All in the tune.

 

Yup

 

i don't think it had anything to do with the tune, i think that i beat the hell out of the car extremely bad every stop light and stop sign i was launching the car and taken the car to 129mph everytime me and my buddys hit the highway. I also don't think my car would have ever went 12.7 if it wasnt' a good tune and for asking questions i ask everyone as much as possible because i thought some people had fast scions and they would know some stuff about them but like i thought they put money but NO time at all into there scions another thing to all the people that say its in the tune...... you have never even took your car to a faster limit. Meaning on a stock block the most you other people have done is what ? 10.5psi and 13.4 1/4time meaning i guess you just can't tune it to go faster right? and another thing this topic was on me building my car not to tear it apart so please stay on topic or will have this thread locked. It sucks that when you try doing something good with your car you get off the topic answers and not support. oh well i'm workin on pics later but for now i'm workin on gettin car done.

 

Mike, talk to us more about your tune. I mean it would be great to learn from the folks at the forfront of FAST tC's. What hardware where you running? Injector sizes? How was the tune controlled? How do your fuel enrichment maps look like? You tunning off boost, maf ect? Where you taking timming out? How much and at what points? What type of on-board diagnostics do you have? Where you getting any knock? What types of spark-plugs are you using?

 

^ Good questions. Curious to know myself.

 

What was the leaner AFR you have hit Mike? and the richer? What Engine Management are u using? At what RPM is your car fully boosted? Your best time in the track? Is your sister hot?

 

tuned by kenny @ zpi and as soon as i get done building block i will go back and get a higher boost tune.

 

Mike don't get defensive with me. Also do not be immature to attack us on our tune. Yes our lower boost with DOT drags and 4 12s ran a slower time, what does that prove?

I'm still driving on the same motor, which I can't say for you. Now I'm not saying you had a horrible tune, but knowing what you can get away with and what is unsafe is very important in the motor business. What good is even 400whp if you can't keep it reliable?

I'm not trying to attack you mike, I'm trying to protect your investment. You need to understand that understanding a TUNE is more important than just running lower compression. It's not just fuel and ignition. What's the fuel pressure, how good is the cooling efficiency, is the turbo in it's efficiency range, etc...

We don't blow up our motors because we know what we can push and what we can't through testing and datalogging. We know that anything over 11psi is detrimental over time, regardless of your tune. It's been proven on this board by multiple people, customer or not. You can't just pull 6 degrees timing back and make it rich and think it'll hold. Running too rich is a bad thing too. A 12.2 or so is a great tune and makes for a pretty fun car, without wasting gas. At the same time you can't have an y predetonation, pinging, or even detonation after a certain tmie. Know that ignition timing also effects your AF and simply pulling timing without adding fuel will actually make your car run much richer.

What would help everyone here help you is to know this...

What type of injectors
What type of fuel system (pump, FPR, etc)
Boost control
EMS
and pick anything else you deem relevant....

This forum is about helping everyone, not attacking them for supposed weaknesses. I wasn't attacking you in any way, so don't attack me, it's very immature. I'm just looking to help.

 

A lot of my questions are related to the specifics of the tune -Unless Kenny chimes in, I don't think we will get any info in this area. I'm always looking for more tuning info on the tC.

I love it how the tC ECU is so smart that it adds fuel before it changes gears (automatic transmission). Lots of cool stuff to learn for the folks who data-logg.

 

That indeed. Datalogging is what we call the shiznit.

Looking forward to more results here.

 

um not tring to be immature but i ran a 12.7 on BFG drag radials that are DOT approved. And while on that note i was talking about my build on this post and it turned into my tune when all i was going to do was post pics and then when all said and done post slips but like i said in the past i guess i just won't post here anymore because people can't just let it be what it was supposed to be. Thank you and when car is done then i will post pics on a locked thread.

 

wow

 

Hey Mike,

The thread was started by you stating that you where going to build your block up for more boost because you has cracked your piston ring-lands from running your car too hard. I'm cool with all that

Some of the scion folks are just trying to figure out why your ring-lands gave up the ghost so quick -that's all.

I was sort of hoping to learn some thing about what to look for when tuning a Turbo charged tC so I would not have to rebuild my engine any time soon. I will probably need to start a new thread on that. Didn't mean to jack your thread.

-Back to topic-

Got any pictures of what a cracked ring-land looks like?

