hotbox05

maybe you missed this part of my post

akira

for what it doesn't make any more power unless you making 300 plus or it will just be there for looks

latinotke639

i ment to say that if someone dosnt like how you post, open up onther discussion in off topic to discuss this "negativity" they all seem to say you have, but dont fill up worthwhile post with this crap, as am i doing right now

Scott17

Who said this was a "worthwhile" post? Who said what HotBox wrote wasn't "worthwhile"?

ghostrider25

scott17 hotbox and rton 20's are definently right on the money there are alot of negative complaints about ading wires on alot of other forums besides scion. I am very skeptical as well but I do know for a fact that MSD will be releasing a system compatible with the scion because the SRT-4 runs on the same desighn and they have been working on it for over a year they are projecting early 2007 release for a replacement system and it will be a kit new coils and a whole control system with some kind of device to increase the spark. I personally will waight on MSD and then waight on dyno releases from MSD but I think reversing technology and going back to spark plug wires is pointless.

jct

thats so true!!!

Maguyver

wow! im amazed this forum came up again, has any one looked at the start date on this. but good thing it did, i got some good input and hey ghostrider25 please if you hear any updates on the msd thing let me know. THANKS GUYS

ghostrider25

sure thing I talked with MSD extensively about their R&D into this system and if it wasn't for the dodge neon SRT-4 and the turbo lancer we wouldn't be getting a kit made. evidently there is a huge demand from those guys so MSD has been trying prototype after prototype trying to get it right. So they can corner the market fortunantly they know they will be able to market to the scion community as well. I expect that this MSD system will be very high quality when completed and will cost alot. I also imagine it will deliver every bit of what they claim their devoting so much time and effort into making this work it's crazy. They also know once the technology is mastered they will be able to adapt easily to new upcoming automobiles so this will be the begining that MSD is banking on to bring home the bread and butter for some time. I think this time MSD will deliver a highly reliable well tested product but as with anything time will tell and the release can always be pushed back or hit hurdles but I know it is something they are avidly pursueing

DOHCtorJT

Ok everyone, let's step outside for a minute and take a breath of fresh air.

The SRT-4 and Lancer Evolution do not have a coil-on-plug design like we do.

They also have 120-160 hp more than we do. Stock.

They have turbochargers.

They easily attain 300whp without removing the valve cover.

Most SRT-4/Evo owners race. Therefore the 2-step function of the MSD DIS-2 is appealing to them. As is the added ignition kill to prevent theft. Then add the Fast and Furious marketing hype, easy to mod nature, and fan boi love for these cars..MSD sees dollar signs.

Coil on Plug design is cheap, provides the least amount of resistance from more traditional (wires) ignition systems, and is perfectly suited to our 1.5L GAS SAVER.

Spending money to upgrade our ignition system is a waste. Even fancy $8 spark plugs are a waste. Hey but whatever makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside go for it. Chase that tornado fuel saver down with some Slick 50 and enjoy the performance increase from a lighter wallet.

hotbox05

coil on plug is in no way cheaper than other methods. go look up buying a coil pack on a 90- 00's car. it isn't cheap up to like 400 dollars.

DOHCtorJT

Not cheaper for the consumer, cheaper for the manufacturer. No wires to make, less labor on the assembly line, less materals. Remember these are $13k cars and pennies (and their yen equal) were pinched massively.

ghostrider25

well it doesn't matter to me one way or another I just gave the info I was given thats all ultimetly the dyno will tell the tale. The main problem with the scion is our ecu and emanage if people would go with a standalone setup alot more could be accomplished I think alot of people are stuck in an emanage rut.

RTon20s

I think a lot of people are "stuck in the emanage (/piggy back) rut" because of the way our (xb, not xA) ecu works. The ecu controls other systems besides the engine. Ditching our ecu in favor of a stand alone means losing traction control, etc.

The other advantage in a piggy back style ecu is ease of tuning. My understanding is that a piggy back system is much easier to set up and tune than most stand alone systems. Even though you might not get quite as good of results, you tuning cost (not to mention initial investment) can be much cheaper.

