bB384

Okay, Deal! But you would have to remove the other parts that I've installed since 2005 and install my OEM parts, heres the list: Tom's 7.8 lbs flywheel, SPEC Stage 2 Clutch, Perrin lightened crank pulley, Celica GTS Injectors from a 1ZZ-FE, and get me a loaner OEM spec Midpipe, (I deleted my resonator, and went 2inch cat back) then once I prove you wrong you would have to install my parts again, and of course my free manifold. If you're willing to do all that for me to prove you wrong, go ahead. If not, can we move on? I thought this thread was about YOU looking for intrest in an intake manifold that you wanted to prototype. My mentioning the dyno numbers was to back you up, in claiming that getting over 120 hp with I/H/E and a manifold (like your Yaris test mule) I apoligize for even bringing my dyno numbers up. because instead of you getting the scrutinity, I am. Now lets please get on topic.

dynatek

Tell you what, you can run all of those mods and the deal is still the same. It is worth the price of an intake to me to learn something new (like the power output you described versus the mods indicated). If so, you earn a free intake which will further improve the power output. If not, you and the community learn a little something important about the relationship between HP & TQ and what real numbers are from specific modifications. One of the problems with the internet in general and forums specifically is that misinformation runs rampant. Whether this is intentional or uninitentinal on the part of the individual posting, getting real information is of critical importance to me. So much so that I am willing to possibly spend the cost of the new intake to provide the truth. So you and the rest of forum know, my contention is not that your motor makes 112 hp (SAE corrected on Dynojet), but that the motor does not make 112 hp AND 113 lbs. ft. of torque. If I am wrong, I will post to your success and if not you can do likewise. Either way, the community wins by getting real information.

bB384

I'm game, but you do notice that I have modified my car for horsepower and obviously lost torque, thats not an excuse , you of all people should know that a lightned crank pulley, lighter flywheel and freeer flowing exhaust should loose torque in favor of gains in horsepower, either way, I'm down. I still don't see your point of TQ and HP. I didn't specify at what rpm's my peak numbers were, and and I didn't specify that my peak torque was at redline or something uneducated like that. I know the relationships of torqe and horsepower, I know how to calculate horsepower based off torque and rpm, and I know that power bands both rise and fall at certain points relative to weather its horsepower or torqe and how to expect its counterpart to rise fall on the graph.

dynatek

This will be my last post on this subject and we should let the dyno decide the reality of the situation sinceit is obvious you don't have experience with real-world dyno testing. Having run 6 different direct back to back tests on light-weight flywheels-I can say there was no change to HP or torque from that mod. Doubtful if the lightened accessory pulley will have any measurable change-under drive pulleys offer power by slowing the accessory speed relative to engine speed which will add power (actually it reduces some of the loses but the effect on the dyno is the same). The free-flowing exhaust systems we tested on the yaris, Xb and Xd improved power everywhere in the curve so I don't understand your explanation about losing Tq and gaining hp. If you meant trading higher rpm hp numbers for losses in low-speed torque-the actual dyno testing indicated otherwise. My ponit is that a yaris or Xb 1NZFE motor will not produce peak numbers of 110 hp AND 112 lbs. ft. of torque-the peak torque value is going to be much lower. I am just trying to help scion owners understand the reality-it is important for them to understand what power gains are offered by individual and multiple performance components and to not be unrealistic about the gains when they read a post like this.

greybox

Seems like this is getting pretty heated and it would be nice to keep some competition going so there are numbers soon-but-we are all here to see what the intake does on a Scion XB. I have done a ram air mod and have no idea what it would do on a dyno but it makes my car feel better. The lightened flywheel does nothing to add hp-it just frees up some weight so the engine reacts faster-that would definitely make the car go faster quicker (acceleration) but probably wouldn't affect a dyno at all.

The larger pipe from the cat/header to the axle has actually been proven do loose hp and especially TQ.

What I would like to see (and probably most other interested people too) is a dyno day when a stock box is run with and without the manifold and then a modded box is run with and without the new manifold. That gives an idea of what difference it makes to a stock or mostly stock motor and how much it adds to the modded car that probably can use the increased air flow more. (example-stock box 86whp before and 100whp after and then modded box 110whp before and 132whp after)

Those are purely example numbers-it would show a 14hp gain for stock but 22hp gain with other mods showing that a modded engine benefits more but they both gain.

I am interested, I just want to know where in the curve the power is added and how much under the curve power the manifold adds. If it adds 2hp, $700 is high. If it adds 10 to a stock one and 15 to a modded one than $700 is a bargain.

dynatek

I'm with you. The importance of area under the curve is why I posted the power graph. I hate when people tell me something is worth 10 hp-that is not enough info. I need to know where the 10 hp gain is, whether it is peak to peak or elsewhere on the curve and is there any trade off in power elsewhere for these gains. The graph shows the gains offered by the intake through the entire rev range. Unless the car is equipped with a long-tube header (which effects resonance tuning), the gains offered by the intake will be the same on stock and mild applications-we've already tested that.

jambaxb

Is there a laundry list of modifications and pics yet? I see the pics and the dyno sheet on the other thread. Nothing here yet......hmmm.

stenger

ok, so im jumping in to this as much as I hate this site...

