Scion Plays Hard to Get
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From: University Place, WA
My guess is that there will probably be a 4-5 month "gap" in the line-up where all that will be available is the few remaining xA and xB models made up 'til December (and the tCs), and the new '08 models which I expect to be available maybe March or April.
Remember, that's just a guess and I don't have any inside info, so we'll see if I come close or am just blowing smoke when this all unwinds over time.
I'll be very curious about the new models, but at the same time, I think I'll be pleased I have the old one.
Tomas
Remember, that's just a guess and I don't have any inside info, so we'll see if I come close or am just blowing smoke when this all unwinds over time.
I'll be very curious about the new models, but at the same time, I think I'll be pleased I have the old one.
Tomas
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From: Mesa, Arizona
There seems to be alot of pros and cons to the whole situation. Either way someone is going to get screwed and it wont be the toyota corporation.
Limiting scion brand production would be good in a sense that the value will hold longer, the consumer will stay "unique" which is what 90% of them are looking for, etc. But like someone else said, the less demand there is for aftermarket parts, the higher the cost. Or put yourself in the shoes of the person trying to get a scion because they have as much love for it as you do, but they cant because there are none available. I'm sure you wouldnt be happy.
As far as companies go, it would be great if there was some sort of limit on companies buying the scions because that really frustrates me how much I see screen printed boxes catching the eye of the average joe with their amazing eyecandy. They make my modded box look totally stock because I dont have flashy graphics and that bugs me because more work was put into building mine for show than it was when that company handed over a few bills to a specialist and said "go to town." Back to the point, you have to think about the money situation. A company compared to the normal consumer is always going to have a more "endless" supply of money than you which is going to help them get the car easier. So limiting scions is not the answer to limiting companies that take advantage of scions uniqueness.
One last con to the whole situation is the dealerships which I feel really bad for. I ordered my scion a year ago and back then they were special order right from the toyota fleet dept. Over this past year I have watch numerous dealerships spend millions of dollars building completely seperate buildings for a "SCION" specific dept, hanging expensive signs, sponsoring scion clubs, etc. The reason? Because like someone said earlier, the scions are selling like hot cakes. I saw a report once that of the top 10 cars, toyota owned 8 of them, of those 8, 3 were all of the scions. But what happens to all that spent money if the scions are limited and there is no reason to have a specific department for scions anymore?
With all that said, I just noticed in the article that scion wants to limit them to 150,000 produced. Well, with all the complaints that I have heard about how many scions there are on the street, did you know that scion only sold 175,000 this year. If 25,000 cars spread out all over the world go unproduced, I dont think any of us are going to notice much of a difference, limit or not.
Limiting scion brand production would be good in a sense that the value will hold longer, the consumer will stay "unique" which is what 90% of them are looking for, etc. But like someone else said, the less demand there is for aftermarket parts, the higher the cost. Or put yourself in the shoes of the person trying to get a scion because they have as much love for it as you do, but they cant because there are none available. I'm sure you wouldnt be happy.
As far as companies go, it would be great if there was some sort of limit on companies buying the scions because that really frustrates me how much I see screen printed boxes catching the eye of the average joe with their amazing eyecandy. They make my modded box look totally stock because I dont have flashy graphics and that bugs me because more work was put into building mine for show than it was when that company handed over a few bills to a specialist and said "go to town." Back to the point, you have to think about the money situation. A company compared to the normal consumer is always going to have a more "endless" supply of money than you which is going to help them get the car easier. So limiting scions is not the answer to limiting companies that take advantage of scions uniqueness.
One last con to the whole situation is the dealerships which I feel really bad for. I ordered my scion a year ago and back then they were special order right from the toyota fleet dept. Over this past year I have watch numerous dealerships spend millions of dollars building completely seperate buildings for a "SCION" specific dept, hanging expensive signs, sponsoring scion clubs, etc. The reason? Because like someone said earlier, the scions are selling like hot cakes. I saw a report once that of the top 10 cars, toyota owned 8 of them, of those 8, 3 were all of the scions. But what happens to all that spent money if the scions are limited and there is no reason to have a specific department for scions anymore?
