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Intercooling N/A tC

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Old Dec 23, 2005 | 05:48 PM
  #61  
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I didn't go that direction... already have a guage on my dash... I'm going fuel pressure/ Nitrous pressure / and Wideband O2 in my a pillar.
Old Dec 23, 2005 | 06:21 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by jmiller20874
Having too big of an intercooler will kill most of the benefits of your turbo. Sure the air will be cooler but if it's too big, the air will lose velocity and you'll lose HP. But if the intercooler is too small then it wouldn't be efficient enough to cool the charge, it's not really about restriction but cooling efficiency. With exhausts bigger is NOT always better, same principle applies. If the pipe is too big you'll lose velocity and you'll lose power. Why do you think people don't just stick 3" exhausts on 4-bangers?

In a N/A setup, your car creates a vacuum to pull air into the intake, by making the pipe too long or complicated, the vacuum does work as well. Try this, use a 8" straw to drink from a glass, works good huh? Now try a 4' straw to drink from the same glass, not so easy is it?
Not necessarily. It all depends on the internal desity of the core. If you're running an extruded tube then most likely you wont even notice the difference. The job of an intercooler is to exchange heat out of the air passing through the inside of it. The longer that air is exposed to the cooling fin, the more heat will be extracted. More density = more cooling. Unfortunately the more dense the intercooler is, the slower the air moves through it when the duty cycle is higher. The way to counter this is to add more tubes so the individual duty cycle of each tube is lowered. Intercooling is a science that a lot of people don't really pay attention to. It all depends on what you want to do.

As far as intercooling an N/A motor - a total waste of time. An intercooler's purpose is to bring the air passing through the inside as close to ambient temperature as possible. Unless you have some type of cooling agent like water, n2o, alcohol spraying on the intercooler - it's only going to be able to cool the air to ambient temperature. You might as well just put a cold air intake and be done with it.
Old Dec 23, 2005 | 06:53 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
Originally Posted by jmiller20874
100 Degrees Celsius? You do realize that is the boiling point of water right? I damn straight wouldn't want air to enter my throttle body at that temperature.


Originally Posted by I
may be able to keep temperatures down to at the very very most, 100 degrees celsius.
The water would be able to keep intake temperature much lower than that. After the water starts boiling, the temperature decrease would be non-existent.. right? Makes sense doesn't it? If for some reason or another you're drag racing in 100+ degree temperature, the water would keep intake charge at around 100 degrees rather than 100+ degrees. I cited the boiling point of water because boiling water has a constant temperature and would continue to take away heat energy from intake charge if the intake charge is running 100+ degrees. This will happen until the water in the intercooler is 100% steam.

BTW, I would congratulate anyone that can find 212 degree temperature and race in it. I'd also send him or her a glass of water.

Originally Posted by aarontrini85
that and the .5 hp incres the water and ice would give us would be canceled out by the restrictivenes and added weight


That is a straight through water-air intercooler. There is no added restriction.




And please don't think that I actually think intercooling an NA setup is a good idea. It's a waste.

Check Dr. Isotope's GFI intake.
Ok we may or may not be on the same page here. Boiling water does have a constant temperature yes BUT only if the steam has some where to go. In a pressurized system it is possible to heat water past the point of boiling without it turning to steam. Ok maybe this is getting a little deep here, I thoroughly understand the purpose of a water-to-air intercooler in the case of turbo charging but um, hmmm, ok I think the initial mention of using water at 100 degrees Celsius to cool an intake charge just totally screwed me up.
Old Dec 23, 2005 | 06:58 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by scion-tific
Not necessarily. It all depends on the internal desity of the core. If you're running an extruded tube then most likely you wont even notice the difference. The job of an intercooler is to exchange heat out of the air passing through the inside of it. The longer that air is exposed to the cooling fin, the more heat will be extracted. More density = more cooling. Unfortunately the more dense the intercooler is, the slower the air moves through it when the duty cycle is higher. The way to counter this is to add more tubes so the individual duty cycle of each tube is lowered. Intercooling is a science that a lot of people don't really pay attention to. It all depends on what you want to do.

As far as intercooling an N/A motor - a total waste of time. An intercooler's purpose is to bring the air passing through the inside as close to ambient temperature as possible. Unless you have some type of cooling agent like water, n2o, alcohol spraying on the intercooler - it's only going to be able to cool the air to ambient temperature. You might as well just put a cold air intake and be done with it.
My words sometimes don't come out right but I was really referring to the internal volume of the intercooler itself. If the internal volume of the intercooler is too great for the amount of boost then the turbo lag will be tremendous, agreed? So in other words if the internal volume is great enough then it would be possible to run out of RPM's before the engine ever sees maximum boost hence negating the very result a person would hope to gain.
Old Dec 23, 2005 | 07:24 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by WeDriveScions
I didn't go that direction... already have a guage on my dash... I'm going fuel pressure/ Nitrous pressure / and Wideband O2 in my a pillar.
I know my new Scion isnt my old DSM, but old habits die hard. I didnt trust my water temp on my DSM at all, I "feel" better knowing my water temp is 100% accurate. The tolerance for the needle on the stock gauge to move up a little is very high. I know this because I forgot to fully tighten a radiator hose and strated to leak coolant from the pipe (after installing the gauge probe) and my temps were sky high on the piller gauge but the needle on the dash didnt even move one bit until it got to be VERY VERY high, I mean the autometer was reading 300+ after the needle moved on the stocker. I dont trust factory gauges from past experiences.
Old Dec 23, 2005 | 08:58 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Kenshin
Originally Posted by WeDriveScions
I didn't go that direction... already have a guage on my dash... I'm going fuel pressure/ Nitrous pressure / and Wideband O2 in my a pillar.
I know my new Scion isnt my old DSM, but old habits die hard. I didnt trust my water temp on my DSM at all, I "feel" better knowing my water temp is 100% accurate. The tolerance for the needle on the stock gauge to move up a little is very high. I know this because I forgot to fully tighten a radiator hose and strated to leak coolant from the pipe (after installing the gauge probe) and my temps were sky high on the piller gauge but the needle on the dash didnt even move one bit until it got to be VERY VERY high, I mean the autometer was reading 300+ after the needle moved on the stocker. I dont trust factory gauges from past experiences.
My DSM is the same way, water temp, and oil pressure are beat. The gauge cluster in those cars are just dummy gauges. But I will get gauges for the tC after my warrenty is up, because then I will care a whole lot more...
Old Dec 23, 2005 | 10:50 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by jmiller20874
Ok we may or may not be on the same page here. Boiling water does have a constant temperature yes BUT only if the steam has some where to go. In a pressurized system it is possible to heat water past the point of boiling without it turning to steam. Ok maybe this is getting a little deep here, I thoroughly understand the purpose of a water-to-air intercooler in the case of turbo charging but um, hmmm, ok I think the initial mention of using water at 100 degrees Celsius to cool an intake charge just totally screwed me up.
For the most part, we're on the same page. Intake charge will probably never go up to the boiling point of water so who cares, eh? I just wanted to say that the air-water intercooler will actually help a little (possibly) as opposed to an air-air intercooler which, as mentioned, is an odd notion at best.
Old Dec 24, 2005 | 05:14 PM
  #68  
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alright this is out of hand and the question has been answered by original post
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