I've been pushing my XA hard the last week driving up and down a mountain every day. Started noticing understeer getting alot worse, front end rise on acceleration, and the braking losing it's stuff. Also has alot of road vibration, loose handling, wandering now.

Knew the problem was toe-in going wide, and had that checked and adjusted at a Scion dealer yesterday. Tech didn't find anything wrong, and the toe went WAY out (car has 33k miles so far). Now the wheel is slightly off-center (grrrrr) so I have to take it back in next week, but the adjustment did not fix the issues at all really.

Thinking all my late braking, power-on steers, downshifts for engine braking, etc may have bowed the chassis some - and I need a chassis check. Anyone have some thoughts on this? To be as layman as I can, it drives like it was jumped and landed - and it just changed up on me last week.

Thanks again - awesome forum and some great input. Peace

 

hows your struts and shocks doing?

 

I would check every thing down to the last nut and bolt on the suspension at all four corners. Something may have went out of whack that the dealership missed. As far as the chassis being out of spec I doubt it, unless you hit something or you bottomed out. I really wouldnt be able to really give you any specific component to check unless I were to actually see the car.

 

Thanks for the replies, it's driving me nuts! Good question on the struts and shocks, at 33,000 miles I'd hope they'd have plenty left.

Bounce tests really don't work on struts until they are absolutely shot IMO and these still keep solid over bumps.

I do have a set of TRD struts, springs, and the front upper brace, just been waiting for the right time to put 'em in. If I can find the problem in the car, and get that straight I'll have them swapped. (I've been looking for a good excuse *grin*)

bB - good sound advice, thanks for that. I was hoping the NCP61 chassis didn't have an inherent weakness somewhere as it seems like a solid car.

I haven't hit anything or bottomed, but the gravel road I drive to the house is rough and the OEM 17's and 40's don't help it much. As soon as the factory tires wear out, I'm switching out to 16's for a little more give in the sidewalls.

On that bB - I have a question - the Toyota/ Scion dealer that goofed my toe adjustment (they took it all on one side and now my wheel is off-center - I'll see them again Monday and get that straight) quoted labor on the struts/ springs/ brace at $650. To me, that seems high as a kite - what's your take on that one?? I won't quote you or print it, I've just got to know....

Thanks again, I'm having everything checked through this week as I have no garage and gravel out front LOL. BTW how's SoCal these days - I'm a native :-) transplanted to GA.

Peace!

 

Now, i know this isnt going to help you resolve your problem, but it might help you to avoid it next time.

Why would you steer while the car is on power?? This is a front wheel drive car and all that causes is pushing!! I just dont see the point. Its not going to help you carve the corner any faster and you should only put the power on the apex and track out.

When you downshift, DONT USE THE ENGINE!!!! Its called heel and toe, learn how to do it. The point of heel and toe braking (besides it sounding cool) is to keep the car in balance while you down shift, you are wasting your engine and clutch. When you use your engine, all the weight gets transferred randomly around the car and your not putting the weight of the car down evenly on all four tires, which is crucial in cornering. Unless I misunderstood what you said and your already heel and toeing.

Late braking is FINE!!! I love it, these cars have excellent brakes so USE THEM!! Dont use your engine, you wanna stop quicker buy pads, lines and fluid.

 

the only time i engine brake is in the snow

 

Things are getting a little lost in translation here. Unless you want to coast for an eighth of a mile, you absolutely have to steer with power on at times (or maybe climbing a mountain??!). This does not cause the front end to push, as it is a FWD car - the power will help to pull the car through the curve (or up a mountain and avoid getting rear ended).

Now I will say that applying power to the wheels will affect a weight transfer rearward, that is for sure, and that will alter effective steering. However there is a balance that has to be achieved there to keep the car moving up the incline in an area that has virtually no straights for over 5 miles longer than about 20 feet.

As far as engine braking..... unless you ride around with the clutch pushed in, and downshift to first when you stop, you will always have engine braking when coming off throttle at higher rpm.

I don't have to heel and toe in most cases because my size 12's bridge between pedals in almost any vehicle (unless it's a Class 8 truck). But I do run the brake and throttle with the right foot at the same time, and it is the same setup as heel and toe. This will always, and I mean always, save your clutch and gearbox trouble. In the case of much older cars I've owned and driven hard, some just don't shift without it (as they lack the synchronizers of a modern manual box).

And you are absolutely right about late braking, I've always used it as a way to plant the weight on the front end to get better turn-in. One of these days I will definitely install better pads, braided lines, and I have my fluid replaced every 3 years or 30,000 miles which hasn't happened yet - I need to find a shop in this area that is more than a place where some guys keep some tools!

Thanks for the reply - it could definitely help someone.

 

To be honest save yourself the $650 and do the install yourself, all you need are basic hand tools that you ought to keep on hand even if you're not a grease monkey like myself. I wouldn't be able to compare the prices for you since I was recently let go from the dealership (Thanks to our great economy). I do installs for my friends and I wouldnt charge over $100 for a shock and spring install on the xA/xB because its so damn easy. Theres a great write up on here, I'd post the link but I'm too lazy to do the search. Good luck figuring out the problem, keep us posted.

 

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20769
That's for the springs, looks like you can use it for the struts and shocks too though.