adrianedwards

I have just bought a new 2010 tC and I want to make a few changes to improve the handling without sacrificing ride quality.
I can't afford to do all of the changes that are offered at the dealer so I would appreciate any help on which are the most cost effective suspension changes that owner have found.

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rosedaleny806

first things first, dont buy parts from the dealers. ur going to be paying an arm and a leg for them. theres numerous threads on the subject but u would need to SEARCH for them

TRD struts & TRD/ H&R springs (not aggresive, but IMO the best drop for performance. springs wise"
Rear Sway bar. (TRD, H&R, Hotchkis)

with those 2 alone ud feel a significant difference

GammaTNT

iTrader: (8)

Trd springs it lower the car about 1.5 inch
pro: improve handling, cost about $100 for used and $160 new.
you can keep your stock struts.
con: it does NOT have "slam to the ground" look.

Progress rear sway bar
Pro:improve handling, cost $160 new. very easy to install.
con: none.

I have them on my tc, and i would say the spring makes the most difference.
Don't buy part from the dealer!
I would suggest www.trdsparks.com for you parts.
or look up the classifieds on this message board.

adrianedwards

Thanks for the help.

GQQSE13

depending on what you want to end up doing look or ask around and people can give you good vendors on here to go through; if you end up doing trd parts trdsparks.com usually has lowest price around; and also check w/ dealership if you end up having a shop install it, because i found out at my local dealership if you buy trd aftermarket parts the labor is only like 20$/hour (was surprised by that)

ack154

iTrader: (7)

Must Read: https://www.scionlife.com/forums/scion-tc-1g-suspension-handling-1615/suspension-faq-read-first-47974/

adrianedwards

Thanks for the help.

Un4Scene

Congratulations on the new car! I agree with the others, the rear sway bar would be the first thing to upgrade. The springs would also be an excellent choice unless you are planning on having some more money to put into it in the future. If you're planning on getting coilovers in the future, then the springs would be a complete waste. I've heard that the Tanabe coilovers ride very nicely and also handle extremely well, and they are on the cheaper end of the coilover market.
If you decide to wait and get the coilovers then you could also get a front strut tower brace from just about every manufacturer out there, or a good rear brace by Ingalls, both of which are fairly cheap.

Tanabe Sustec Pro: http://www.tanabe-usa.com/s0c.asp?id=6
Ingalls rear brace: http://www.ingallseng.com/93304-rear...-scion-tc.html

Good luck with the build!

engifineer

There is no such thing as improving handling without sacrificing ride quality, regardless of what people tell you or want to believe. You can minimize the effect on ride quality, but there will be some level of sacrifice. Read here for more info

http://www.yoursciontc.com/forums/in...howtopic=26448

and to show why 90% of the suspension parts on the aftermarket are 100% for show and totally opposite of what is good for handling. Most people sacrifice handling to slam the car and "keep a good ride"... which is basically resigning your car to being a show queen, which isnt what you are asking for.

A few points regarding some recommendations here and some of my own recommendations.

- DONT run just the hotchkis rear sway. Terrible idea, especially on the street. They sell them as a pair for a reason.. and that is explained in the thread I linked above.

Going by the information in the thread I posted, a chart of the spring rates and drops for various springs (same forum as the link I posted) and personal experience on the street and autoxing this car...

TRD Springs with TRD or progress rear bar is probably the best bang for your buck and the best compromise between ride and handling IMO. Autoxed that setup for 2 years and was happy with it. You can run stock struts just fine on TRD.. I did from 15,000 miles until somewhere shy of 70,000 miles when I changed to coilovers.

Some are all pumped that the progress bars are solid and come with endlinks. Personally I dont see why that is a big deal. The hollow TRD bar is plenty strong (never heard of one breaking so far) as are the stock endlinks. There is also plenty of clearance so different length endlinks are not needed with it. The fact that progress bar is solid basically just makes it heavier in this application (The reason companies make hollow bars ;) ). Good product, just not necesarrilly for those reasons.

The next steup up IMO is to go with Tein SS-P's. Only do this if you really need the adjustability (aka corner balancing and tuning the dampers) and are prepared for a MUCH harsher ride on the street. The spring rates are about double that of the TRDs. I am running those currently and did all this season in autox. Good once you get it set up correctly. But, if I werent autoxing more seriously, I would still be running TRD springs and keep the nicer ride on the street

I will be moving to the hotchkis sways (yes, I have 3 full suspensions for my tC currently... that is what happens when you start trying to prep a car properly ) next autox season and have them in the back room right now. There are advantages to running sways that stiff... but there are also disadvantages.. it is all tradeoff and I will just have to see how it balances on on the autox course with my setup and driving style.