A lighten flywheel, on a low hp car isn't doing you jack crap. All its doing is speeding up the revs. Thus for, going right past your power band.

Before you call me out, you need to know that I do enjoy road racing, and hate drag racing.

a power pulley will make hp. An intake, the same, axle back, same (but not as much as a full free flowing exhaust. high flow cat, 2.25" pipe all the way to the exit. ) Anywhom.... If you want to use your tranny right, re-gear it. 4th gear is terrible in the 5spd's. A lighten flywheel, not going to show any gains in hp.

As far as the intake goes. Sound legit. The Weapon R one is all about air mass, and not air velocity. You can cram all the air you want into a intake, but the better flow, the better your gains. Why do you think just a simple port match, or mild port makes a big difference? Because you're increasing the velocity.

On my old car (2.4L LD9 in a LS Sedan cavalier) there was a great swap we could do for the intake manifold. It was a manifold from a HO 2.3L w41 motor. That + its tb and a adapter plate (which acted as a spacer as well, so if you went that route, vs. making new holes, you gained 2 more hp/tq on average). Of course, we also had the option to swaping about the intake cam with a 2.3LO and a 2.3L W41 HO exhaust cam and would gain about 30hp with that, the mani/tb swap, and a cat back with high flow cat.

I'd be interested in this, IF you had a ITB option :D

greybox

The jist of what you said is just right-but the full exhaust item is not. They have done dyno sheets to prove it-without that smaller mid-pipe area it loses TQ (to be expected) but it did lose HP as well.

It requires that size bore (or similar to it) to have a scavenging effect where it actually extracts the gasses. The header would help get it to there better but it would lose the momentum and then the engine has to push it out as opposed to it flowing out.

dynatek

The info you provided about the intake manifold (mass flow and velocity) is not accurate. Intake manifolds are optimized for specific engine speeds and not to maximize flow (mass or velocity). There are three distinct ram effects offered by an intake design-these come from the combination of runner length, cross section and plenum volumn (and associated inlet tract length). If maximum flow was the design goal, then we'd all be running around with larger-diamter, short runners, but this makes much less power (at every rpm) than the proper runner design. For any given combination of displacement, cam timing (intake opening point relative to crank angle is most critical), there is an optimum runner/plenum design to maximize volumetric efficiency (we see as power production). Generally, intake designs must work over a borad range of engine speeds so they are almost always a compromise (that is why many manufacturers run dual runner and or resonance plenum designs). Not sure why you would ant an individual throttle body intake manifold since it would nnot work with your exusting MAF management systema nd you'd have to install a stand alone management system. If you are asking that we have individual throttle bodies in the intake with a common plenum-that is a waste of time-it will not show any power over the same design with a single (properly sized) throttle body. Hope this helps.

greybox

So where does this stand? I see someone made a manifold for the Versa and it made some difference and the xD manifold is definitely worthwhile.

How hard would it be to use a throttle body for a yaris ( or whatever one is already available) and just throw one of these on an XB or use a throttle body from a tC for more flow....I don't know the compatibility on that last one but if it's straight forward that would be cool.

richmond2000

I would consider buying when avail, please update progress

dynatek

as soon as the Yaris intake is completed we will look at what it takes to make it work on early Xb. Throttle bodies are different between the two (orientation) and there may be other difference-won't know until we get our hands on one to compare. Any early Xb owners in Las vegas (or Palmdale, CA) area that we can look at?

MattyRattyPoo

^Dang I sooo wish you were closer to LA area! I down for whatevers you making.

bB384

My original offer still stands on the table. Let me know if you need an xB, I'll do whatever I can to see xB's get more aftermarket support.

CASTREX

OK, it looks like now is the time for you bring your can on!!

Richard is looking for a 1st gen box to test fit his new Yaris Manifold.

CASTREX

Posted by DYNATEK ( Richard Holdener):

This is the official photo of the new intake for the Yaris. We need to get an early Xb owner to allow us to check fitment on the Xb to see hwat is necessary to make this (or version thereof) work on the Xb. Using this intake, a prototype of our long tube header, CAI and NST u-pulleys, we increased the power output of the stock yaris motor from 98 hp to 123 hp. We would also like to check fitment of the long-tube header on the early Xb.

CASTREX

For those of you who are not up to date with the latest Richard achievements.

On his latest test Richard was able to pull 123 whp out of a NA Yaris, with nothing more than bolt on parts. And NO engine tuning. All testing was done running with the stock ECU.

The following mods were used to achieve those results:

Dynatek's Intake Manifold

Dynatek's Long tube header mated to a free flowing (catless) mid pipe with no axleback

Custom CAI

NST under drive pulley set

CASTREX

Here is the Dynochart

Stock vs the mod's listed on the previous post

ShockTherapy

interested.