Anyone who can answer this question gets a gold star: how do you make more power with an NA engine?

Platinum star: Is it possible to make 300 crank hp with the 2AZ's factory stroke?

Please include your calculations so we can see why you think it is or isn't possible.

 

Mustang World Answer for N/A Power and assuming for all engines :p is as follows:

More compression will net more horsepower and torque generally, also improving flow helps as well. Eliminating backpressure that is not needed, Increasing bore and/or stroke to raise displacement (if stroke is long, just increase bore to balance it out), and some steep gears (while not a power modification it does actually help out tremendously since n/a cars usually tend to get power higher in the rpm band).

Conversely, you could decrease the stroke and increase the bore...but that's a lot of cash. More bore is generally good for n/a engines. It allows to rev higher and make more power and it also allows more air to flow into the engine. Hence the reason many people bore the 4.6L into a 5.0L over stroking.

That's my guess.


EDIT: Overall flow includes cams to take advantage of displacement, bore, and agressive intake and exhaust mods.

 

mmm, wasn't there a thread on here about 'the road to 600hp tc'?

Can't remember if it was NA or F/I

 

I think you maybe talkin about nitto tC that thing hit like 575hp (dunno if its wheel or not) FI

 

yeah yeah, i remember it being blue... got any links?

 

www.nittosciontc.com there we go :D

 

Not an All Motor tC however interesting... But if u checked it out, u'd see that they also rebuilt the motor. So i highly doubt 575HP is achievable on the stock block.
Now back to the original subject: it seems like the max HP for an All Motor tC is somewhere in the range of 300HP?

 

There is just that certain point where you hit a wall and just can't pass it. For the 4.6L it stands at 400rwhp. FEW have got to 400rwhp due to the fact it requires race-like compression and such... not streetable.

For daily driving if you want power and reliability just turbo or supercharge it. If you will be happy and can fight off the urge for more power, go N/A.

However... if you stick with one make sure you stay that way. If you don't all the work you did will go to crap due to the fact F/I is completely different than N/A (IE: Pistons for high compression = no good, pulleys...etc... have to go).

 

U couldn't be more wrong buddy... For Daily Driving and Reliability don't recommend something that can potentially leave ur car M.I.A. if and when the motor gets blown.
The only safe F.I. daily driver would be the TRD S/C at this moment in time. Turbo hasn't been fully proven to be a safe daily driver just yet. In anycase to have an F.I. car built the right way u'll need to rebuild the motor. Anyone tellin u different should rethink their statements.

 

you could always do the alpha works throttle body, header exhaust, and intake that they claim gives u 25hp, plus a 75 shot.... 100hp for about $2,000 add the s/c u could maybe get 300 hp if tuned right maybe 350

 

Nah its more then 300 cuz we have 9:6:1 bump the compression to a 11 or a 10 somthing. And will all bolt ons good cams and some valve work and port n polish, and all the other stuff. Im guessing 400 whp is achivable. I mean if b18c5 can get 300 whp built I know the tc can get more then that.

 

There is a lot more to increasing horsepower and torque than boring, stroking and adding compression. All that stuff will give you the means to increase power but without a good support system it is just as easy to blow a NA motor as it is to blow a FI motor. And whoever was talking about the adjustable 6 speed tranny could you please explain that. I have heard of 6 speeds but not adjustable ones.

 

If you think a N/A motor with rough stage 3 type cams, high compression, race gas, and built motor is not going to run into an issue and will be reliable on the street, then go for it "buddy". As well as street legal.

Also, there are many mustangs that run around with crappy pressed carbon-fiber pistons that don't blow. It all has to do with the driver, tune, and other things of that nature. If you beat the ____ out of the car, then yeah, it's going to blow. If you drive like a sane person then you will be in the clear for a while. Does turbo/supercharging put extra stress on the internals and overall engine? Hell yes it does, but I can honestly say I would be more comfortable driving a turbo car and pass emissions than having a car that wouldn't pass emissions and would need octane booster or race gas all the time.

