bigmouth2008

Captain_tC, i understand your frustration, i have the very same problem. But keep saying things like Lemon Law suits is just none sense. The Lemon laws are specific toward ineffective powertrain and unexpected breakdowns. Rattles don't fit there. And you just made Toyota people think that we are just bunch of headless chicken and making all the "unreasonable" demands.

jaydub

That's actually not quite accurate. For one thing, it varies by each state. For example, Nevada's Lemon Law states that "The manufacturer of the vehicle, its agent or its authorized dealer must replace the motor vehicle or refund the purchase price if the defect is not remedied in four attempts or if the total repair time exceeds 30 days and the defect "substantially impairs the use and value of the motor vehicle to the buyer" and the defect "is not the result of abuse, neglect or unauthorized modifications or alterations."

In a nutshell, something like this can decrease value, so it could fall into the category of being lemon lawed. Furthermore, we can't be sure whether this rivet could have some sort of mechanical problem associated with it, such as weakening the roof structure. It's a pretty large can of worms that is being opened with this discovery.

xlr8tC

Captain_tC

2 words.

Caveat Emptor

If you feel like you were ripped off, well, you maybe shoulda researched first. It's not like this rattle has been a secret. Or the blind spot. Or the low geared manual tranny. Or the water spotting on the seats. Or any of the other hundred things people complain about on here. I knew about them when I bought my car. Why didn't you? Did you think yours would come off a magical assembly line somewhere in Oz and be blessed by the good witch of the north? Was yours hand delivered by the Lollipop Guild?

I have no patience for people that complain and threaten without firm grounding. I apologize if I've offended you, but turnabout is fair play. And the world owes you nothing.

jaydub

then why do cars come with warranties and quality control?

bigmouth2008

Divadax, can you try one fix on your own? I did that and it helped tremendously. Remember you said earlier that when you lifted up the hatch and drove around the parking lot, no noise whatsoever? It happened to me as well. I lifted up the hatch and let my wife sit in the back seat (she can’t drive manual) and drove on a slightly rough road for like half a mile. The rattle was completely gone. Then we closed the hatch, and drove on the same road again, the rattles came back. Then we repeated the same experiment, same results. That let me to think that something is making the noise when the hatch is closed. The only part that is in contact is the hatch doorlock/latch. And since our tCs’ structure is somewhat weak (no metal roof), it makes sense that the locking mechanism bounce around a little bit (which makes a very small but annoying metal to metal ding). What I did is to wrap a couple layers of electrical tape around the hatch lock’s staying metal rod (on top of the bumper). We noticed an immediate improvement. I have been driven my car with this fix for 4 days now and up till I saw your post with that “unseated rivet” I really thought my problem is solved (at least brought under control).

My interpretation of this is that the latch/locking mechanism bounce side ways when the the car flexes. That explains why rattles only occur on some seemingly small bumps and rough pavements but not on some bigger bumps. On bigger bumps, the body probably move in vertical motions and the latch lock is made of plastic like material which makes less noise when it comes in contact with the locking rod. On the other hand, when the car is moving along on rough surface and small bumps, the car is probably making all kinds of flexes (sideways in particular), the locking rod and latch wall (metal) made a lot of small contacts (because of the small gap). Metal to metal, noise started.

I still think there are some small “ding-like” rattles but in a lot more subtle way and much less frequent. Maybe the unseated rivet is just one contributing factor, however, I highly recommend you try my fix and see if that eliminates the rattle completely. I have to say that there are many small rattles inside the cabin (such as seat belt rub against the fabric surface), and those are tolerable and fixable (like bucket up those unused seat belts.)

At last, I am still going to call Scion to check out that rivet thing. I don’t believe my solution is a permanent and final one as I can still hear some minor dings in the back (or up). But please try it and let me know your thoughts.

bigmouth2008

Ok, I think you have a point. Now, the question is, should we try to get a lawsuit going or not? Should it be a class action one? How many participants should be in there? What would be the impact of this kind of lawsuits whether you won or not?

Captain_tC

Incorrect buddy. It is not specific to the powertrain and breakdowns. It can apply to anything. As long as the dealership exceeds their amount of repair attempts. However I will agree it will be hard to win a lemon lawsuit for rattles. However, there is a limit to how many times I will allow them to replace my roof. It does lower the value of my car. Would you buy a car from me if I told you that the roof has been replaced 3 times?

atticdog

I have an appointment tomorow at 9:30 at the dealership and a special toyota rep will be there to go for a ride in my car. The dealership heard all the rattles and they attempted to do the sunroof tsb but the sunroof frame stripped so they need to replace that too. Toyota didnt want my dealership to atempt to change the runroof without a rep there. So tomorow is the day that im leaveing it with them for a few days. I will bring a print out of the rivit solution.My car has already been there 5 times.

divadax

bigmouth2008 - I tried every fix on my own that didn't involve taking anything apart including wrapping the pin with electrical tape. Today the rattle was up to a 6 on a scale of 10 so at this rate it will sound just like before in no time. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to see about trading it in. My car looks like the day I bought it July 27th only now it has 3 coats of wax and probably the quietest trunk of any TC considering all the work they did (and 1600 miles). That damn ping though...coming back with a vengance. I agree...it's got to be in the hatch catch itself, the part that locks to the rod/pin on the bumper. Almost like the spring in it is tapping/scratching the housing (?) This is soooooo frustrating...I put money down and payed extra on my first payment, now I'll probably have to pay to get out of it....doesn't seem fair.

fearturtle44

Since I have music on about 95% of the time, the rattle is rather muted. It is annoying as it comes and goes (kind of like divadax's tC where the rattle was not there but now is coming back). But I would really think twice about trading in the tC. You will lose on a trade-in and there is no guarantee your next car will be rattle (or other problems) free.

