the discussion of how awesome the Genesis Coupe is or isn't elsewhere. We've touched on it, that's enough. We don't need 15 pages of that kind of thing.

 

2011 Scion tC huh? looks like a design that can be pulled off in 2008. Like everyone said, it looks outdated compared to the other inferior car companies. Take for instance the 2011 Kia Sportage.

 

I seriously think I get dumber every time I try to read one of your posts... :?

 

Added FiveAxis live shots from Autoblog to first post!

 

i would say the fiveaxis is one of the sickest cars ever... thats looks nuts.. but for the stock one it does look like the doge avenger turd thing alot.

 

Imagine that fiveaxis kit with the 1gen tC lines I say it would look 'sicker'. Maybe a front end conversion Kouki?

 

OK. . . so cars should never be upgraded ever and keep the same price? Under that logic, we should have the same engines from the 1960's. . . The Corolla has continually had it's engine upgraded, from a 1.6L to 1.8L 1ZZ, the the newest one (ZR?) without much of a price change. It's expected that R&D is built into the price, and technology continually evolves. We're not talking about turbos or hybrid tech or a V8. . . we're talking about basic upgrades to stay competitive. Back in the day, a 3 speed automatic was common, then 4 speed, and now 5. Some manufacturer offer 8 speed autos, but it's understandable that they charge a great deal more. . . but it's not unrealistic for low end manufacturers to be expected to provide 5 speed autos (and many do).

The 2AZ is a dated engine and its production will eventually be phased out. In all reality, it probably saves them more money to select the newer engine from the existing parts bin (that has already had R&D sunk into it).

 

I'm really not sure what you're referring to.

My opinions on the scion/fit thing might be open to interpretation, so fine debate it.

I work for a financial trading company and all the traders have on is the news 24/7 so I am bludgeoned with current events all day long. The housing market started to weaken in 2007 coupled with loans made to individuals with weak credit by the biggest banks. They then created securities based on these alongside other similarly bad decisions (credit default swaps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap) (an even riskier venture which lots of people bought into) caused the failure of several large banks including Lehman and Bear Sterns who didn't properly hedge themselves against the failure of these investments with less risky ones.

With banks tied up in poor investments and home buyers now defaulting on the variable rate mortgage payments that skyrocketed as interest rates rose, there was no money for other businesses to borrow so they could expand or, in the case of weaker companies, maintain day to day operations as consumers tightened their wallets and quit spending.

Industries that typically relied on this constant flow of cash from banks, like the auto industry, suffered greatly. Which is why there was so much news coverage on the federal government bailing out GM and Chrysler.

When the economy finally bottomed out, weak or weakening brands, like Scion were overlooked by the consumer. Probably because they just weren't appealing to people for any number of reasons. Add in the bad press Toyota's gotten recently with the gas pedal recall issue and it just doesn't have give a good outlook for the company as a whole.

I was hoping that the new tC would be able to help overcome a lot of what has plagued the brand over the last couple years and has become even more evident during the recession.

Perhaps the iQ will appeal to a larger group of people and help, maybe the way the invention of the minivan helped keep Chrysler revive itself years back.

 

4 out of our 5 cars are Toyotas

5 years ago I would tell you you were crazy to check out kia. I am sad to say at this point I would choose kia over toyota....sigh

The fiveaxis kit on the TC makes it look really boy racerish

that huge grill on the bottom looks like something out of an early 90's civic

 

I used to work in loans when I was in the US, and can tell you that it was still easy to get stated income car loans all the way up to mid-year 2009, so long as you had ok credit. Worse case scenario, you could get a cosigner. BofA and Citi were both doing a lot of stated income loans and approving a ton of em. Credit rules (for autos) only began to get tight towards the end of last year.

Now housing loans have been VERY tough for some time now, but that's a different story.

 

I wasn't talking about car loans earlier in the post I was talking about banks got short changed when home owners defaulted on loans, and most everyone pointed the finger at variable rate loans as the culprit since most couldn't handle the ever-inflating payments.

Car loans are easier to get, of course. But with the new way they're rating credit scores (I have A grade credit according to my monthly credit report, but recently was downgraded to B grade after the recent changes (not referring to the changes in credit card laws either)), its harder to find 'qualified' buyers. But, yes as you stated, you can always get a cosigner.

And BoFA and Citi did better than other banks, IMO, in partly because they also did retail banking, not just investment banking or insurance.

I would account some of the lack of sales to difficulty getting car loans, but I'm not sure if I'd say its the only thing thats keeping Scion's sales depressed as they are.

Either way, I hope Scion figures out a way to lure back customers.

Another thought that occurred to me is that Scion could turn out to be another Saab-like situation. Saab is like a niche sort of market. Its got its loyalists and enthusiasts, but its not selling millions of cars a year here in the U.S. Maybe Scion is destined to become a similar niche type brand.

 

Guys, if you really want to continue this, take it to PM. We're kind of losing the focus of the thread here (whatever that may be).

 

its a love hate. it looks good but a little late. needs more power . interior sucks. engine bay is out dated. ill wait for a release series. something tells me this wont sell well.

 

I am trying to make my posts pertinent to at least Scion and how the tC is fighting an already increasingly uphill battle. But, I'll just stop posting. I'm sure some people will cheer that anyway.