With all that said, I just noticed in the article that scion wants to limit them to 150,000 produced. Well, with all the complaints that I have heard about how many scions there are on the street, did you know that scion only sold 175,000 this year. If 25,000 cars spread out all over the world go unproduced, I dont think any of us are going to notice much of a difference, limit or not.
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i think toyota is playing on the stupidity of the youth market. they know that these vehicles are aiming to the youth market and the youth market, as everyone knows, is very finicky and fadish. what is here now may not be here tomorrow. just look at myspace.com. it is sooo yesterday.
toyota doesn't want to tell you that scion is yesterday news. they don't want to "cut you off at the knee." they now have yaris and maybe the aygo to take over the CAFE numbers produced by the xa and xb (maybe tc too) ...so they said scion will be produced in limited number which eventually means "dead."
when is the last time you see an econobox prized as "a collector item?" and if this were the case, you many of us will keep an entry-level vehicle for 20-30 years?
... i guess oldsmobile is now a prized vehicle to own, heh?
toyota doesn't want to tell you that scion is yesterday news. they don't want to "cut you off at the knee." they now have yaris and maybe the aygo to take over the CAFE numbers produced by the xa and xb (maybe tc too) ...so they said scion will be produced in limited number which eventually means "dead."
when is the last time you see an econobox prized as "a collector item?" and if this were the case, you many of us will keep an entry-level vehicle for 20-30 years?
... i guess oldsmobile is now a prized vehicle to own, heh?
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I kind of agree with ecandlcubed. I expect my xB to hold it's value and have a low cost of ownership. It's not an investment.
Fleet sales are fine with me as long as they're selling at Pure Price. It's a well-optioned car stock so the market isn't going to be flooded with stripper models nobody wants.
Fleet sales are fine with me as long as they're selling at Pure Price. It's a well-optioned car stock so the market isn't going to be flooded with stripper models nobody wants.
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From: Suburban Philadelphia
Originally Posted by Krayzie
Yea, Toyota's big enough to try stuff like this. I'm with them all the way on this, because 9 out of 10 Scions I ever see (excluding the tC's) are driven by old people, and I see a lot of Scions. It sucks.
RichC
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Joined: Nov 2006
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my XA
I went to the scion dealer in Clifton park near my house only about 15 miles away and wanted a red scion, 5 speed, w/side curtin air bages, they told me it would be imposible to find. talked to a friend in statin Island and they found me one in 24 hours so i had to go from Saratoga Springs NY down to statin Island to get mine.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5
From: Rio Grande City
well that's cool, but at the same time not really but whatever. Over here in the Rio Grande Valley, there's hardly any Scion's especially tc's, the only ones I do see are xB's. It makes it cool to have a rare car but at the same time you want it to be popular and what not.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by rdclark
This is really brilliant marketing. Think about it:
1) Start with existing mass-produced chassis and drivetrains, thereby minimizing R&D costs.
2) Build the cars in plants that would otherwise require expensive updating to handle new designs.
3) Sell through existing dealerships, requiring no investment in infrastructure.
4) Spend almost nothing on marketing and advertising, normally a huge chunk of the budget with any new model introduction.
5) Sell for list price. No discounts.
1) Start with existing mass-produced chassis and drivetrains, thereby minimizing R&D costs.
2) Build the cars in plants that would otherwise require expensive updating to handle new designs.
3) Sell through existing dealerships, requiring no investment in infrastructure.
4) Spend almost nothing on marketing and advertising, normally a huge chunk of the budget with any new model introduction.
5) Sell for list price. No discounts.
1) start with existing name brand products and/or high value products
2) try to deal with the same manufacturers
3) sell the merchandise in big easy to maintain warehouses
4)spend almost nothing on marketing and advertising. thrive off goodwill and word of mouth
5)sell everything for a flat 14% markup
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You guys are missing something here though. Even though they are "limiting" production, it means nothing. I still drive by several car lots FULL of every model Scion. If you can't get one of the 150,000 out there, you are either going to look at another brand/type of car, or wait for the next year model to come in. The only "limiting" that is going to happen is they are going to switch body styles and we already knew this was going to happen for months now. They may cut the current runs short, but only to start on the new style.
