your right the quality is getting better but i deff think will never be to toyotas standard!!!! plus the resell value on ALL kias and hyundais suck !!!!!!!!!!!

 

I surprised by all the people who think a RWD Scion is a possibility. Scion is about highly customizable inexpensive economy cars. As it is, the tC is a huge break from the Scion MO. A RWD sportscar is very infeasible. A car slotted above the tC is also pretty hard to believe. I still think a sporty small sedan or a xB based crossover is probably the most feasible. A convertible or roadster are possibilities as well but they'd probably be fwd and priced near the tC at best.

 

You are correct that the Mercedes Benz E class Bluetch is the only diesel vehicle currently being sold in the US. It is limited to 45 states, and prices start at 54k.

I remember seeing something somewhere that VW is going to be coming out with an 08 Jetta TDI Since the redesign they have not had a Diesel Jetta. The older Jetta TDI's were sellinig in the mid-high 20's .

Also there was something about the Mini coming out as a diesel next year, and by 2010 Honda is planning on having a diesel version of the Accord.

So I guess the question is where are the U.S. Diesel Toyotas? Toyota has been focusing on Hybrid technologies but I don’t think they have much in the way of E85 and I know they have some Diesel vehicles overseas, but how clean are they and do they conform to U.S safety and emissions standards? One important factors to me is fuel economy and it was a contributing factor to me purchasing an xB. It would be cool to get a Scion diesel that would be awesome and if it was priced in the high teens to low 20's that would work. Then we can be talking about how to do a bio-diesel mod.

 

Remember, too that Toyota has said they will not bring in a diesel until they can bring in a 50 state diesel, and currently there are states where they are flat-out banned. (Of course they could change their mind, but it isn't likely.)

Tom

 

toyota is in the works of doing a diesel tundra!!!! should be out in a year or 2

 

I didn't read all 5 pages, so someone may have said it already but xA, xB, tC, and xD.... Wouldn't a new model be the 5th??

 

kinda right but the xd is replacing the xa so ther is only 3 manufactured cars now.......

 

The resale value issue has to do with the fact that people still think of Kia/Hyundai as crappy cars and not reliable. As time goes on and people start to find that the cars are lasting longer with fewer problems the resale value should improve, but this will take 5, 10, possibly even 20 years. One issue I have with them is their warrantee of 100k miles is not transferable and is only valid for the original purchaser.

The main reason I was comfortable with purchasing a Scion is I know it was made by Toyota and it was being built in Japan. Toyota has a reputation for quality that in my opinion is unsurpassed.

 

As a former owner of a Hyundia Accent and was offered $1,500 for a 2 yr old car with 6K miles ... i can tell you that the resale is not there for this line of car. I can also tell you that the car itself is just a tin can on wheels. The metal is just as thin if not thinner then a Scion, and there is a minimal amount of sound deadening materials in a Hyundai. I dont ever see the day that Hyundai is on the same playing field as Toyota or Nissan.

 

tc = mushroom

they're every where..... I am going to change to another car like my old Supra 94.

 

I'm going to address this, even though it hurts my head.

The point of comparison was that Suzuki will (possibly) make an SX-4 in a regular model (current) and a WRC upgrade. My thinking was Toyota might go the same route. At no point was there a direct comparison. Though, for the record, for $17K you can get an SX-4 in AWD. It's quite fun to drive.

I'm going to quote here:

"Customers have been slow to accept a luxury Volkswagen, perhaps due to their historical perception of Volkswagen as being an "economy" marque. The British motoring journalist Jeremy Clarkson summed up the Phaeton's commercial failure by pondering "To what question is the answer a £68,000 Volkswagen?"."

I linked to that wikipedia article in my previous post.

Price is not an issue. Perception is. There's a certain price point where people stop looking at features and start looking at the name. No lay person is going to look at a Mercedes and say Toyota is in the same class. Not even Toyota, which is why Lexus is around.

I did.

As a dealer, you probably should know who your competition is. People looking at the xA/xB/xD/tC price point are going to have a couple Kias/Hyundais in there, including the Fit, Versa, etc. I never said anything about quality, I was referring to competition.

Actually, here's a homework lesson. Go to vehix.com and start shopping using only price as your guide. No used cars! Just new. Wasn't so hard, was it? I'm sure average joe consumer will likely do the same thing. In fact, that's how I ended up buying my first xB, through vehix (and my second xB to boot).

One, maybe two !'s are enough. But six?

 

That's OK, we currently have a bit of a surplus of "!" and "," in the servers and don't mind a few extras being used.

 

I think what they might benefit from is, as was probably mentioned already, a roadster type car. Something that can compete with the Miata, S2000, etc.

 

Those are the states that have adopted Cali's emission standards....the same standards that Toyota found out about when they were developing when the 100 mpg diesel prius. Which is why Toyota switched gears to the gas burner during development.

Tomas,
Are they actually banned, or is it just until the low sulfur diesel is rolled out?

 

They need a 2 seater convertible. WIth the Dodge Demon slated to come and sell for around what the tC sells for now, Scion would be missing the mark to not build a competitor.

 

I agree with you that “currently” the resale value is horrible, and it will always be horrible on the older models. My point is, Kia/Hyundai are really pushing to clean up their image and quality and in a few years people will start to recognize this and forget about their past when they were not so well know for quality or reliability, but rather cheap cars that did not last. In the Spectra I felt like I was driving a Civic (almost) I was very impressed because I have rented the previous Kia/Hyundai vehicles and hated them.

The redesigned versions of the cars are actually very attractive looking and drive really well. The material quality has improved dramatically and they don’t feel as cheap as they use to. I think the reliability will also improve and so will resale value but again this will take time.

"Toyota and Nissan"? I can see Toyota and Honda, but the newer Nissan’s especially the Altima with the 2.5 motor have some issues. I reserve judgment on the Versa until I see how well the vehicles assembly will be in Mexico I am hoping better than VW’s. Honda use to have some assembly plants in Mexico, but the newer vehicles are not manufactured there anymore. I don’t know what happened with that.

 

you now know one of the main reasons i chose a tC!

 

re-name the 2nd gen xb something else and bring back the box and include the opendeck bB as well!

 

An inexpensive roadster and/or successor to the MR2?? Sign me up!! The tC taking over the Celica postion as the small coupe from Toyota worked out great why not the MR2 which met an unfortunate production end. Price? Well Im liking the sub 15,000 area.

xB Hybrid would be great and would make sense as well. The 2.4 Hybrid Synergy is already a nice addition to the Camry line-up so adding it to meet the economy-minded consumer base makes sense.... at a price. A price gap in between base xB 5 speed and under $20,000 would seem like a great bargin especially if it gets over 30mpg and delivers the SAME HP too Just a thought. BTW the xB is the iconic model in the Scion line-up. This will make it more appealing as well as the brand as a whole.

Now the negative also is that Scion wants to keep the brand as a trendy kinda independent marquee of Toyota so Hybrid sales would bring in a different market which would conflict the demographic Scion is shooting for and wanting to lure in.
Decisions Decisions.... hey.... Toyota is on top for a reason cause they make the best choices in these situations. Lets see what happens.

 

call me crazy but I could see this in Scions line even though it has the hated name "minivan"

http://www.toyoland.com/concepts/f3r.html







maybe it's the lounge that screams at me..but it's kinda kewl!