Good luck on what you decide to do.

Can everyone ride a few minutes with the hatch up and guarantee no rattle is present? Then close the hatch and see how long it is before the rattle is back.

Thanks.

Kevin

bigmouth2008

damn, so you tried it already. What should i do now?

atticdog

divadax anything i should say to the rep tomorow ?
anything that you learned from your expeirence?

Captain_tC

Just got the call from the service manager today after he got a call from a scion specialist that I filed a complaint with. A master tech is coming from New Jersey next week to take a ride with me. So hopefully something good will come of this. However, I have very little hope left as this is the 5th time I am going in for the same problem. I wish they never replaced the sunroof because this one is much worse than the last. I think its the dual roof design itself that is flawed.

I decided to try and sell the car rather than get majorly ripped off with a trade in. But I cant in good conscience sell this piece of junk to anyone without it being truly fixed first. Dam my morals!

divadax

Atticdog...sorry....no advise...I'm probably screwed. I want a car that doesn't rattle! Tomorrow I'll probably be more ____ed when the dealer screws me on a trade. Karma for buying a new car. UGH. Maybe a piece of advise...direct them to this site when they say they've never heard of rattle stories before...the Ford Pinto was considered to be a good car until the gas tank blowing up killed it for good!

fearturtle44

Captain tc, I would recommend the "master tech" talk to the "master tech" that divadax had from Cincinnati (though his rattle is back). This way your tech knows a little more about what was tried, etc.. Might save him/her many hours of redoing what already doesn't work/help this hatch rattle. Hopefully he/she is going to also look at your hatch rattle once they are done with the roof rattle.

Kevin

atticdog

Well im bringing my tc in now to see the special toyota tech

fearturtle44

Tell the tech you will pay him $100 to 100% fix the sunroof AND hatch rattle. If you car goes a week w/o a rattle, then pay him and the group of us will pitch in to help you out!!!!

Good luck and let us know what he finds. Hopefully you are going to tell him about all the other fixes that did NOT work......

Kevin

atticdog

I went for a ride with a toyota field rep and an engineer
They both heard all the rattles and were confident they would fix them, my car is there overnight and i have an 06 TC rental the funny part is the rental has 1000 miles and rattles almost as bad as mine the rear right side has a almost constant loud rattle

Captain_tC

Wish you best of luck, but dont get your hopes too high. Thats just sad that the 06s rattle too. The tC is gonna get a very bad reputation down the line. I meet with the master tech next week, and I still plan on selling the car even if it is fixed. But at least this way, I can tolerate the car longer until I actually sell it.

divadax

Here's how it went today. I returned my case managers phone call and told her I had an appointment at the dealer (today) to trade in my car. She told me I had another option (the "A" word....arbitration). I told her the dealer has been good so far and I'd rather take that route cuz they told me they'd "work" with me. Here's their "work".

*Trade in my TC with 1600 miles (almost 200 put on by various mechanics during nearly a month in the shop)

*Walk away in a new TC with an additional year in payments of the same amount I'm currently paying OR $52 more per month than my current payment for the same term I have now!

Here's what the deal would cost me:

-$850 give away the auto transmission and go to a manual to cushion my loss.
-$3300 ($55/mo times 60 months in higher payments).
-$1000 down payment on my first TC (nothing down on 2nd)
-$420 the amount I've made in payments so far.
________
<$5570> LOSS

.....or.....I could add another year to my payments and keep the same payment which changes the $3300 in additional monthly payments to $4344 (other losses stay the same). In this equation I'm out $6614 !!!

When I seemed displeased he said "well what did you want?". I said a TC that doesn't rattle like I should have driven out of here in the first place...same payment, no loss etc... He said interest rates have gone up since I bought my car. Here's the kicker. He had me test drive a manual while my car was being appraised. The manual that could have become my new car already had nearly 300 miles on it. IT RATTLED LIKE QUINTUPLET INFANTS IN A RATTLE SNAKE PEN!!!

I made my mind up.... I'm keeping my TC because the techs did eliminate every possible noise from my car except the damn popcorn seed and mine is much quieter than the manual I test drove today. I went back to work and put the weatherstripping back on the side hatch catches and again on the hatch stoppers. Added some more between the hinges. Hollowed out a computer cable, cut it down to about an inch, slit it down the side and put that over the hatch pin (on the bumper that the latch holds on to). Drove home, rattle almost completely gone (95%). I'll live with it until a TSB comes out.