killerxromances

You can feel a 5whp increase in a light car like the box. Also, i autocross and road track. I know others do too.

No one is stressing about it, we are just trying to provide information for the fact nothing has changed except the SAE ratings.

Cya

djct_watt

You guys mention HP lies, but the only LIE in this thread was from that dealer. . . what utter BS!!!!!!!!!! I hope you never do business there. That's a classic example of a STUPENDOUS Toyota salesman. . . constantly striving to be at the bottom of dealership satisfaction surveys and lists. . .

killerxromances

Actually, they could have been misinformed. If its the same dealership i'm thinking of in raleigh, than they do great business. Infact, they were rated top in NC, and the sales person that sold me my Xb knew what he was talking about.

Cya

TheScionicMan

Technically, HP isn't measured. It's derived by formula using torque and RPM...

killerxromances

^ ^

Yep.

Cya

djct_watt

True true. . . but I've run into MANY "misinformed" dealers. . . especially Toyota dealers. But hey, I've never met your dealer. R&G Toyota of Marin told me that the Celica GT-S had a top speed of 160MPH. . . and that he had personally done it. What a load of bull.

djct_watt

Just curious, but technically you could measure HP, could you not? Torque is a measurement of force. HP is a measurement of force (well torque) over time. Torque alone does not equate to HP. . . it's the application of time (measured in RPM) AND torque that produce HP.

I believe it is a common misconception that torque ALONE creates HP. . . because it doesn't. Sure you can't have HP without torque, but it is possible to have torque and no horsepower. It's the fundamental reason why Honda's make any power whatsover. . . it's because the reach rediculous revs, and revs are part of the equation. It's also why a torqueless .6L motorcycle motor can produce high HP at 12,000RPM.

djct_watt

And to answer the original question, I think the standard way they measure hp is to calculate at the crank or the flywheel. . . I forget. However, we actually put more power to the ground than. . . say echo's, despite having the same amount of power at the motor. It's the only logical explanation why we are faster, yet we are heavier (well, for xA's anyway).

Shorter gearing means torque and HP are multiplied more. And when you add gearing, HP becomes more important, as the time in which you produce can apply your torque is crucial. Imagine a fishing contest between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Lance Armstrong. It's not how hard you can crank the wheel, it's how fast (torque/revs).

It's also why you see all racing application motors having extremely high rev tolerances.

killerxromances

Unfortunately you are correct, but being i've personally been to this dealership i know that the guys i've talk to actually know what they are talking about. Infact, they are probably one of the most truthful dealership staff i've been to. Then again, i've only actually talked to and hung out with three from that dealership. So i can't speak for all of them. But they do have some great employees.

Tq alone doesn't create hp, but from what i understand its in the element of figuring hp numbers. If that makes sense, i need coffee i could think more then.

Cya

Sciond

^yep going for coffee too...

djct_watt

Yeah, I posted it in my series of posts, but HP = TQ/time. . . time being measured in revs/second.

I hate how car dealers focus only on HP, but I hate how people can have the misconception that torque is the only thing that matters, as that is FAR from the truth.

killerxromances

Yeah, tq and hp need the other to make a difference. Not just tq and not just hp.

Cya

emiller

Wow this went on a long time. The car is exactly the same. This years and last years make the same power. Its just measured differently. Just like in the 70s when they changed from gross to net. They just made a more real world way of testing. I believe before you could sorta cheat by using different gas and oil. Now you have to run what the manual says.

killerxromances

Um, you are a little late. We have already discussed the tq/hp measurement issues. Catch up miller, catch up! jk

Cya

emiller

I cant help it. Either way how many times is this going to come up?

killerxromances

Too many to count, .

Cya

djct_watt

Just curious, what is with the Cya? Is it part of your sig? Is it your name?

killerxromances

Its not my name, unless my name is Czech Yohak Alian.

Don't underestimate the "Cya", its powers is amazed throughout 138 countries around the world, and 15 different isolated islands in the middle of the atlantic.

...Its just a friendly "until next time" kind of thing, if it bothers you i will make it bold.

Cya

djct_watt

No. . . just curious why you use "cya." Doesn't bother me at all. It sounds more like "goodbye" than "until next time." But I'm not criticizing, I was generally curious.

killerxromances

Haha, i was kidding. Well, until next time, goodbye, talk to you later, all these pretty much sums up my reasoning for Cya. Its what you make of it i suppose. You probably weren't the only one that wanted to ask me, secrets out.

Cya