unless the yaris and vitz come in a 4door sedan that won't be the next gen echo. toyota america has hinted of a hatchback and sedan replacement but Scion will have something to say about an affordable sub-compact hatchback if toyota releases one. if they intend on coming out with a small hatch then why not keep the celica. it doesn't make sense to have two vehicles that are nearly identical in looks and price.

 

I've always liked the vitz...

 

Still no armrest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Let's look at this:

Yes, they mention this as being the next generation Echo. However, they also state that it may not retain the Echo name. What's to say that this couldn't be the next generation xA? I really don't see the point in having an Echo (or other Toyota) compete with Scion! It's like two brothers going at it! I also don't agree with the statement that new car buyers will be looking for an Echo or Corolla over a Scion. If Toyota markets things correctly, Scion could take off, but we'll see how they play their cards...

 

Echo!
Echo!
Echo!
Echo!
Echo!

just being silly!!

 

JESUS READ THE ARTICLE!

Toyota does not want people looking for a "cheap economical" car to buy Scions. Scion is Toyota's attempt to get young buyers intrested in Toyota's by making Scions "hip and trendy" ever see a Scion add or brochre? They want old foogies that want a cheap car to buy Echos and base Corrolas. Previous Echo was a flop, the car was just fuggly. To keep out the stigma of the odd looking Echo Toyota might release the new "Echo" under its orginal names of Yaris or Vitz. It will NOT BE A SCION.

 

Damn Corbic, ease up! You've got to admit, despite what the article states, it doesn't make any sense to have the Echo2 and the xA compete with each other. Granted, it's similar to the Corolla and tC competing now (to an extent, except that they're not the same car like the Vitz/Yaris and xA are), but Toyota should realize that marketing aside, people will buy a car because it suits their needs. You can ask anyone on these boards, there are numerous people driving Scions that don't fit the "hip and trendy" demographic. Hopefully you haven't ____ed off any of the "old foogies" that stalk these boards and love their Scions.

 

Why would it not make since? Have you seen the GM line up? Cavalier and Sunfire, Grand Prix, Impala, Monte Carol, Buick Regal, Olds Alero... et al.

These are all the same cars with slight exterior changes under different brands marketed toward different people. While just because an Echo costs 12,000, a Scion costs 13,000 and a Vitz will be around 12,000 doesn’t mean they are competing for the same people. Scions are met to be for "young hip" youths in their late teens and early 20s. This is so when they turn 30-40 they then buy a Toyota. Vitz/Echo will be for someone who is already 30-40 and wants a nice cheap, fuel efficient car to commute with. Completely different goals. As it is now however, the Echo is fuggly with crappy interior, overpriced and not very utilitarian, so to make that "economical cheap" sale dealers have been selling Scions to the 30-40 crowed which is hurting the Scion image. I see no real overlap on marketing. One could argue that the xB and xA are competing with each other.

 

yeah, I have a feeling that this will eventually be the next xA. . . it's just too similar to bring to the US, and it's too much of a goldmine to let go. With a car that clean, I'd be proud to have it as a successor.

GM is one of the worst run businesses in the planet, as every book on business states. . . the redundancies in model cost big $$$$$$ and confuse the buyer. . . GM has been and is currently in the process of downsizing their redundancies.

I honestly give little credit to the article. . . I'd expect anything good to come in an official Toyota press release, not some internet junkie site. . . secondly, this is obviously the Japanese vitz. We have no idea if this will even arrive in America, let alone what their business strategy is here, versus Japan/Global.

 

autoweek, to me, is not the best source for credible info. . . they gave us the tuna fish lookin pics of the Avalon, the nasty rediculous Supra replacement pics, etc etc. . .

 

None the less. The Vitz/Yaris is the Echo, so to replace the Vitz/Yaris it would also inefect be replaceing the Echo. Do you realy think they woudl keep the Echo around forever? It would also make sence, thier is much overlap in any car line, why price a BMW 3-Series so it costs as much, if not more then a BMW 5er? Why have a Jetta station wagon when you have a Golf? Why have a Corrola and a Matrix? Same car, why have a bB, Ist, and Vitz? All the same car, all sold in the same market? I feel Toyota will want a replacement for the Echo because they want to maintain a sub 14k car. Scion is "not" Toyota. Scion is Toyota's currently failing attempt to atract young buyers who one day will then buy 30k Camry's and 50k Lexus's. Right now young people are buying Hyundai's and Volkswagen's, this is bad for Toyota because Hyundai is looking to start thier own luxury brand (ie lexus).

The Japanese weened an entire generation off "Detriot Steel" back in the late 70's and 80's. This generation now "hates" Domestics, however thier childern now see Japanese cars as either overprices (cough Toyota/Honda) or boring (cough Toyota) and old people cars (cough Toyota). It makes perfect sence to have a Vitz, xA and xB. All three apply to different groups of buyers, thier is no overlap

xA: Hip hot car for F&F fans
xB: Ugly utilitarian car for those who also find the Gugenhime to be cool (spelling)
Vitz: Eco-car for the commuter and person on a budget

 

1. Echo pricing = more than xA comparably equipped
2. celica & MR2 are done for
3. Echo was originally intended to sell towards youth, not the budget concious
4. Echo will likely be hacked, as it was a huge flop in sales volume, target, and target market(very important). . . they don't want Lexus to sell to new car buyers either
5. Matrix is a wagon, Corolla is not. . . the Matrix is designed to compete with Subaru market, reason why it was given the 2ZZ engine from the Celica, and not the Corolla (although that engine JUST became available)the info is available somewhere. . . and the Matrix is a joint venture with GM. . . since the Corolla is no longer a joint venture, they have to maintain their contract with GM
6. Scion is not failing. . . saying this makes everything you lose all credibility, and that's me being kind. Look at all/any numbers; the cars can't stay on the lots fast enough. Sales are higher than any and all projections, and above intended quotas from Toyota Motor Corp, which is a HUGE success by any business standards. In fact, Scion has been given major credit for Toyota hitting a RECORD HIGH profit margin in its history.