I'm sure when you go to see the "new " bodied xB or xA, there will be the "old" bodied one on the lot around the corner.
I'm sure when you go to see the "new " bodied xB or xA, there will be the "old" bodied one on the lot around the corner.
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From: University Place, WA
Toyota isn't referring to just limiting the yearly quantity of current models, but limiting production on all models, all years, as a part of the business plan. That means the new models, too. This has been a part of their 'plan' since brand inception.
Tomas
Tomas
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From: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted by Tomas
The idea is to start 'em on the Scions and when it comes time to move up to snazzier cars, they will look at Toyota. I think they are doing their job damned well!
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Well i think limiting the production could turn out to be a bad idea. If Scion becomes more popular and harder to get, the dealerships will bump up the prices on these cars. This could drive the vehicles out of the price range for the intend target group.
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Scinergy
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,701
From: Springfield, MO
Originally Posted by rdclark
This is really brilliant marketing. Think about it:
1) Start with existing mass-produced chassis and drivetrains, thereby minimizing R&D costs.
2) Build the cars in plants that would otherwise require expensive updating to handle new designs.
3) Sell through existing dealerships, requiring no investment in infrastructure.
4) Spend almost nothing on marketing and advertising, normally a huge chunk of the budget with any new model introduction.
5) Sell for list price. No discounts.
Obviously, in order to try this you have to be Toyota to begin with, and with the wrong cars they might have fallen on their faces. But they didn't risk much, and the payoff was to reap huge profits by finding a way to repackage and sell their existing technology.
Now the brand has some momentum and cachet, so eliminating paid advertising entirely seems logical, and limiting production just enough to sustain demand is also a smart move.
What's awe-inspiring is that it's one of those rare cases where the marketing brilliance is actually matched by the quality and desirability of the product. Everybody wins.
RichC
1) Start with existing mass-produced chassis and drivetrains, thereby minimizing R&D costs.
2) Build the cars in plants that would otherwise require expensive updating to handle new designs.
3) Sell through existing dealerships, requiring no investment in infrastructure.
4) Spend almost nothing on marketing and advertising, normally a huge chunk of the budget with any new model introduction.
5) Sell for list price. No discounts.
Obviously, in order to try this you have to be Toyota to begin with, and with the wrong cars they might have fallen on their faces. But they didn't risk much, and the payoff was to reap huge profits by finding a way to repackage and sell their existing technology.
Now the brand has some momentum and cachet, so eliminating paid advertising entirely seems logical, and limiting production just enough to sustain demand is also a smart move.
What's awe-inspiring is that it's one of those rare cases where the marketing brilliance is actually matched by the quality and desirability of the product. Everybody wins.
RichC
word, what he said.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
From: Capone Country, IL
I think that they'd be better served, personally, by not limiting product but increasing the diversity of the product.
They have a lot of Scion/TRD hop-ups in-store, but how about a larger line of wheels, body kits, etc. that are available at your dealer and don't void your warranty? I think it'd make more sense to sell as many Scion's as they can, but to increase the ways that one car can be differentiated from the next. Scion isn't about the Release Series philosophy as much as it should be about providing more abilities to express yourselves... so while I like them bringing in other mfg.'s when they did the Release series, it'd be cool if you could buy a Scion-Pioneer sub, a Scion-Bazooka sub, a Scion-Alpine sub, etc. different head units, different speakers in-door, etc. If they're a successful enough of a brand and a really hot image, I think they could get contracts with various companies to build for them. They sort of have this now but they almost milk the few brands they have involved vs. gun to add more to keep it fresh.
I think increasing the options, whether it be via different grill replacements, different wheels, spoilers, taillights, headlights, seats, bodykits, etc. would help make it less likely to find cars that look exactly like yours as you drive up/down the street. Maybe even consider changing the color palette yearly on all of their cars, maybe add different factory taillights yearly, different base wheels, etc. They've offered the tC in the same color palette since launch... but what if they dropped in a green, a more of a metallic blue (vs. the dark Nautical or the RS Blue from the latest release series), a medium grey vs. the Flint Mica and Silver, maybe a copper/orange color? What if they did that for the other Scion models as well to shake it all up.
