Although Vtec does pull harder when lift is engaged than vvtl-i. But most of the people I know that use forced induction tend to think Valve lift is pointless cuz it seems to cause a lot of problems with higher Psi.

 

No--wrong again because you speak to other people worldwide on a VTECH...you can't do that with a VVTI, sorry.

"so roll the eyes"--what are you going to do next man, "show me the hand because the face don't understand"?

 

Im pushing 12lbs on a built block (b16a2) and vtec is my friend... can you explain why FI people are running b20 vtec hybrids over b20 blocks with stock b20 head? not saying either is better. Do you run FI yourself? or this is a my friend said this thing?

 

so what you are really saying is that you have never even seen an S2000?? you tell me for one second that you honestly believe that a different cam lobe doesn't cause a huge surge of power at 4750rpm... the engine runs like a Civic until then, it gets over 30mpg on the highway... but after you get rolling and engine is headed towards is approx 9000 red line... it screams like a CBR...

VTEC is a "best of both worlds" scenario, it's weakness comes in that it is tuned to two specific driving styles / techniques... low is quiet and conservative... the other is the "let her rip" end of the spectrum... and it absolutely works...

now VVT is what Toyota and BMW (they call it VANOS) have been using... it is basically working by advancing the camshafts opening point to an earlier time in the cycle... so when the air is moving slower (2000rpm) it is opening at the most opportune time, and when the engine is screaming (5000rpm) it is again opening slightly sooner, but it is the most opportune time... Porsches have done this since the 70s... the new BMWs using a combination of both, they ride on one cam, but they change the actual lift and timing of that lift over the rull rev range - the latest 7series don't have a throttle plate, they actually control the engines rpm by adjusting the valves... now THAT is trick...

 

all those "different technologies" u guys have listed all do the exact same thing...they change valve lift.....some do it progressivley...some kick in....either way they change valve lift....and or valve timing

 

children children..... we come here to these forums to express our love to this new breed of toyotas called Scion. And here I see that our ignorance just comes afloat faster than cork would..... If you like VTEC then like VTEC... if you like VVTI then like VVTI... but noooo... cant do that right? must try to put down the beloved H, you know... the way some of you sound... (or read in this case) just tells me that your asses have been smoked a bit too much by the beloved lawnmower engine called Honda.... and that my friend must sting... oh well... or if that is not the case... then there is something else... dont know... but sounds either like envy or like I stated at the begining... ignorance... dont dog the other brand... there is no need to... want to prove it? then get your vvti and build it up.. and go smoke some vtec asses (that is if you can...) post some facts... some proof that you did... then claim your respect.... but then again... that my friends... is just my humble opinion...

as usuall.... with respect

The Beast

 

"just tells me that your asses have been smoked a bit too much by the beloved lawnmower engine called Honda"
so i suppose i cant beat a civic with a sohc d16 just cause it has vtec? LOL
ive absoulutely smoked many honda cars with d series motor.....even one that was semi built...he put a whole 122whp down on dyno.....which is really good if u go to http://www.d-series.org and read.....but as for beating anything with a b16 or bigger...not gonna happen unless the driver has never had lessons from a professional....which is 99% of the people on the road....most people dont even shift right....
power to weight....if u got the cash u can build the motor up to make just about any amount of power u want....this game of speed comes down to money...not brand....
and most people who make big power in honda's drop the vtec all together and go to another valve train setup all together.....vtec vvti etc etc is for FUEL ECOMONY....and in my 2k civic si with b18c with b16head the vtec killer cams i tried made another 13hp and 8ft lbs of torque over jun stage3....nuff said...go read
fyi..im building a b18b motor up for boost...no vtec....copying a setup that made over 400whp with garret T04S (t4/60-1) with .84 a/r turbine....once again...no vtec....

 

this is incorrect...

VTEC changes the point where the valve begins to open and how much lift the valve will receive - so at a specific rpm the engine jumps to a totally different cam lobe and performance is completely different...

VVT changes the point where the valve begins to open, but the lift remains the same... the difference is that over the rpm range the valves open sooner as the revs climb...

these provide two very different engines... I prefer the latter, because the VTEC requires the driver to maintain the upper rpm to get a sporting engine, whereas the VVT allows for a smoother delivery of power.

 

someone needs a shovel...its getting pertty deep

 

ok before everyone kepps making fools of themselves take it from someone who has owned and studied toyotas and hondas'

vvti- variable intake cam timing, It does not effect lift and is not able to allow an engine to make much more power,butis quite good for driveability and torque.
vvtl-i- variable intake cam timming as well as variable lift, this system both cahnges intake cam timing and has to seperate cam profiles which change over a a set rpm.
vtec-varable lift, this also changes cam profile at a set rpm when certain conditions are met. like having a racing and a regular cam in 1 car. basically the best of diveability and power.
i-vtec- vtec with variable cam timing as well. basically the same thing as vvtl-i except the exahust cam is variable as well.

so to sum it up
i-vtec is slightly better than vvtl-i which is better than just vtec and they are all bettec than vvti which is just a basic system.