You are thinking like a buyer, not like a business. Bottom line, the Echo (japanese vitz) is supposed to appeal to the youth, here in the US, and that is a FACT. Scion is doing just that, and is a success. Business standpoint, with Scion being a success, there is no need for the Echo. Scion's are not supposed to be F&F cars. . . they are econo cars which are not boring.

Yes, the xA & xB are the same car, but the polarization of buyers shows how successful their strategy is. Most xB buyers did not consider the xA, and vice versa. Scion was in a test phase initially, but now it is 100% go. The Echo is the ONLY overlap, and I'd be willing to bet that it will disappear. Sales figures are just to low for them to care to continue the car, revamped or not.

 

what they mean is that theyre gonna discontinue the echo and make a hatchback and a sedan under a new name and its not gonna be a scion because they dont want to tarnish the scion name with old pppl buying them. there is gonna be a new toyota hatchback and it isnt gonna be a scion. the toyota hatch is gonna be marketed to the older crowd while the scion is gonna be marketed towrds the younger hipper crowd....

 

Thank God!
Someone that understands english.
As for Scion failing, sales numbers? No. Goal, Yes! Scion has one of the oldest buying age averages. Something like 42 years. Just look around this board, a lot of people are not in the 16-24 group, even then internet isnt the best example, seeing its low age range.

 

we never said anything about platform sharing. what we were talking about was having two vehicles in a toyota and scion dealership that's similar in price and size. it doesn't make sense to have two sub-compact hatchbacks. corolla and matrix share the same platform and mechanicals but they don't look the same. matrix and xA are both hatches but one is bigger than the other. it goes back to what i said about the celica and tC. toyota already foresaw there wasn't a market for two coupe liftbacks under the same roof with the introduction of the tC. you compared it to GM the platform sharing and styling cues by what you stated below, but the sunfire is sold at a pontiac dealer and the cavalier at a chevy dealer. this so called replacement for the echo will be in the same building as the xA and that's what were debating. it doesn't make sense if its sold under the same roof regardless which market or demographic they're trying to get.

 

"Thank God! Someone that understands english." A dealer even understands that it doesn't make sense to sell the xA and Echo2 under the same roof. As has been stated, Chevy/GM sells their vehicles under different marques at different dealerships, but is looking to minimize the overlap in their lineup(s). It just makes sense! And it's obvious that demographic-targeting marketing only works to an extent, especially in this situation. As I (and others) have stated, if someone wants an economical hatch, they're gonna buy a Scion, regardless of whether they be a 20-something year old trend-setter or a 40-something year old who's price/value conscious.

 

$20 says there will be an Echo replacement. As for the Celica and tC, Cellica is getting kicked out because of faily sales, which have been happening since 2000, not since the tC came out. Its also rummored the Celcia will just reappear as a Scion.

How does it not make sence to have simliar cars? It offers diveristy at almost no additional cost (same platforms, same parts, just different body pannels). In Japan they seem to have no problem offering the Vitz, Ist and BB, so why would they have a problem will all three here? Mitsubishi off the top of my head offers the FTO and the Eclipse, which are simliar? Why offer a Avalon and a GS300? Why offer a Highlander and a LX-470? Same truck, same car basicly, just marketed toward different people with different tates.

Why offer a RSX and a SI, same car, both two door hatches. Why offer an Accord and a TL? Murano and a FX? Same SUV? Magnum and 300C, both sell like hot cakes. Passat and A4? Beetle and Golf? Identical cars infact which compete for the same shopper. The list goes on forever.

 

So you're basically saying that the xA is like the cheap version of the Vitz/Ist, which here in the States would be offered as the "luxury" version of the xA in the form of the Echo2 sans the Echo name? In those words, I can see what you're getting at. But you've still got to admit, it makes little sense in real-world terms (screw what Scion/Toyota marketing has to say) to sell a cheap version of a car and then a luxury version of the [almost] same car under the same roof as different models...

 

Ok, answer this. Why does Toyota sell the Vitz, Ist and BB in Japan? They all basicly overlap, just like a Echo, xA and xB would here.

 

Not everyone wants a "SCION" badged vehicle. They want a car with "Toyota" badging. Not everyone likes the "S" but prefer the "T" emblems. It's a mentality thing. Some people dont want the hype or an "unknown brand (to them)." People want a reliable, fuel efficient Toyota and not some new "brand." Most people probably dont know that SCION's are Toyota's.

I would also expect that if this next Gen Vitz is sold in the US, the suspension will be softer, engine and exhuast noise lower, lower cruising RPM (55+MPH).