JordanOfGilead

And exaggerated beyond Toyota's own tolerances when lowered on Toyota Racing Development springs provided by Toyota.

I'll just talk to my local service department about whether or not megan RUCAs would effect my warranty I guess.

biglilsteve

iTrader: (2)

They won't affect your warranty. And if you ever have a suspension problem that you would like for the dealer to check out...throw the stocks back on before taking it in.

oblivionlord

Initially you make it sound as if car manufacturers have to catter to you even though you are altering it beyond spec. No car that I know has any way to adjust rear camber or front camber out from the factory. Its third party companies that decide if its worth it to supply something to the market only when there is a large profit to be made. Toyota isnt going to catter to this and i honestly dont know of any major car company that will since you are using an aftermarket part to alter the car from spec.

Considering trd is aftermarket and only supply springs then i highly doubt it would make any sense for them to invest into something such as a rear camber kit as well as a front camber adjuster just for a smalll tiny market. If there was an actualy demand that merited a good amount of profit then im sure they would have made 1 by now. This is obviously not the case since only 1 company produced a rear camber kit.

Its quite clear that the honda civic scene has a vastly larger audience to market parts from dozen of companies since there is lots of profit to be made. The second gen tc scene is just small. Not anywhere enough to merit money and time like 1st gen tc has.

JordanOfGilead

I am not altering it beyond spec. The dealership is altering it with parts that are optional from the dealership and provided by the OEM, whether you consider them "aftermarket" or not.

If Toyota is going to offer parts to be provided by Toyota and installed by the dealer upon purchase of the vehicle, then the vehicle should not leave the dealership out of Toyota's specs. They need to meet their own standards, or not supply parts that will put their cars out of spec. It's that simple.

If I were buying lowering springs from a third party and this happened, it would be something entirely different, but when I buy equipment from the company that manufactured the car, equipment specifically made for THIS car, I expect that the car stay within manufacturer specifications when the equipment is installed. AMG equipment doesn't put a Mercedes out of factory spec, Shelby equipment doesn't put a mustang out of factory spec, M equipment doesn't put a bmw out of factory spec, STI equipment doesn't put a Subaru out of factory spec, so why is it ok for TRD equipment to put a scion out of factory spec?

The way you're talking, it sounds like you think that is an unreasonably high expectation from a manufacturer, but (like I said before), I am an engineer in the automotive industry and anything remotely similar to this kind of behavior from my company, any of our suppliers, or any of our customers would drive us all out of business. It's lazy engineering and it is entirely unacceptable. It has nothing to do with them catering to me specifically and everything to do with product quality. I'm not asking that they manufacture it with adjustable rear camber, but I expect the camber to be roughly equal on both sides of the car. I also expect that any "options" I can order with the car do not throw the vehicle out of alignment specifications because that is complete and utter bull____.

JordanOfGilead

Just for the record, even though the situation is different because it was marketed as a performance vehicle, my '14 genesis coupe came with adjustable camber in front and rear from the factory.
Additionally, my '98 civic and '02 cavalier that I used to own never had any problems getting their camber within +/- 0.2 of zero with the factory suspension setup, and both of those were MUCH cheaper cars than the tC.

oblivionlord

Ive owned a 98 civic and if u r refering to stock height then sure but once u lower it to a certain point then the camber will be off. U had to use washers on the controll arm to push it out to correct camber.

oblivionlord

TRD is not original equipment. They are after market just like anyone else thats aftermartket except with 1 difference being that they an inhouse partnershiped with Toyota. That does not mean that that their parts are speced the same as OEM. When you put on lowering spring you ARE decreasing the strut movement which WILL now have a limiting travel distance that is no longer speced for stock height. Even with TRD springs being 1" drop, you are now constantly adding compression to the stock strut which will prematurely damage it in time.

The rear camber will be off when you lower the back because there is nothing on the vehicle stock to adjust the arm to be pushed out. Simply push down on the back of the car and youll see the rear wheels squat out. This is just how cars function.

The TC was designed to be an economy car, not a sports car.

JordanOfGilead

I get that lowering it will have an affect on the camber. What I'm mad about is that the camber is so different from one side to the other and cannot be zeroed in with the original setup.

I'll go back to my examples of all of the performance divisions for pretty much every single other manufacturer not providing equipment that puts the vehicle out of OEM spec. Why is everybody just willing to bend over and take it when it comes to TRD?

The tC isn't anything close to an economy car. It barely gets 30mpg highway. My civic gets 36 and my crx pushes 40. Hell, my genesis even got 26 highway and had DOUBLE the power of the tC. It is by no means an economy car.
It is marketed by scion as a "sports coupe" and they sell performance equipment as optional with purchase of the vehicle. I know it's not the most sporty of cars. It's honestly probably the absolute worst car I have ever owned in that it tried to find a compromise between power and efficiency and as a result ended up with neither.

That being said, in no way is it acceptable for the alignment to be so different on one side than the other from the factory. Camber should be able to be brought within half a degree of zero on all four corners with stock suspension. If they hadn't cut corners with both how wide open their spec is and their inability to hit the optimal camber from the factory, the TRD springs they offer wouldn't throw it out of spec.

The entire purpose of a specification range on anything that is measured is to aim for having about 99% of your manufactured components fall within about +/- half of the "acceptable" range. When you start to go outside of that and have components pushing the specification limits, you run a higher risk of components failing specification. That is exactly what Toyota is doing with the tC stock suspension settup. They are not safely manufacturing within specifications and, instead, are pushing on the edge of it which results in measurements falling beyond spec range as soon as anything is done to the suspension. It is lazy engineering.

Sorry to rant.
tl;dr version: I'm not mad that lowering the car increases the camber, I am mad that the Toyota engineers were too lazy to make the suspension setup right in the first place. It's an outrage and they shouldn't be able to get away with it, but they will if everybody just shrugs and ignores the problem.

oblivionlord

The reason why its off on 1 side is because this is a cheap manufactuered vehicle. There is no 50 to 50 weight balance on this car like some highend bmw's where youll get an even height all around. Your civic does not have an equal height all around from the factory and there will be no cars with an equal height unless its manually crafted where things like that matter. This car is a mass produced vehicle for the crowd that is on a budget.

Doesnt matter if its trd or any other company. Unless theres profit to be made then the company isnt going to waste their time and expense to offer specific items to a very small market.

There is no wide range of companies offering drive axles for this car. You cant order a drive axle or any of the internal barrings at autozone or discount auto like u could with a civic.

There are virtuall no video or picture tutorials online by the masses like the civic owners for this car.

The list goes on and on and you honestly expect any company to care about your issue with the rear camber just because theres no adjustment at the rear?

Please name a large number of economy cars that give u a rear camber adjustment from the factory. I bet it will only be a handfull and thats it.