Spice it up some, make it different on a yearly basis, make there be options to truly make a 2006 and 2007 stand out from each other. Keep the old options (or phase them out based on demand), but add more, but start changing the colors to be different yearly, add more options that stand out and reflect a different "look" or "taste". Make minor changes to wheels, headlights, taillights, etc. yearly to keep people on their toes. I think that, that's more important than to narrow down your userbase.
I'd rather see Toyota think outside the box more with Scion than to grow lukewarm halfway in and decided to make it a "knock, knock... what's the password?" club. I don't think Scion matters strictly on age, but I do think it matters on culture and if you "get it", you should be allowed to be a part of it, and the best way to reflect on that is to not take away the palettes (painter metaphor) from aspiring artists, but to increase the number of hues (in this case, options) provided to make the work of art that much more expressive and different. While Scion was the first group to expand the options list outward... they've done it initially and then let it get stale. Other makes are catching on, and it's only a matter of time before the Scion is just another car unless they take it further, increase the options, increase the diversity.
They have a lot of Scion/TRD hop-ups in-store, but how about a larger line of wheels, body kits, etc. that are available at your dealer and don't void your warranty? I think it'd make more sense to sell as many Scion's as they can, but to increase the ways that one car can be differentiated from the next. Scion isn't about the Release Series philosophy as much as it should be about providing more abilities to express yourselves... so while I like them bringing in other mfg.'s when they did the Release series, it'd be cool if you could buy a Scion-Pioneer sub, a Scion-Bazooka sub, a Scion-Alpine sub, etc. different head units, different speakers in-door, etc. If they're a successful enough of a brand and a really hot image, I think they could get contracts with various companies to build for them. They sort of have this now but they almost milk the few brands they have involved vs. gun to add more to keep it fresh.
I think increasing the options, whether it be via different grill replacements, different wheels, spoilers, taillights, headlights, seats, bodykits, etc. would help make it less likely to find cars that look exactly like yours as you drive up/down the street. Maybe even consider changing the color palette yearly on all of their cars, maybe add different factory taillights yearly, different base wheels, etc. They've offered the tC in the same color palette since launch... but what if they dropped in a green, a more of a metallic blue (vs. the dark Nautical or the RS Blue from the latest release series), a medium grey vs. the Flint Mica and Silver, maybe a copper/orange color? What if they did that for the other Scion models as well to shake it all up.
Spice it up some, make it different on a yearly basis, make there be options to truly make a 2006 and 2007 stand out from each other. Keep the old options (or phase them out based on demand), but add more, but start changing the colors to be different yearly, add more options that stand out and reflect a different "look" or "taste". Make minor changes to wheels, headlights, taillights, etc. yearly to keep people on their toes. I think that, that's more important than to narrow down your userbase.
I'd rather see Toyota think outside the box more with Scion than to grow lukewarm halfway in and decided to make it a "knock, knock... what's the password?" club. I don't think Scion matters strictly on age, but I do think it matters on culture and if you "get it", you should be allowed to be a part of it, and the best way to reflect on that is to not take away the palettes (painter metaphor) from aspiring artists, but to increase the number of hues (in this case, options) provided to make the work of art that much more expressive and different. While Scion was the first group to expand the options list outward... they've done it initially and then let it get stale. Other makes are catching on, and it's only a matter of time before the Scion is just another car unless they take it further, increase the options, increase the diversity.
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 30
From: Charlotte, NC
The youngest person I've seen driving a box around here has been in their early 30's. Most are 50's & 60's. Even the dealers know the old folks are snapping these up like early bird specials.
I bought my box because it was the most affordable option out there (no regular civic hatchbacks in 2005) At 30k miles a year, I needed a work horse hatch back and my box has delivered. I'm just worried that when I've driven this one into the ground I won't be able to find another.
**wishing for side curtain air bags, a highway gear and bumpers that don't scrub the curb**
I bought my box because it was the most affordable option out there (no regular civic hatchbacks in 2005) At 30k miles a year, I needed a work horse hatch back and my box has delivered. I'm just worried that when I've driven this one into the ground I won't be able to find another.
**wishing for side curtain air bags, a highway gear and bumpers that don't scrub the curb**
