By the way, I am simply being the Devil's Advocate here. I love my XB. I've had a ton of cool power based cars (5.0l, Gtis, GLis, Corrado, A4, etc.) and even have a killer 350 plus hp 7.3l Powerstroke. I love making something go faster and handle better than stock. It is the pure joy of creating something from a platform that wasn't really intended to be that way.

The joy of customizing.

If you re-read my posts, I have stated that each person goes whatever route they feel is refelctive of their needs and style (To each their own).

This thread is simply making sure that all these killer ideas are simply realistic and that we don't get arrogant and start saying our cars can beat all these other cars. It's too bully-like. Our cars beat all these other cars because we bought them.

We buy because we like. We buy and customize to be reflective and stand out. These cars are simply an extension of ourselves and our views of what we believe are important in what makes an automobile a work of art...

 

hey lizard , you're one of those elitists who will always be right even when you are often times wrong aren't you ?


and what bike weighs 400 lbs stock with 170 wheel hp? none that i've ever come across.....

 

Is that why i've beat a modded and stock wrx in autocross? And where are these 4k 1k 5k figures coming from? Hmm? What set up is this for? Get more specific, don't throw down figures if you don't know what mods you are talking about. You are being too general, my n/a set up is much more expensive than a f/i set up but then again i'm putting down more whp than most f/i set ups i've seen..basic f/i.

And why are you adding the price up? You can do that when you talk about what car is better for the MONEY, but NOT when you talk about the performance of a car. Any car can out perform any other car. It depends on how much money your willing to invest, ect, ect. Spoon's Fit ran identical times as a nsx on their testing course, i've seen a video of a road course environment a 300whp civic hatchback killing a ferrari 360 (? not sure on the model), i've personally beat a few cars i'm sure you'd say "it can't be done because with the financial difference thats the only money you have to mod" or whatever your point is. Hell, you are so general in your statements i don't even know if you have a point.

 

2006 ZX10... Not sure what you ride, but certainly not the 2006 ZX10. A GSXR 1000 is about 160 or a tad under. In superstock form, forget it, most the liter bikes are pushing close to 180 on the ground.

By the way, I'm not always right, I just play Devil's Advocate. If you can't handle that, I'd suggest not reading my responses. Most the time, with being a Devil's Advocate, I can also learn some stuff.

 

Look, driver's performance and ability will equal out many things.

The numbers are simple. Add the price of a supercharger, air intake, header, full exhaust system, coil overs, frame bracing, wheels, tires, sway bars, and a few other tid bits needed to handle 180 hp in a car designed around 100. I'm saying if you add $4-$7k to the XB, it is pretty much on equal footing as a WRX in stock form. Add $4-$7k to a stock WRX, and tell me what you get.

Auto X is also a matter of opinion. Road and Track and other reputable sources are much better than word of mouth. If you can show on paper your hp, your times and a driver of equal ability in a stock WRX, I'll shut up.

Auto X is a strange environment. Sometimes, there are cars with more trick components show up with basic street drivers doing the event. Auto X isn't a situation where you drive the two cars back to back and get the results. You are placed in a group of cars that are running against a clock.

If you can give us results of you driving both cars, I would be more interested. If you are a great driver and have many Auto Xs under your belt, what says the guy in the modded WRX does? He could be some rich kid with a bunch of goodies on his car...

Example. In my environment, we have novices who ride the same cc bikes as we experst do. Now, under the theory of power to weight and all that, a 1000 should smoke a 600, right? Well, a novice on a liter bike is much slower than a skilled expert on a 600. Why is that? Ability. Now, if the expert rides the 600 and the 1000 back to back, his lap times are faster on the 1000. Why? Skill level.

My point is simple. I agree that a car like the XB could beat a WRX at an Auto X. The situation is so dependant on too many variables as opposed to if you drove them on the same course back to back.

Kinda like a car test done by Car and Driver. The same guys drive all the cars. You get their times and it ranges from pro driver to street driver. Interestingly, some of the street guys go better in the lesser powered cars due to skill levels.

You're probably right, but I still stand by the fact that if you dump $4-$7k in an XB, you stand to either be of equal footing or less than a WRX, for example. The WRX is set-up much closer to the modded XB in it's stock form...

