i definately agree with that...i just like a really gated shifter that doesnt have too much play...i like the tC's shifter, but i just think it should be a little bit more precise

 

Funny, I never notice these things. Even when switching from a GSR to a tC, I still don't think about the shifter difference. I just do what needs to be done to make my car move. But yeah I agree with most that the tC's shifter is weird, not as crisp as the GSR but gets in the right gear without having to slam it. But i unconsciously slam it anyways. Oh and I thought average idle speed for compacts is around 700-850 RPM.

 

Raising the idle up won't make you a better driver. Just learn how to drive.

 

ATTENTION: PLEASE READ MY POSTS BEFORE OFFERING UP YOUR ADVICE.

fyi. i don't have a problem DRIVING. I have a problem SHIFTING/MATCHING REVS. And ONLY in the tc. i hop in my buddies evo, other buddies sti or bro's rolla, and shift like butter.

fyi. I've been driving stick for longer than many of you have had your licenses. rofl.... but thanks for assuming i don't know how to... :D

so, i guess you have to post vids of yourself auto-xing before anyone gives you any credit for being able to drive.

how bout this-i've had my tc since nov 04, driven it very hard, beat a GSR hatch, audi A6, teggies and plenty more...i haven't wrecked it (unlike a very high percentage of supposedly "good drivers" and "tuners").

i also worked at a service station for 2 years where one of my primary jobs was to drive cars into the bays and around the block for road tests (including just about every make manual transmission there is).

so next time, instead of just typing to hear the sound of your own voice, READ my posts, and respond accordingly.

as for "average idle speed for compacts"..that is totally irrelavant. Its not like, if your car is a 4 cyl sport compact there is a certain range it has to idle at. You can set the idle basically wherever you want at the factory.

sure, maybe a median range for similar cars would be 700-850, that doesn't mean thats where the tc SHOULD idle.

many people agree, its easier to shift/match revs after a cold start up while its idling high. this is because you have to apply less throttle to match rev to wheel speed. with the dbw being so sensitive/tricky, i find its easier to mash the pedal and chirp/peel out than it is to ease into 1st. ie. its sometimes difficult to hold a constant rev @ 1000rpms.

go try it before you talk again. even use your hand to depress the pedal. its nearly impossible to hold a CONSTANT rev.

the purpose of this thread is to improve the driving experience for those who aren't satisfied; if you ARE satisfied and have nothing constructive to offer and just want to flame me (which is funny, because looking at ages, i've been driving [prob driving stick too] longer than any of the members who flamed me)...

 

Sorry, but if you need to have a higher idle to shift this car, it is simply driving habits, period. Every car is different, and you need to adjust. I too have driven manuals my whole life (from my first dirt bike at 7 to learning to drive in dads old 3/4 ton chevy to most cars I have owned) and had no more trouble in this car than any other I have owned or driven, including my buddies BMW. If you are having abnormal issues, then maybe something is wrong with your tranny.

You dont raise idle on a car to make it shift easier.

I can tell you from all of my experience both driving, working on them myself or at my dads shop, etc that most cars idle somewhere in the range of 600 - 800 rpm. Over 1k is most of the time cold idle. Obviously there are some high revving cars that idle higher, but that is pretty close to the norm. The car should idle just above the point that it gets rough. Any higher and you are wasting fuel and engine life. The simple solution to your problem is not to try taking off from idle. You should already be in the throttle as you let off, so what would raising the idle speed do for that? And on shifts, you dont hit idle, or even close, between shifts, so again it would not help unless you had it idling at 1500 rpm You dont need to rev match on up shifts unless you are shifting VERY slowly. On downshifts, if you shift at the right points under normal driving you also dont need to rev match. Under very hard driving, you will match, but that isnt overly hard on the tC either. The pedal placement is a little funky for heel-toe, but it is still do-able if you are really driving to the point you need to do it.

This is not meant to flame, but to inform.

 

I also respect your opinion.. but would like to know how you know how many standards I have owned? I learned to drive in one at 9 and have owned all standards besides 3 cars, one of which is my fiances car so I rarely drive it.

If they reprogrammed the ECU, it would still hold rpm between shifts. A flywheel stores kinetic energy, that is its purpose. The tC has a slightly heavy one in most peoples opinion. And people who have been building cars thier entire lives switched to a lighter flywheel and reported immediately that they could no longer notice the "delay"

I am not saying that the delay is not there, but a huge part is the rotating mass, which no amount of reprogramming can change. I am not the biggest fan of DBW either, but I think that people blame too many other issues on it simply because they know it is there.

 

wow. that has absolutely nothing to do with me or my issue at all does it? Thanks for the info though.

ECU, not tranny.

If it idles too low you do.

So what does that tell us if quite a few people agree that the tc shifts/starts out in 1st better after a cold start? yes, thats right, that the car idles a couple hundred rpms too low. if the clutch engaged at 900, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Unfortunately , my clutch doesn't engage till quite a bit higher most times.

i'd sacrifice a little fuel and engine life (i'm not going to own the car in 5 years anyway) to have a cleaner start in 1st.

i've been trying for the last 2+ years. sometimes i can without even thinking about it. sometimes i start off like a 16 year old girl learning to drive stick (exaggerating really, but i still bunnyhop occasionally slightly). My conclusion is, "its just easier to launch it than it is to feather it. Requires much less effort. Just a combo of the dead spot on the pedal play, the dbw delay, and heck maybe even the flyhweel. but its there.

