The downside to the tC is that it is a "new" car in most respects (talking purely within the scion breand here).

Sure, it is a "franken-car" of proven toyota components- but will still have plenty of bugs in the first year of production. The xA and xB have had a rather high number of problems, especially considering that they've been in production for several years in Japan. But they are still pretty solid.

Other downsides I have heard of are crummy milage for a car this size, and lack of interioir / trunk space. I haven't sat in one yet (I am 5'11") , but I have a feeling that unless you like driving with your seat reclined "Vato" style- people 6' tall will feel cramped.

 

Dealers don't pay manufacturers for their cars.

 

Well, its 5 inches longer than a celica, so it should do pretty well for those at least up to 6'2" its also an inch taller and the seat is probably in a similar position relative to the celica. I think it will fit Americans quite well, seeing as this is the country it was designed for.

On another point, the invoice price on the toyota is really the dealer cost. The fact that I as a sales person get zero dollars reduced on my purchase price of the vehicle compared to a bit depending on the model I choose in the rest of the toyota family should be an indicator. Its not like companys don't use "loss-leaders" everywhere, every day anyway. Think of the $99 installed brand-name CD player for your car that are ever-present. They may not be losing a lot on them, but they are banking on the customer coming back to get something else later. It usually works.

Scion isn't giving dealers "holdback" dollars based on sales volume. Scion isn't doing "co-op" advertising dollars. Those are both typical car dealer games that every brand including toyota play, so you can pay invoice or even actual dealer cost, but the rebates at the end of the year make a mythical top dealership that sells every car at their actual delivered cost profitable. You really have to look at the price that they would be paying if they did nothing. Everyone knows what happened to oldsmobile. They did something, only about twenty years too late.

Mike

 

I think you're on to them.

 

Since this is directly relevent I will post this in this thead too.

I asked the writer of the USA Today tC review about my concerns in a Q&A online earlier. Here is what was said:

"Atlanta, GA: I enjoyed your review of the Scion tC. I have two questions about the tC. First, How was the head room? I am tall at 6'3" and the tC's headroom is low, even for its class. Did you have any problems? Second, Did you notice any thing that would make you think this car has less-then-Toyota reliability?

James R. Healey: Headroom seemed OK for my 5'11" self. I didn't find I had to angle the backrest a lot to get some noggin space.

Nothing about the test car seemed sub-par -- fit, finish, quality of materials, general smoothness and behavior all seemed fine.

But...spend as much time driving one as you can before you write a check. It's you it has to fit and please. I can give hints, but not guarantees."

 

Thanks BB, & your not just saying that because I'm a Sun Devil Alum right?

after reading the review in the USA today I can see where they are trying to build brand name & that Toyota thinks it is possible that the Scion Tc buyers might just one hop toyota & go straight for a Lexus, I have to admit I looked long & hard at the IS-300 & I'm thinking my next car will be something like a GS300 so I guess they know what they are talking about.

Back to business basics 101:

It is much easier to keep a custtomer then to get a new one.

If toyota gets new customers with scion it may very well help them down the line with toyota & lexus as well.

 

Newbie here, feel free to flame me if this sounds stupid :twisted: , but for me the biggest possible downside is the styling of the thing. It's not exactly subtle. People will take one look and either love it or hate it. I personally think the sheet metal is just perfect, but a lot of my friends don't see it the same. For me the exterior is a pretty big upside, but for a lot of people it will be a huge turn-off. Most of us on this board know a thing or two about nice cars , and so we can't imagine it would ever be a turn-off, but I think it'll be a bit much for the average shmuck just looking for a cheap box in which to sit in traffic. Again, this is only a downside if you want it to be, but it will be a big downside.

Those who worry about the Scion brand name/reputation have a good point, but I personally have a different theory--that the brand is just meant to separate the riskier, niche cars (and their buyers) from the Toyota name, and not confuse or scare any of the millions (literally) of Camry/Tundra/Highlander buyers. If we spend severe $$$ on accessories (I know I will), then great. If we become Toyota/Lexus buyers, that's just splendid. :D If we give the brand good cred and it becomes respected, all the better...but I like to think I'd still buy the thing if they called it a Toyota, and that it's really for the benefit of people like my parents, who are afraid of the xB. They're aiming it AT some people, but just as importantly they're aiming it AWAY from others. Toyota isn't seen as nearly as exciting here in the US as it is elsewhere, and in a country where conformity is quietly celebrated, that conservative reputation is a good thing. Sorry this is devolving into a rant, , its past my bedtime.

 

Well... maybe. But I still think you're one the right track. A lot of people are still taking Scion as just another car. There's certainly much more going on here. Once they're out in all markets and dealers have had a chance to adjust (ie: overcome their inate desire to "try the customer on" on things like trade allowances, etc) Scion's either going to have to come with a minivan and a big SUV or Toyota dealers are going to be pressed to follow the Scion way. Either that or some other company will fill the need and Toyota will be remembered as the company that blazed the trail.