Now I am not saying that a stand alone ecu does not have it's place. But I just don't see a whole lot of need for the majority of daily driven $15k econo-boxes. Yup, even the boosted ones. And from what I have seen most guys have been able to pull pretty decent numbers using piggy back systems on both mildly boosted and non-boosted applications.

hotbox05

they don;t maki wires, they buy other companies wires...... less assembly on the line? by what 45 seconds? wrong.....

ghostrider25

Rton20s you know I highly respect your opinion and I think you have alot of great insight. The only thing that bothers me about the emanage is people complain about low boost low gains cel lights and the scion factory ecu always fighting it. Then I make a jump over to the echo forums and the guys running standalones with the same engines are easily breaking 200whp they aren't having fuel tuning problems with the right components in addition to the standalone and their not breaking the engine at boost levels emanage users claim they break their motors at. I've seen subaru wrx sti evo's and recently a supercharged s2000 gain 100whp just by switching to a stndalone and having it tuned properly. maybe the advances can be made to get emanage to the same numbers as the standalones the echo guys are running but the feedback I get from the echo guys is that it is unabtainable with emanage. The reason they give is that currently it doesn't allow enough tuning and control over the factory ecu. Standalones are coming down in price and used ones are readily available. As far as traction control I feel a good driver is going to think traction control is a nuisence not something that is helpful. This is of course assuming that the right suspension setup is in place. I've always seen more power made safely with standalones and the shops around here that do turbo performance work thats all they use or they will just burn a chip for the factory ecu. I do not know if this is possible on the scion burning a chip that is. I think emanage is less expensive and easier to tune for people who haven't been doing it for 30 years. Not to get off subject but I help with team Xecuter with xbox modchips and it kind of relates to this because when the modchips first came out they had to be soldered on and were prone to failure over time we got them to a point where you didn't even have to solder them in and you could program an xbox with a disk like slayers with ease for free. My hope is that emanage will evolve in the same way slayers did we all got together hundreds of us and wrote programs so millions of people could really unlock their gaming system. now were slowly working on the 360 with close to a thousand programmers now. If I had a scion turbo kit or supercharger kit and an emanage and an extra factory ecu. I would get the guys together and work on a chip for the factory ecu to unlock it's potential. But I don't and I don't have the funds right now until a new chip is released for the 360. I'm just trying to give you some insight into my thinking until some people really get together and unlock the potential of emanage. I think a standalone properly tuned would be far superior because it removes all the roadblocks. The numbers the echo guys are throwing down on the dyno to me is proof that the standalones are working and working very well.

RTon20s

I hear what you are saying. And I never said that I thought emanage would, or potentially could out perform a stand alone system. I was only stating that most people choose to go with piggy back systems because of ease of installation, ease of tuning and price.

When you get into a stand alone system it is only logical that you could provide more accurate, more complete tuning. Thus producing more power more efficiently. The drawbacks to this are losing other factory ecu controlled functions, cost for the system, and cost for the tuning. You also have to find someone talented enough to electronically tune and engine from the ground up. Not the easiest thing to find, depending on where you live.

Anyway, I think we are both thinking/saying the same things. Bottom line is, none of it is all that relevant to this thread. So back to the subject. "Until I see empirical evidence of increased performance and/or efficiency from the (yet to be produced) MSD ignition system, I won't believe it."

ghostrider25

me either lol but it's always interesting calling and finding out whats in development isn't it? lol ttyl.

Maguyver

lol I'm bringing this out of the depths of ......... well, the forum and ask lol anything yet?

otis06

New guy here...I've been following this thread because I'm interested in finding out whether or not there's any real advantage to using an MSD ignition system (which I see from previous posts apparently isn't even available for our cars yet) to improve fuel burn for more efficient operation and/or improved gas mileage. I've got an '06 xA with the automatic (would've gotten the 5 speed, but my wife wouldn't be able to drive it then), and my main interest here is improved engine efficiency without modifying anything that already works well enough...no headers, no cold air intakes (unless they improve efficiency without adding noise or decreasing reliability), no superchargers, no swapping a larger engine in (although a V8 would be cool...not much work involved in that modification, huh?), just minimal things. I'd appreciate any comments, especially from Scott17 and RTon20s, since you guys seem like you know what you're doing.

Fire away.

jct

just take off the snorkel thats on the air intake box, along with a K&N drop in air filter...