Scion-ce

Oh and you will see it.......on my car

TC-N-Philly

me too
me too

davedavetC

iTrader: (4)

LOL!


(thought this would be a good chance to post somethin so i can watch this thread hehe)

alex8181

From what I understand the MMW header was designed to follow a hybrid design used on high end race headers (Hytech and SMSP). It is supposed to give you power throughout the entire powerband as opposed to a 4-1 or 4-2-1 which excels in high or low parts of the powerband. I haven't seen any independent dynos to confirm this though.

Scion-ce

Where did you get this info from?

alex8181

MMW or WR based this header off of their race header for the B18C5 engine (Integra Type R). That particular header was based off of the Hytech and SMSP headers which basically elongated the secondary primaries. In doing so they were able to increase power throughout the powerband without losing power with traditional 4-1 and 4-2-1 headers. I assume this design would do well with our engines but I don't know what the difference from moving a header designed for a 1.8 litere high rpm engine to a 2.4 liter engine would be. As far as I know, no one has done a true header test from the current lineup of headers and the MMW to compare objectively.
For those wanting more information about these race headers for the b18c5, I suggest looking for a header test done by titanmotorsports done a few years back. A search on Honda forums for Hytech and SMSP will be able to get you some useful information also.

Whocares05050

^ Very intresting.

scholarbb

So Scion-ce you've probably done more reseach on this than anyone. Does the MMW really make more power than Alpha or is it all in the S-pipe? Are the pipes smooth on the inside or do the welds cause constriction?

Scion-ce

I've never taken my car to dyno. The butt dyno tells me this thing pulls a lot harder. I've never driven a tC with the Alpha so i couldn't tell you if one is better. The key here is sound. I have heard a tC with the Alpha and it sounds raspy as hell. Mine is not (i have a resonator).
In terms of the pipes. DOn't even get me started. Lets just say I had some issues with their header. They sent me some "unaesthetic" headers. Had to send 2 back. Got the 3rd, It was still jacked up. Iwas ____ed and just said "F it!" I can't wait any longer and just slapped it on. Definitly not the greatest in terms of the customer service.

PghtC

How are you liking the ZPI intake??

Sorry, I had to. :D

PnZrFsT

So, whats the official choice on this 4-1 or 4-2-1, or MMW? Seems to be split down the field a bit

scholarbb

Several people have had complaints about MMW due to fitment on another thread. Alpha does'nt seem to have had as many issues. Although one has come up just recently.

As far as 4-1power versus 4-2-1 power I guess no one really knows for sure. The highest horsepower NA dyno i've seen so far was using a MMW header. The highest torque NA dyno was Alpha. We need a comparison dyno.

Scion-ce

The MMW dynoed 15whp and 14wtq on a stock tC. I don't think the Alpha made more than 14wtq

toyota_scion_tc

Same question, from all the research I have ever done 4-2-1 is better for hp and 4-1 is better for torque.

Scion-ce

I think you got it backwards. Its more like 4-1 is better for top end and 4-2-1 is better for low to mid range.

scholarbb

Torque is influenced by back pressure which the 4-1 creates by cramming 4 tubes into 1 quickly. Top end horse power is increased by maximum flow. The 4-2-1 does this by gradually stepping down. Torque is most beneficial for day in and day out driving-it gets used all the time. Top end horsepower is best for drag racing because you hit top end and stay there for the entire run. I think this is how it works.