You are s smart one, I see. Look at Caddilac resale values over the last 3 years, and see what happens when GM doesn't employ heavy handed incentives, produces a quality product, and updates their platforms. If the Cobalt meets these requirements- there won;t be a problem.

I can't predict resale value- but then again neither can you my friend.

 

I still don't know why you would even consider a Chevy over a Toyota,,,,, or even compare the two. In 2 years, the Chevy will be just another bucket of bolts with a cheap interior that is falling apart. The Scion will be a solid car for years to come.

Just my 2 cents

 

THANK YOU! finally someone points out the fact that the Cobalt is essentially the same car underneath as the ION [delta platform or was it the epsilon platform?]. The Cobalt SS is also essentially the Redline. If you read any of the reviews of the Redline, it got rather poor ratings for its low build quality and overall not-so-well execution. Besides a nicer interior/exterior, I don't have much faith that things will be much different for the Cobalt SS. I'm getting pretty sick of all these domestic cars that claim to finally be 'world-class' and a drastic departure from business as usual. And sometimes, they get high ratings, as with the Focus, Contour, Intrigue, Aurora, but inevitably, the reliable is ____- poor, recalls are a daily occurence, residual value is down the drain [partially due to the poor reliablity, partially due to the many many incentives heaped on the car to get them pushed off lots, partially due to the large amount of these things that end up in rental fleets, etc] and to their often times unacceptably horrendous safety ratings [go to IIHS.org and look up the crash test for Chevy Venture, the Pontiac Grand Am, the Dodge Neon or any other Domestic, before you attempt to argue with me on this]. I used to be the biggest domestic car fan, Back in 94 and 95, I was crazy about the Sunfire, I had faith in GM, but look at their products now, try doing some research and then make your assumptions. And with the domestic car companies, 9 times out of 10, yes, you can predict resale value.

 

No offense. I'm not hating on tC owners. I was just incredibly, tragically disappointed when I saw the tC. I don't understand why Toyota would come up with this edgy new brand and two radically designed cars to seperate Scions image from plain vanilla Toyota and then go and make their SPORTS car look like every other compact coupe. There's very little original or daring styling on it at all and it's woefully overweight. I guess I was expecting more. Much more. I figured the Scion sports car would be radical looking, lightweight and dynamic. I never imagined they'd make it look so much like a generic Toyota. Has Scion lost its ***** already???

I am impressed with the value the tC represents and I have no doubt it's a solid car with good performance. The problem for me is that it inspires no passion in me. I can see how someone would really like their tC, but how do you get genuinely excited about something so incredibly ordinary? No passion in the design. No sex in the lines. It's rated G and about as interesting as a rated G movie to me. If there is one kind of car that should inspire passion, it's a sports car.

The tC doesn't really say "sports car" to me.

It says "This is what the Paseo would look like today if Toyota never stopped producing it"

As for the Saturn, I like the Honda engine. The rest of it is garbage like nearly everything else GM builds, I'm sure. I wouldn't give it a second look based on GM's rep for shoddy workmanship alone actually.

 

if your definition of a sports car is a car with 2 doors then i see what your saying... but who said toyota was making a scion sports car when they developed the tC? i dont recall seeing that anywhere near the title of the tC, it seems to me that toyota made their scion hatchback coupe... buuuuut i deff agree with ur view on the GM up and comings, last car was a GM and im never lookn back

 

That what i said....then all the problems....

 

actually the honda motor is only on the redline vue not redline ion. that has and ecotec engine.

 

" can see how someone would really like their tC, but how do you get genuinely excited about something so incredibly ordinary? No passion in the design. No sex in the lines. It's rated G and about as interesting as a rated G movie to me. If there is one kind of car that should inspire passion, it's a sports car. "


First thing my GF said when she saw my IIP TC on the lot was, "thats a SEXY car....HOT!" I think the design is incredible.

 

The tC is not a Scion "sports car". Sports cars are Honda S2000s, Lotus Elises, Nissan 350Zs, Chevy Corvettes, Ferrari Enzos, and Porsche 911s.

The tC is a replacement for the Celica, which is a sports compact/sporty car. The sports compact group includes: Acura Integras/RSXs, Toyota Celicas, Chevy Cobalt coupes, Mazda 3s', Honda Civic Coupe EX, Corolla/Matrix XRS.

Scions already have the shockly different xB, and the cute xA. I guess they wanted a car for performance tuners. You want loud expressions? Get a box. You want something to boost/tune, the tC is it. People (those that don't have Scions yet)complain about Scions being too radical with their cars and the lack of HP. So they put out the tC to go against the sports compact market. This makes sense to me.

 

I rented a Cavalier from Budget last week to drive from OC to LAX. Yes, it was utter garbage. On the freeway it felt like I was driving over patches of ice while being buffetted by a 60 mph cross-wind, but the road was dry and it wasn't windy at all that day. That's a scary car.