 

According to www.sportrider.com SportRider Website
[table:9d95292dbc][mrow:9d95292dbc]Bike[mcol:9d95292dbc]Wet Weight (lbs)[mcol:9d95292dbc]Wheel Horsepower
[row:9d95292dbc]Yamaha YZF-R1[col:9d95292dbc]450 [col:9d95292dbc]159.8
[row:9d95292dbc]Suzuki GSXR-1000[col:9d95292dbc]444 [col:9d95292dbc]159.8
[row:9d95292dbc]Kawasaki ZX-10R[col:9d95292dbc]451[col:9d95292dbc]166.1
[row:9d95292dbc]Honda CBR1000R[col:9d95292dbc]451[col:9d95292dbc]158.8[/table:9d95292dbc]

 

Very good, grasshopper, but I was stating 400 pounds which is only 50 off a wet weight (Includes a full tank of gas) and I rounded up to 170 from the 166 (4 off, wow!).

We dyno'd one at 167 so, dynos can be slightly different region to region and shop to shop. If you can tell the difference between 3.9 hp, you need a job as an engineer and a racer...

 

by the way, if you do 5 pounds (It's actually more) for each gallon of gas...

 

lizard, you have a aol/aim account? IM killerxromances if you do.

 

Don't get defensive. I didn't post this as a response to your post. When I posted this I didnt' see your ZX-10 post for some reason. This was in response to Hotbox05's comment that he has never come across a bike with those stats.

 

when did this turn in to a crotch-rocket thread? Lizard take your irrelevant posts elsewhere.

 

LOL....i was just about to say that..

Anyone else look up at the url after reading this last few post?

 

I appologize. Took that completely wrong. Sorry. Appreciate the back-up. This is starting to get a little out of hand. Maybe I shouldn't be the Advocate anymore...

I'm learning some good info, though and certainly a bit helpful with the ideas floating around in here from others...

I appologize, man. Thought you were the original poster about no bike with 170 and 400lbs...

 

Well, I was relating it to what I know and it is related. Heck under your mentality, this has become a WRX thread, as well.

Not sure, but if you read my posts, I am relating it to another aspect of vehicles to combat some comments. I'm trying to relate it to something else in order to possibly make others think...

 

Not sure what you are talking about. Maybe you were refering to my avatar? Let me know if something needs changed or something....

Not trying to be a bad ___ on here - just offering up my opinion. Apparently it has gone bad so, I'll keep it down a tad...

No one seems to appreciate other points of view or outside examples that aren't auto related.

 

if you are posting that 50 pounds isn't much on a bike you are insane. 10 pounds of a difference is huge as well as 2 hp is noticeable. man ....



i ride a different world of bike than these but i've ridden them before. currently i own the suzuki rmz 450. 48.5 hp in a 220 pound bike. same bike ricky carmichael rides

 

No, I was posting that 50 pounds is in the dry weight I was talking about vs. wet weight. Actually, you'd never notice 2 hp, my friend.

Oh, and trust me on this, your RMZ isn't the same as RC rides...

48.5 is low. Do some jetting and you'll be much happier. We've been getting 52 hp out of stock CRFs and YZs with just jetting. Add a pipe and race fuel... You'll like it much better. With a bike in the 50s on hp, you'll notcie 2-5 hp much more than a machine that's twice the weight, but three times the hp...

 

no ____e sherlock. but dry vs wet weight should be 50 pounds on much any bike.

and i was referring to the STOCK hp of my bike at the wheel. i'm just using this monster of a bike for the ultimate trail , and jumps bike , not racing so i can't go out and make it ***** out loud and fast just to only ride it within my red sticker dates and places.

enough about bikes lets talk scions and stop killing everyone's aspirations. no these cars will most probably never be race cars but with lots of work , tuning , fabrication , custom parts , bolt ons , dieting , these things can do much more than most people would ever think.

 

When did hotbox05 become the voice of reason?

j/k

Agreed, we need to get this great thread back on it's intended topic.

 

I agree. Let's get back to Scion talk. You are 100% correct in saying "These cars can do more than most would ever think."

I'm with you on that.

I do have a performance issue, though. The cars are light and you can certainly feel that in coming up on a semi truck. They act similar to a motorcycle in that they tend to get slapped around.

Will a spoiler help with that in any way? My reason is that many spoilers are simply cosmetic and the ones that are useful are HUGE. Any compromise? Is the stocker actually a working unit and helpful?

I know it isn't going to help with the side to side slaps, but it would help a little in keeping the rear a little more planted...

Again, performance-wise, this isn't an issue where it can accelerate to 60 mph in 4 seconds like a Ferrari, but you get my idea. At 80, they seem a little tail happy...