While the SS-Ps are one of the better coilover packages out for the tC right now off the shelf.. believe it or not they and other japanese makers are considered cheap by more serious competitors. The japanese spring companies typically leave a lot of error in their spring manufacturing, leading to spring rates that wont well match their specs on a spring dyno. But, like I said, the Teins are pretty durned good for what is out there currently. And yes, I am already working on the math to create a better coilover setup by mix matching some existing parts with better springs and dampers

Un4Scene

That's an excellent write up, Engifineer! I can see it being a little too technical for some of the less indoctrinated, but excellent all the same. I would suggest a piece about strut bar's though, as many people seem to think that they have something to do with the suspension, since they have the possibility of improving handling. That being said, I can honestly say, from my own personal experience, that when I put the TRD rear sway bar on my tC, with no other suspension modifications, it made a noticeable improvement in handling with no noticeable degradation in ride quality. A sway bar has absolutely nothing to do with how stiff the car rides on flat, smooth ground, such as decent pavement. It only has any effect when you're turning or going over bumps (although the bumps are debatable from a physics standpoint). That said, if you get a single sway bar (on either end of the car) that is too stiff then it most certainly will cause the car to act erratically in curves and turns. As for springs, struts and coilovers, yes, they will undoubtedly make the ride stiffer, but most of the time people get these parts because they don't want to drive a car that handles like an '81 Buick. If you're looking for a super-smooth and cushy ride then just go with the sway bar(s) and/or tower braces later on (if you want it stiffer in turns), but stay away from messing with the springs or struts. If you want to change the springs or struts then just get a quality OEM replacement - they will usually be very slightly stiffer, but not to the extent of a performance piece.

It really all just comes down to which pieces add up to the combination of stiffness and handling that you want. I doubt anyone on here has the proper test equipment, so it's just trial, error, and opinion.

engifineer

I didnt do as much on the strut bars do to the relative low effectiveness of them on the tC. The rear may have more of an effect, but overall that is less of a concern than the front. And the front has very, very little effect. I have one... but it mostly just looks cool

I agree that the rear sway made a big difference by making the car a bit more neutral. Stiffer sways will make the car skitter around more on uneven bumps since you are removing suspension independence, but the TRD is not that extreme and is a good balance overall on the stiffest setting.

Cars in general are set up to understeer more than oversteer from the factory, since that is the safest setup on the street. When the average driver goes too fast into a corner, the car will tend to understeer first rather than going around backwards. That is one reason you see negative camber in back and positive up front on most stock cars.

Dont rule out alignment either. That has a big influence on handling. You can easilly run -1.5 degrees of camber up front on the street with no ill effects on tires. Especially rotating them regularly. I run -1.5 up front and -1.25 in rear. For autox events, I run about -3.0 up front :D

But what is perfect for autox is typically quite a ways off from what works well on a road course or even the street, so application is also very important.

Un4Scene

This reminds me... I remember reading a statistic once that 80% of drivers would rather hit a telephone pole than push their car past 0.4 lateral G in a curve. A car will handle significantly different when it's actually pushed to the limit (such as in auto-x) than it will under so-called "normal" driving. Something to consider anyways...

Yeah, when I put the front strut-tower brace on mine I was a little dissapointed with how little difference it made. I suppose it just goes to show how stiff the front end already is on the tC - which would account for it's tendency to understeer. I suppose I should've expected it considering the motor was designed for a car that is considerably larger and heavier. However, I prefer a little controlled oversteer on my cars, and I plan on putting in the Ingalls rear brace. I expect that the rear brace without the front would make for a little too much unexpected oversteer on slick roads, and this aint no trailer queen.

Anyways, the effectiveness of a strut tower brace can vary drastically from one vehicle to another. On the opposite end of the spectrum from the tC, I had a '71 Ford Torino GT in which I could actually watch the body twist and untwist if I accelerated through a curve.

engifineer

I would expect almost no difference from a rear brace the way this car is set up. Of course, there will be some that bought into the whole ingalls rear brace that even claim on some threads it reduced body roll... but that is physically impossible so those reviews sort of lose credit

But yes, cars handle differently given the application. On a long sweeper, a car will oversteer much easier than it will in a pin turn, where its understeer characteristic is exploited more. I wouldnt take a car fully prepped for autox and drive it to its fullest on a road coarse for example.. they are just different animals.

pinoyFMtC

^Well said engifineer.

Un4Scene

After reviewing the details of the Ingalls Rear Brace I think it probably is a waste of time for street driving, and would probably only make a minimal difference when pushed to the limit.

That aside, Engifineer, I'd like to continue this discussion in detail, but I don't think we need to jack this thread any more than we already have. If you know of another thread that would be more appropriate link it for us, and I'll pick it up there.

TRD-Chris

I have the RS5.0 and came with TRD Springs and Rear Sway already. Was thinking of picking up a Front and Rear Strut Bars.
I searched around and found out that the Ingalls will have issue with my stock sub. Another Rear Strut I found required cutting the carpet .

Can anyone recommend me a decent Rear Strut without cutting the carpet?

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TRDTech

first off, dealerships are a great place to buy brand new trd parts. they match trdsparks prices, get the parts within 2 days, and don't charge for shipping!

and another note, get some coilovers! you wont regret it

Andymcc123

I can’t find the TRD shocks (PTR04-21051) available anywhere (discontinued, it says).... Does anyone know where to find them? Or something comparable to the TRD shocks (that will work well with the TRD springs).... thanks!

** update **: Nevermind, I just purchased the TRD coilovers instead.