True story

 

Well my brother, lets break your analysis and uncover your misunderstandings. "First and foremost" its imperative that you read what is written before you comment. "My people perish because of lack of knowledge." You, my friend, appear to have much knowledge WRT the tC, something i cannot by any means discredit. HOWEVER, its imperative that you read what i wrote. I don't mind that people bash what they want/believe that i say or said.

1) I never said that Fred would start his car with the TRD reflash....read my aforementioned posting.

2) I never said this was the perfect setup BY ANY MEANS....read my aforementioned posting

3) I never said that i used "the stock ecu".... read my aforementioned posting.

4) If you actually hadpersonal experience with number to prove what you're saying, i'd have much more respect for these specific "observations" you have

5) For the LAST flippin time, i said i'm NOT driving the car like this. It was driven a few times (5-7), and notice that AFR's are consistent and (as we all have stated b4) begin to lean out toward the top of the rpm band. The tC is currently sitting in my security gate waiting to be carted off for more surgery

6) Engine check light is on, and ONLY indicates an O2 sensor malfunction because there is no secondary cat.



Ladies and gentlemen, please, all i ask is that you READ what is written before you jump to conclusions. Sheesh .

Finally, for those of you who WOULD BE crazy enough to do what i did, research before you do. You do NOT want to blow up your motor. Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.

 

Agreed my friend, PTuning has some of the most progressive engineering put into they're products. Who knows with what i'm getting from uncle sam, i may just do that. Is elevations built motor still for sale?? Maybe i'll just have an all out beast

 

I'm not sure if you're referring to me but I seriously considered trying the TRD ECU flash for a T04E 50 trim at 6psi. I decided against it mainly because the flash is irreversible and I've heard that it pulls too much timing. What the TRD flash would do well is injector size compensation. The TRD flash will have no problem trimming 440cc. I ran 6psi for about 6 months with 440cc injectors, no flash and no piggyback. The ECU did a remarkable job of adapting to the injectors (440cc is the upper limit, IMO). It took about 100 miles to learn them, after which the car ran great. Better than a piggy with a mediocre tune. It never stalled, never stumbled, never knocked and OL AFRs were between 10.5 and 11.5:1. The biggest problems were a recurring P0101 caused by the increased air intake and the 100 miles it took the ecu to re-learn trims if the battery was disconnected. It didn't run too well for the first 100 miles while the ECU was learning the 25% larger injectors. After the initial 100 miles the only CEL I ever had was the P0101 for MAF out of range.

I agree with Tc_litigator that it is possible to tune a low-boost turbo engine without a piggyback or standalone. I wouldn't recommend it only because of the difficulty finding the right combination and the potential risk. However, IMHO it can be done and done well. You could use a MAF signal clamp or basic MAF signal modifier, a return fuel system with a 1:1 or RR FPR, a carefully tuned MAF pipe, a boost activated O2 sensor signal modifier (URD, Flyin' Miata) and WMI would easily negate any need to retard ign timing at only 6psi.

Basically I went with the FIC mainly to eliminate the P0101 without having to fabricate a new intake/MAF pipe and to pull timing so I wouldn't need WMI. I was also concerned that reducing/clamping the MAF signal to avoid the P0101 would lean out my OL AFRs forcing me to compensate with progressively higher fuel pressure, requiring a return system and FPR. The FIC and harness probably cost about the same as the mods necessary to tune without them so for 99.9%, a piggyback is the best choice, but not necessarily the only choice. JMO.

Oh yeah, I agree 100% with DezodDon. If I had known how little I knew when I embarked on my boost project, I would have paid a professional shop to do it instead.

Anyway, I suppose that boosting without a piggy or EMS does belong on this list even if it can be done.

 

You never said it, you're right, I think you missed the context that I was using it in.

It is far from perfect, it's altogether wrong.

It's already understood you're using a STOCK ECU w/ TRD FLASH. You are using the TRD flash with no piggyback or other management system. There is no such thing as a TRD ECU, it's a STOCK ECU with FLASH. Once flashed it cannot go back to "stock".

Funny, you think I don't have personal experience...you would be entirely wrong in your "observation".

Highlighted text contradicts highlighted text, further indication that you're doing it wrong, which is the basis of this thread.

Which code is it showing? Is it one that would cause the car to go into open loop in which case your AFR "consistency" that you already misrepresent would be incorrect.

No one is jumping to conclusions, we're stating the obvious based on what you already have said.

Lack of proper preparation LEADS to poor performance.

 

I'm going to cut you off here because I think you missed the point I was making. The idea isn't that it can't be done, it most certainly can, i.e. ZPI Stage 0, with a smaller turbo.

The point here is that it shouldn't be done, you stated your reasons why you opted not to do it, tC_litigator is going well beyond the bounds of what's actually "safe" .63 A/R exhaust .70 A/R compressor is not equivalent to T04E 50 trim.

This is the part where it just gets iffy, the idea here is to provide general rules of thumb without going into the vast details and differences between turbos, housing sizes, CFM, etc.

The general rule of thumb here and I think everyone agrees, is simple, don't boost without a proper tune, utilizing the TRD flashed ECU is not a proper tune and far from ideal.

 

Thank you sir, i respect that. Honestly, I just thought it would be interesting to see additional results since so many people are against it w/o first had experience. I will also stop there. There's no need to disagree about a point we seem to agree with.

I digress...

 

A Scion is not exempt from Murphy's Law.

 

My results were with a .63A/R turbine housing, stage 3 wheel, .60A/R compressor housing, 3" major dia., 2.122" inducer (50 trim) wheel. But you're right, many other factors are part of the overall equation.

All in all, we all seem to agree that boosting w/o at least a piggyhack is a big "what not to do" for the vast majority of peeps. I'm out...

 

This is didn't know. I figured as long as i stay under 11LBS on a good tune i would be ok.

 

ZOMG!

 

dont buy used con rods, I dont care what the seller "thinks" or says!!!!!!!!!!!

 

you know who you are

 

???

 

uh oh, sounds like an epic story, what happened?

 

hes trying to make fun of u saying stage 3 because staged turbos are usually china chargers....

but since he is not a very bright kid, he had no idea u were running a precision..

 

nothing except one of my customers recently was screwed over by another memeber on here. I told him i didnt think it was a good idea but he did it anyways under the great advice of a certain someone. he got the con rods almost a month or two after he payed for em and got damaged con rods (this is something you cant blame ups on...lol), they didnt look right to me and the machine shop confirmed that today. Ill leave it at that.

 

wow thats sucks, sorry to hear that

 

what kind of rods?

 

Ill let my customer explain the rest if he wishes.