 

cavs and sunfires stock handling is absolutely scary. trust me i own one. the amount of body roll is trully frieghtening at any speed high than 25mph. but with tuning it can handle very very good.



hyndais in general are ranked by jd power and assoc #3 initial quality. that graph shows the overall problems of hyndais for the 2004 model year. but would be slightly scewed due to the amount of hyndais sold vs others.

also the tiburon is not the same as other hyndais. it is much higher quality inside and out. it has a long rally race heritage and has proven its power on the rally circuit finishing first many times. the tiburon is a fabulous car. msrp is 18 on a brand new gtv6 but factory offers 2000 off plus dealer specials. so you can actually get into a tib for under 16. resale value of a 03 with 15k miles is about 15 thousand dollars. which seems like a large depreciation from msrp, but considering you actually paid very near that because of incentives it hasnt depreciated much at all. the performance is better- not sure where the pseron got the info abotu 7.9 0-60 because that is way off. must have been looking at the delta 4 cyl tib. the gt v6 i believe runs 6.9-7.2 0-60 and 15.1 real world times. ( i have seen stock gtv6 run this at the track)

in my book the tibby and the tC are very close. just depends on your fancy, race heritage vs luxury "feel" interior on the tib is very good. not quite tC tho.

as said before the 2.7l v6 responds tremendously to mods. and you can get the alpine supercharger and intercooler system for 2500k and they offer 3 year warranties and longer on your engine. talk of them becoming licensed by hyndais has been rumored for awhile, who knows if it will ever happen.

interior= tC
exterior= pretty even to me
performance= tiburon
resale=tC
handling= tiburon
potential= tiburon has TONS many with just bolt ons and supercahrger in low 14 high 13 range. tC- well have to wait and see. hopefully absolutely awesome!

everyone likes different things. i love both cars alot. and there really isnt anything bad to say about either. only thing people can say about the tib is that its "hyndai" but liek said before they were only really bad with mitsu stuff pre 02. they still have a LONG way to go but are rapidly coming up. and the tib is a far better car than any other hyndai, so the cahrt is misleading when speakign about the tib because to me, i dont consider it the same car as any other hyndai.


but like i said before. everyoen got there oppinions and preferences and that is mine.

 

2200 thanx for that nice post about tibs. : )

its all pretty damn accurate too. a few things WILl fall under personal opinions like looks and interior. I like the tibs looks slightly better.

Btw here is why the tib is an amazing vehicle vs other Hyundai's. Hyundai didnt develop it entirely on its own.

SUspension: co designed with porsche of Germany

Exterior design.: pirafinili or whoever the ferrari designer is didnt do it all, he was consulted on it. : )

w00t

but tc does look sharp as well. I'd def take a tc if the tib wasn't around.

 

In terms of performance the tC is hard to beat. Any car that beats it easily is in the $20K+ range and either blown or V6'd, and that isn't apples to apples (until you put the TRD S/C on). I think the best combo of fastest/cheapest is a 1.8T GTI but by the time you put on the GTI what comes standard on the tC the prices are still roughly the same, and per the JD Power post on the previous page its obvious which one wins. For the money, the standard options and the power that you get out of the tC is unbeatable for anything under $17K.

Thank you to whoever posted the JD Power charts on the previous page by the way, for some reason I'm usually the first person to do this (on vwvortex, on shacknews, etc) and it has a bad habit of shutting down fanboys (particular the VW owners or the domestic crowd).

As for styling, if an A/B owner doesn't like the tC's style then that is just plain jealousy. The A is just a skinny Matrix made for little people to drive around in Japan, the B is hardly better. Read Car&Driver's article about the tC, the A/B are straight ports of cars made for the domestic Japanese market and the tC comes from a European platform (its no wonder that the first two look like they can hardly fit an American adult). They are only original to the US, and even then they aren't that impressive (the B has good room for 4 for its price but it looks like the cousin of a VW bus).

 

The tC is a great value! When compared with the base RSX, Mazda 6(4 cyl), Toyota Solara(4cyl), you cannot go wrong with the price/standard features!(These are some of the cars I was looking at). One thing I don't like about the tC's competitors(in it's price range) is that it's almost all sedans.

As for the tC's exterior, I think it looks great... I know it's nothing like the xA and xB in the unique-department, but I honestly think it looks great! Standard 17 inch rims is cool! The Celica might have an original looking exterior, but honestly, I do NOT see myself driving a car that looks like that! I really don't care for how the front end looks at all.

I think the tC's interior is awesome! It's unique. Magazines refer to it as a Japanese Paper- texture, and I think it's cool. The seats are nice, the legroom in both the front and back seats are outstanding! The trunk is small, but I don't buy a car just to put a boom box in it... My only complaint is the horn... I tend to bump the horn once in a while when the steering wheel is spinning.

I was looking into an RSX(base), and I test drove one... I'm happy I went to the Scion dealership before I made an agreement with Acura. I would say they are similar, but whereas the RSX gets the bump up top, the tC has a great powerband overall! To get a base RSX with all the accessories I wanted(fog lights, spoiler, gfx, etc.), it would have costed alot more! I'm happy.

I just don't think any car's in the same price range are as good as a tC!

I owned a 95 v6 3.4 Firebird, and let me tell you how unhappy I was with all the different problems. And it was so slow!

I'm not a big fan of GM anymore. The Colorodo's with the inline 5's are pretty cool tho... but I wouldn't get another GM car after owning one already.