Air ride isn't for me. I'm more of a performance-handling type of guy, and while air ride has come along way i don't think i'd want to sport it. Great for shows, but not on the track. Thats what i've always said about it.

 

How much are tien basics and do they include rear shocks?

 

Complete kit includes everything you need, they run around $1,050.

 

next time. i didn't do the rear. Its suppose to Snow here Saturday so i'm going to keep the box as is for a short time. If i get a chance i'll show you how its sitting now...i have the front down a bit more then i had it set before lowering it for the photo and it feels great and is more agressive. Nothing is touching..not at full lock..not agressive turns..nothing. I took a buddy out for a ride in it today...he has an air ride suspension and guess what he just sold? he's changing out after getting the smoothest ride he's been in ..in an xB. I couldn't be happier. I hope the people following this thread get an opportunity to take a ride in an xB lowered fully in the rear(perch in place)with at least a level front.


Jeff

 

That is a little high of a quote for Tein Basics. MSRP on those is $890. Usually they can be had for around $800 bucks. Just keep an eye out for deals.

 

Figures, last time i took a look at tein coilovers it was about a year ago, so they were probably much more expensive then compared to now. I keep my eyes on Jic, HKS and progress interests me if i can get straight answers. I look forward to checking out lip's pictures.

 

i'm confused...what answers i gave that weren't straight. i posted photos as well

 

Its not just you..Its the fact one says one thing, and someone else says another and both own the same suspension set up. Thats what makes everything sound questionable to me.

 

i just went to clubxb to take a look. well what can i say....he isn't providing true information. The ride quality is superb. Its like my biggest point about the system. maybe its his tires and weight of his sound system...i have no idea. I posted photos of the kit at its fullest with its locations to my fenders and whats touching because of my offset. i couldn't pull the car out of the garage for better photos because of that fact. What i showed and discussed is 100% factual. I took off time from my daily grind to do those photos and install pics. Mind you....this is the exact same person i either mentioned here or another thread with this email from John at progress. Note...Chris did NOT install this kit into his xB

quoted email

"Hey Jeff,

This is Chris Caldwell's xB. He is the first consumer to test our product. He has over 3500 miles on this kit and has done nothing to the kit since I installed it with our Rear Anti-roll Bar the day of the Longo Scion Irwindale Show in Oct. '05. The PROGRESS Coil-over Kit is lowered all the way in the rear and leveled in the font to match. Chris rolls on 18in wheels and has a small sub box in the rear. Not a single problem or complaint yet, he just turned 21, and will be representing PROGRESS at all local show events this season. He came by yesterday and is still trouble free and rolling strong. Here's a photo, but you may already have this one.

John"

so to summerize? read all of my posts. absolutely accurate. i urge everyone to take a ride in someones xB with this kit on. its that nice

 

Those are pretty hot. Im running the dropzone coils in the front with about a 3.75" drop. 17x7 rims with no rub at all. In the rear Im running stock for right now. Im trying to get a forward lean to the car and Im not 100% decided on what to do yet. I guess I could just put the rears in as well and adjust them higher....

 

if your near at the Peruzzi Scion near Lansdale PA i'd be happy to show you my progress setup and take you for a ride.

Jeff

 

I would assume the rear could go lower with a shorter shock no?

 

that is a shortened shock....

 

hmmm, i got red x's.

 

thats those cheap 63dollar per set monroe shocks that the air ride guys use. i stripped the threads on the top of my stock shocks from removing the nuts many many many times doing different installs and swapping out rear strut tower bars. I couldn't rethread the stock shock threads anymore.

shorter shock isn't going to lower it anymore then a stock one....only the spring and perch would. As i said..the stock shock has enough travel still.

 

How much are the kunis? (is that right, the yeller ones)

 

200 plus per pair. the monroes are smooth as silk and can be had at any NAPA dealer for less then 1/3 that cost. Koni yellows should be used only if your going to compete in some way over a stock or monroe...not worth the cost.

 

Jeff,

I'm not trying to nit-pick your posts, but I feel there is something I should point out. Let me first say, I am not an engineer, nor a suspension expert. Just a novice enthusiast who has picked up a little bit of info along my customization journey.

While Toyota surely has very good reasoning for separating the rear shock and spring, they do not act in the same manor as the Civic suspension. As most of us are fully aware the Civic has a completely different rear suspension design than the xB. The spring and shock ratio's mentioned in your post about the Civic suspension are a result of their location relative to the lower arm of the independent wishbone suspension.

The spring being further inboard creates the higher 1.7:1 ratio compared to the further outboard 1.1:1 shock. The springs can be moved inboard for better clearance and spring rate adjustments made to accommodate the higher ratio. The shocks outboard location is best so that dampening (both compression and rebound) are reacting as closely as possible to what the wheel is actually seeing.

Because the xB uses what is essentially a solid rear axle these ratios are not introduced in the same way. Any ratios produced are created by the rear suspension of the xB have very little to do with inboard and outboard. The ratios in our rear suspension are produced by the relative position of the coil and shock fore and aft along the torsion beam.

Because the coils are pretty much in line with the center of our wheels they are essentially employed in a 1:1 ratio. Without the actual position and distance to the hinge point of the torsion beam I can't give you an actual number. The shocks position further back produces a ratio probably somewhere around 0.9:1. Not a huge difference to you or me, but enough for an engineer to sit down and do a little math.

So even though both the Civic and the xB must have their coils and dampers tuned independently, they have to approached in two completely different manners. The ratios of the spring and damper are essentially swapped from one design to the other, but they are far from inverse. The difference between the coil and damper on the civic is pretty substantial. On the xB, not so much.

So what if Toyota, or some aftermarket company decided to place their coils in the same location as the shocks? Well, because the difference is so small it probably wouldn't make a huge difference, depending on how you used your xB. The new location would require a lower spring rate compared to the stock location. It may be fine for an unloaded box, but as you add weight (people, stereo equipment) you could begin to see issues.

So while I agree with the premise of the original post by Jeff about isolating the coil from the damper, I disagree with the comparison to the Civic suspension. And if you made it through all of that, I congratulate you. I know it probably wasn't a very fun read.

 

agreed. what more can i say? lol

my actual intension was to show the seperation of shock and spring to use the long stroke shock. If i implied they are the same suspension setup? i didn't mean to do that...because they obviously are not. What i will stand by though...is the pivot point of the lower arm toward the center of the chassis...of an independant suspension on the new Si Civic is definitely a better design ...but the torsion beam also will flex as it should keeping the 2 designs not that far apart from one another. Lets face it....

you put a super stiff sway bar on the rear of both vehicles? indendant suspension or not they will act even more similiar. Also...when manufacturers of coilovers put together kits...they aren't necessarily looking specific at the vehicles design...they are simply doing a valving for sometimes even a standard length coilover shock they have used before. So yes...it bolts up propersly and it has a spring rate they feel is either performance or comfort oriented. A few things i will give progress ...its comfortable, it handles extremely well, its versital, drop is substantial, and its not expensive at all.

Thanks for the claification.

Jeff

 

Yeah, i seriously doubt Lip meant to compare the Si to the Xb, because everyone knows if anyone tried to compare the two then...

But RTon20s, coming from honda and having the most experience with them compared to toyota or other car manufactures. I will say your post was very much so accurate. I'd say you know more than you think you do...We all can still learn so much, so yeah.