Thats the only thing you've said that i totally agree with.
Thanks for Trying. I didn't take it as a flame at all.

And in your other posts i assume you were asking how many cable throttle cars i've owned. THe answer: 2. and only 1 was a manual (92 mazda protege, taught myself stick on it) Better question: how many cable throttle cars have I DRIVEN?..Manuals... Dozens. Foxbody, a cable throttle-converted IS300 (buddy's) turbo (have vids of it, just not uploaded, don't know how and have 56k) quite a few civics/tegs, dsms, one badass Evo 8, Jeep, Ford truck, shall i continue? Throttle response on ALL of them was better than the tc. WHEN you step on the gas, throttle opens....not AFTER.

 

Is it even possible to raise the idle? My poly motor mounts make the car shake like crazy right now, I'd love to get the idle up to around 900-1000 rpm to offset that.

 

This thread is going nowhere. If you think raising the idle will make you shift better then do it! But please don't say the TC needs to idle higher. That sounds very noob. You should address your idling problem with Toyota and see what they think about it.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but there IS an idle screw that you can adjust. I'm not saying that I recommend it, but it is there.

 

It has to be there. I believe most, if not all cars, have an idle adjustment.

 

i guarantee if it idled just a couple hundred rpms higher, it would drastically help to eliminate the throttle delay. Maybe it IS actually due to the heavy flywheel, in which case, raising the idle would lessed the gap in flywheel rpms between baseline and friction point.

so all around, yes, a higher idle would help and would not hurt anything.

where is this "idle adjustment 'screw'" exactly?

 

that I dont know. i'm sure its in the fiche:

https://www.scionlife.com/tech/parts/?group=tc05_bg1

check it out and let us know! Hope it goes well for ya!!!

 

maybe if the friction point were a bit lower than 1500rpms, the low idle would be less of an issue. But when you idle at 700, and you can even engage the clutch until approx 1500, thats a lot of throttle to give and rev matching before you can release the clutch.

If the friction point were around 1200, it would be a little less of a PITA to bring revs up to match.

Also, anyone else notice, you feel the friction point and start to let the clutch out, then the rpms start to drop and you have to clutch back in and let the rpms drop before you actually engage the clutch? its weird.

 

My point is that you are ALREADY pressing the gas as you begin letting off the clutch, so higher idle speed would have no effect unless you are letting off the clutch at idle. If you are doing that, you are driving it incorrectly. For example, if you want to start at a higher rpm.. why not just press the pedal.

The idle is where it should be on the car.. it only effects anything when the car is idling. The reason some say it is easier to take off on high idle is obviously because they are giving it too little gas. I still dont see why that is an issue. If you want it to start off at 1200 rpm.. then simply press the gas pedal a little before letting off the clutch.. which is how you are supposed to drive one. Idle is meant for nothing but to keep the engine running when you let off the gas. And again, I have rarely seen a car, especially a 4 banger, that idles any higher than the tC.

 

Maybe this is the clarification point....

Everyone having issues is pressing the gas BEFORE you start letting off the clutch.. right? If not, that is how you should be doing it. RPMs come up right before the clutch starts to engage. And on shifts, you are so far above idle that it should never drop to even 1k (if that were the idle speed) between shifts. Just to clarify.. and maybe help a few.

 

btw, it is possible to launch at idle. I don't mean a no-gas start, I'm talking a normal launch.

I've only done it a FEW times in the entire time I've owned this car, but the few times I've done it it was unintentional and quite frankly, pure bliss.

What happens is that you hit some sort of sweet spot, and are able to nearly instantly engage the clutch, no jerk, nothing. It's like you just hit the pedal and take off, not even an audible slip... and the slip feels like a second or less. It's incredible, its like you just think about going, and somehow the car is already halfway through the intersection. No engine rev, no tire squeal, just quiet, and you're gone. Bliss, I have no other word for it.

I wish I had more experiences like that, but so far, I have NEVER been able to replicate it. Haven't had the experience in months

 

Oh, it is definitely possible. And you can hit that sweet spot again and again if you try it and find it. But normally the rpm should raise right before the clutch starts to engage. It should raise to a point at which you have enough power to take off smoothly and steadilly, and you should attempt to hold that same rpm as the clutch engages. If you do that right, then it will be a perfect, smooth takeoff. After time, you dont even think about it when you do it. It sounds like some people may be having a harder time because they always try to begin engaging the clutch at idle, then drop rpm, then raise it quickly with the throttle, making it jerky.

 

Now.. at one time I could start off without ever hitting the gas at all in my saturn..... but that was because the idle air control was screwed and it idled at 1100 - 1700 rpm Was nice in traffic though.. I could put it in second, and never touch the gas and creep along But, I fixed it, so idle is normal again now (which, by the way is 800 rpm). It was kinda funny though while it lasted!

 

[b]YES!!!!!!!!!![/b]

not to be rude, but jesus christ. do you think you're the only one who knows how to drive stick? as i said about 10 million times already, i've been driving various stick cars for the last 8 or so years. TC is the ONLY car i've ever had this issue with. Also as i've said, its a combination of factors. Not JUST the low/weak idle. All i'm saying is that its quite obvious (due to the fact that it is undeniably easier to start off in 1st after a cold start on high idle) that a bit juicier idle wouldn't be a bad thing.

Do you like playing devil's advocate, or does it just come naturally??