Low boost levels will not blow away the internals. The internals on the tC are already forged for low boost. So, what does that suggest? Leave it at low boost and you'll be fine. Anyone who knows how to drive a car correctly, drive like they have a brain, and general car care will be okay.

To be 100% safe, yeah, rebuild the motor. But a proper air-fuel ratio and tune will leave you okay. That is why it is also good to have a tune after you get a mail-order tune. Every car is different.

Long post, but in short just hear me out. Either way you will have problems and it really depends on what you want and the person behind the wheel. There are people who blow up stock mustangs and other cars. There are people who can handle power respectfully; then there are those that can't. There are so many variables to take into acount.

Arg, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that lol.

 

There are three C's to all motor power: Carbs, cams, and compression. Since we have injection, we can just say we need to size the intake side to flow enough air to make the power we want. We need to jack the compression as high as the fuel we are allowed to run can stand (not much for any pump gas available these days), and we're going to have to focus on a part of the rpm range we don't really like to use, the high rpm part.

So, why is there a problem? The stock stroke is not short enough to really spin the engine reliably.

A short history lesson: F1 banned turbochargers in 1989. When they did this, the very next year redlines on the engines doubled. Why you ask? Because they KNOW they can only make so much torque without boost. So what's the problem you ask? Because if your torque is limited by induction, then you have to use rpm to make the power you need. Now F1 engines redline near 20k rpm. It's the only way they can make the horsepower they need to be competitive.

So back to the 2AZ problem. The stroke is too long to spin it to 8 or 10k rpm reliably, and that's how you will get 300+ hp out of 2.4 liters with enough powerband to still drive on the street. Sure you can build an engine with a powerband 2k wide, but it's useless on the street. You lose more than 2k rpm just shifting from 1st to 2nd. Put it this way, it isn't easy to get 125 hp/liter out of an engine without sacrificing something. Bikes are doing this, but again, they are using rpm to get power, not making big torque.

Street car drivers like big torque because it feels good. Why do you think the tC has such low 1st and 2nd gears, and a low final drive? Quick off the line, and responsive at speed, even in 5th gear, a super overdrive gear.

You will have to completely change the nature of the engine to get it making big power without boost. It isn't economical, it isn't reliable, and it isn't streetable. Ask anyone who has tried to drive a Formula Atlantic 4A-G engine on the street. It just doesn't work. They're great for FA cars, but they suck to drive on the street.

 

To do any of the big Three F.I/A.M, a change in the nature of the engine there will be.
Daily drivin is gonna be sacraficed the deeper u get into the game, but thats the life we live.

 

there is a such thing as adgustabke gearboxs were you can physicaly change the gear ratios, although rare the most common way of changing ratios is by already made kits like on the Lotus 340R. but yes hopefully if its possible it would be pretty amazing if a new aftermarket gear box were to be designed for the tC were you could do some swipety swaps and bam u can be topin out at 180, but thats not gonna happen till u have atleast 300 horsies to make it worth while

 

[quote="R2D2"]I laughed when I read this. Sounds like some crazy street racer motto. (Sorry for getting off topic.)

 

I can see someone saying that to Paul Walker.

 

is anybody making a intake manifold yet?..that , header, exhaust and throttle body should yield a pretty sweet gain, and w.t.h? what do we want ? its a front wheel drive 4 banger, personally i dont want 400 horsepower going to the front wheels, the torque steer would be insane! i mean for me i would happy with 200 crank hp at this point , the handling ,balance and overall drivability of the car would be intact , and not to mention some semblance of gas mileage, and as for f i vs n/a, for me..i like n/a, smooth seamless hp. i just wish i could find someone in my area credible enough to do a port and polish job.

 

Oh you mean that you want gear sets not an adjustable gearbox. You can put gear sets in anything its just how much are you willing to pay for the kit or to have the kit made. I thought he meant like an in car adjustable gearbox.