I've sold cars for over 7 years and this new biz model has me truly excited about my job for the first time in a long time. "Old-timers" tell me "it will pass" and, as I listen to them talk, all I see are oil wells. They're done, it's just a matter of time before they become something useful again.

Hey, while I got your attention, post your car on my site! It's free and (I think) better than the free image sites I see so many people using here.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!! GO DEVILS!!!

 

Well, I think you personally brought up a great point. No flaming from me, everything seems to be valid...if not sad because Toyota is not as "family" oriented in other parts of the world. Maybe we'll get a sports car "toyota" devision, like Scion is a "youth" oriented... 330 HP, RWD, 50/50 Weight Distribution, 2200 lbs... :twisted:

 

Well, I think you personally brought up a great point. No flaming from me, everything seems to be valid...if not sad because Toyota is not as "family" oriented in other parts of the world. Maybe we'll get a sports car "toyota" devision, like Scion is a "youth" oriented... 330 HP, RWD, 50/50 Weight Distribution, 2200 lbs... :twisted:

 

I'm 6'1 and my tC fits me better than any other car I've driven in. I just picked mine up yesterday. I didn't even have to wait. They had a new one in and I just happened upon it at the same time. My only problem was the value I got on my trade in, but that's more because of my bad negotiating skills than anything else. This car feels very high quality. I'd compare the interior styling to some mercedes I've been in or the mini cooper. That's just me though.

I would totally recommend this car to anyone thinking about getting it, as long as it fits you comfortably.

 

for all of yall who feel the tC isint priced extremely low...check out its competition. yes the spec v is cheap base...but that is base. slap on a sound system and a sun roof and add 1,500...not to mention its hard to get a new model at msrp since nissan has them in limited production ( i know, i tried). the ralliart...its a good buy, runs wit the spec, but some people have issues wit mitsubishi (its about the same price). the tibby...hyundai just dropped the price to compete with the tC....it slightly faster...but its got two extra cylinders, and you hafta pay for all your creature comforts. lets not even look at the civic si, or the rsx base....

price wise the tC is an amazing deal. you get alot of creature comforts for a set price...16,500 with a mt....NO other car you can get for 16,5 will be as nice as the tC unless you get crazy rebates....thats right....a comprably loaded 3 is gonna run you 18+....

i admitt the tC isisnt as fast as the wrx or the srt4. but the car isint about only speed...its about the total package. is the srt4 as nice as the tC? NO!!...not in my opinion. thats where dodge saved their money. to end my rant...the tC, is a good buy...it does what toyota meant it to do...get new customers...

peace

 

Even if people would buy the tC for $30k it is NOT worth that much. $17k sound like a good price for this car and it isn't cheap.

 

oh, thats funny my dealer had asked me if i wanted to upgrade to leather for 1300 more

___________

" LIFES A _____, GET OVER IT! "

 

the catch -
not all that great paint (it scratches way too easily and i have some orange peal)
the other catch, i guess could be the tranny for 5 speed. but thats personal preference, 1st gear is so short and 5th still allows for high rpms, but thats the way the car is made.
you get what you pay for, and i think i got a great deal

 

Leather is a dealer option at some (not all) dealerships. It is not a scion product.

Sort of like window tinting...

 

tC is the best bang-for-the-buck car out there. Price compared to options, you can't beat it.

I have almost 17K miles on mine (last 5K with TRD Springs, Struts, Rear Sway) and I bought it in Aug 04. I drive it ALOT. My project miata is on hold with a turbo kit sitting on the shelf because I'd rather drive the tC. With the trd stuff it handles like a dream. With tons of go-fast-bits comming out (sans the supercharger, DAMN YOU TRD!!!) there is alot of customization available.

The styling is nice and understated. No weird s**t hanging off and clean lines. Personally I would have them make it a rwd but you can't have it all. The OEM wheels cost $500 a piece to replace because they aren't made by the same generic manufacturer that makes 75% of the OEM wheels out there. I know how much the wheels are because some d**k ran into me two weeks ago and the wheel needs replacing.

Go for what you like. I love driving and have 3 cars, the tC is my fav. When it warms up outside you'll see my tC at Summit Point carving corners and possibly with a turbo. pssssst!!! I have put my share of cars to shame off of the red light but let it be known, this is not the fastest car on the road, but pretty darn quick. A few more hp out of the 2.4 would be nice.

One last thing, I am 6ft 1in and 220 lbs. The car fits like a glove. Tons of room and the bolstering is just right. I bought mine with no options. 16,465 plus the floormats, wish I hadn't gotten the mats, they suck. Already warrentee replaced one set and on my way to another.

 

thats a sweet pic! I saved it. :D

 

The main difference is the price.
Lexus, while fine cars, are in my opinion overpriced. Although, I agree you can't compare a tC to a Lexus.

 

Thanks, I took it the day after I bought it. Gettysburg, PA.