 

God.... this thread reminds me of when Toyota first introduced vvt-i...

I am sure there are people in Honda's camp arguing why vtec is better...

But, when Toyota first introdueced vvt-i most of car mags scored it higher than then vtec (now ivtec...). In fact, I can't remember any mags giving Honda a better score...

But, than again, who cares? I personally think vtec is an excellent engine. It bothered the hell out of me though... having to keep the car reved up all the time...

But, just like the our beloved Xb, newer Honda's behave differently. My Civic Si (EP) didn't behave anyting like 90's HOnda....

 

I won't say one is better than the other... I mean in one camp you have VTEC which has the benefit of two engines in one, it is almost like hitting a "mode" button...

and then there is VVT in the other corner... no "on the cam" boost, but awesome power throughout the driveable range... BMW believes in that setup, Toyota has their flavor... great...

better?? who knows... but the S2000 screams when you hit about 4750... I always joke my friend about his CBR2000... I feel like I am driving a stolen car when I "race" his car... but it is fun... Toyota can't lay this claim... they don't contend for that $30k racing dollar... that's okay... they did (supra) and I am sure they will again...

 

That statement is a joke. I seriously smiled after reading it.

Wrong! I own a Integra manual and the valves are recommended adjustment every 60k miles.

I don't know what you are referring to, but I never had any problems with my motor in the 25k I drove it.

I can tell you've been in a Honda with sohc vtec and NEVER dohc vtec. When my civic hatch (GSR motor) hit 4,600 vtec kicked in. Not only could you hear when it came on, but you also felt the power as it pulled all the way up to 8,000

I love DOHC vtec motors (preferbly b18's). The power is unbeliveable for a 4 cylinder.

 

the sooner you realize that 1% or less of the people that browse/post on these boards have any technical automotive knowledge the better off you'll be. Thats why the "Power Hungry" section is 99% discussion and hardly any content. Your surrounded by people arguing over how best to tune a 108hp 1.5L engine that was built for fuel economy.

I built and drove a 99' Integra GSR with a Jackson Racing supercharger running 9psi with only an AFC and a dyno tune and never had any trouble up until 60k miles when I ended up selling the car. The original V-Tec system was visionary and every other auto maker has followed in Honda's footsteps, not the other way around.

 

The VVT-i is similar to Honda's VTEC technology, but taken a step further. Not only is the engine capable of enhancing valve lift, but it is also capable of optimizing cam timing (variable cam timing), which in turn translates to optimal low-end and top-end performance.

At low rpms, cam timing is advanced, while at high rpms, it is retarded. So all you Honda fools out there sporting DOHC VTEC power should be afraid, because the VVT-i technology is no joke. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

sorry, you got it backwards, to get more top end the cam lobes timing is advanced, this is basic engine design... it is a matter of air flow resistance, you need the peak opening to be sooner in the stroke so that at peak negative pressure the most air can flow...

 

I was boosted on my VTEC motor before my scion too. VTEC is great for moderate boost. VTEC adjustments allow you to smoothe out the torque curve for a more predictable setup. High psi/hp situations though... Most switch to VTEC eliminator cams to rid themselves of VTEC. Also, whoever said that VTEC "breaks" at 15k miles is an idiot. My Civic had 44k miles on it, half of that being boosted. I raced it at the track EVERY week with a stock motor, and it never "broke" on me. I sold the car with working VTEC as well. Trust me, on a VTEC car, you'll know if it's not working right. The low cams just suck on the top end.

 

FYI, there are also different types of i-VTEC. It works differently in the K20A2/K20A/K20Z (RSX Type S and R) than it does in the K20A3/K24's (EP3 Civic Si, Element, etc.).

By the way, Valvetronic owns all.

 

i don't know about that. not many people out there can say they ran 14:1 compression on a B18c motor reliably...i can. last dyno before i sold it was 246whp with 165torque Normally Aspirated

btw...i've really laughed reading this thread.

fyi...its variable Valve Timing w/ Electronic lift Control.

 

you know... this is the second topic i've found bashing on other vehicles and glorifying scions... i thought there was another forum for this kind of sh*t. lets get some things straight first... when was vvt-i or vvtl-i first out on a toyota vehicle? when was the vtec or i-vtec first out on a honda vehicle? 1.5L vvt-i=103hp? 1.6L vtec=160hp? hmm... vvt-i=new technology? vtec=old technology? if honda has been able to produce such highly coveted motors using old technology... why is toyota isn't able to do the same with new technology? just my $0.02