 

Sorry I was wrong about your tires. I must have misread something somewhere.


Anyway... The reason why I kept bringing up your tune was because we're trying to prevent your new motor from blowing as well. What good is a build if the tune can't handle it? I still look forward to seeing your new motor, and I hope you get your tune down for the build. It seems like you should be making some good power so hopefully more people here will be inspired to do the same.

 

Yeah, but the thing is, he has been boosted about a week after we got boosted. Which was Nov. - Dec. of last year. I wouldn't consider that to be "quick failing ring-lands" when we beat on the cars as much as we do. You push the car to it's limits. What's the point of going boost, only to baby it afterwards. Some people care about reliability, others (like us), care about going faster.


Some play safe.....others play hard.

 

Again I have nothing more to add now.

Anytime I make a comment on anything ZPI related I see a few people jump on myself or Paul as if we're going after someone. Sorry for posting. GL with the build.

BTW rhythm...

When you sell turbo kits to customers, you'll understand that we can't build kits that blow motors out of the box because we "push the envelope". Most people that buy kits from us DD their car and need to know that if they tool on it and can make it home later without worring about blowing anything up.

 

FYI Joe....No turbokit manufactures/distributors sale turbo kits that "push the envelope" out of the box. Not even the Stage 1 ZPI kit "Pushes the envelope" out of the box. It comes on 8 lbs of boost, not the 10 lbs (if you want 10 out the box, just ask, but it's not feasible to go from stock to straight 10lbs of boost). The tunes are nice and rich. Exactly which company would you be refering to that blows motors out of the box? Hope your not implying that ZPI turbokits blow motors out of the box, as you and I know that would be a false statement. The only motors ZPI has ever blown has been on their OWN cars. You know, the ones that are breathing on 11 secs in the 1/4 mile (it's their job to find out what these motors can handle, so we don't have to find out for ourselves). No, their customer cars are not pushed to extreme limits just by bolting on their kit. MikeScion is the only customer thus far who is building his motor (to which it took him nearly half a year to reach the limits of the engine, with constant beating on it every weekend as I myself do).


I'm a cool guy, so I hope you don't think I was talking bad to you.


PS...We daily drive our car too. AND beat on it on the weekend.

 

blah blah blah blah blah





blah blah blah i still say til this day i think a car that isn't daily driven and in magazines and is a shop car should be faster then a daily drivin customers car...... right? or maybe there tune isn't right ?

 

i think its really funny how many dezod customers are building there blocks now LOL

 

Mikes car was heavily abused prior to the turbo kit posting the fastest all motor times time and time and time again. Mike races his car everyday and every weekend. Mikes car we tuned on 11psi with a very safe conservative map. No different than any other map that we build. We have had cars run for a very long time on these very similar maps the car ran 5 degrees of timing under boost with mid 10 to low 11 AFR. The car has ran like this all season with Mike racing it every time the track is open and street racing it every weekend.

A tune is important but how you drive the car supersedes this 10 fold. Mikes car has been beaten to he!! and back the entire summer I think this shows just how great the tune is and the durability of this engine. A bolt on turbo kit is to be used by a guy wanting some more power when getting on the highway and the occasional track visit. If you race the car everyday it will blow up eventually it does not matter who tuned it or what kit it is or even if it is turbo charged for that matter.

We have blown up our gray and silver tC…The silver car lets loose trapping 125+ in the ¼ on stock rods and the gray car dropped a stock valve on a stock engine at 8000+ rpm…You are right we have done this. We pride ourselves in doing this. We make real parts for real enthusiasts; we test and retest all of our products to insure the durability of our kit and the car it is going on. We do not have a show car, we have r&d cars…these do not live their life looking pretty and winning car shows they are used and abused to insure our customers can beat on their car an entire race season and the stock engine holds together. They might have to rebuild in the off season but it is not like there is a hole in the block. (We only do that to our cars at our own event)

ZPIracing customers get built engines because they want to…in this case he needed one but only based upon his driving habits and goals from day one. Our kits do not so to say “push the envelope” by any means straight out of the box. Straight out of the box kits are super reliable and hell, our Stage 0 is engineered so well it does not need fuel management. You will never see a post about a ZPI customer getting a turbo kit and two weeks later pulling his engine out. Our **** works because we test it while you are washing your show car…

-Kenny