Oh, I did want to reply as to why I used a TRD emblem on the steering wheel pad....

The raised plastic Scion oval presented a bit of a problem as it is pin-mounted into the air-bag cover and recessed. It was not possible to remove the emblem completely from the recess as the pins are melted flat from behind the pad and the air-bag prevents a rear access.

The only Toyota ovals I could find presently are too heavy/bulky to surface mount and completely cover the recess. I was concerned that if I used full 3D badge casting like the covered cast-aluminum ones I have on the grille and hatch, that these might pose an added risk (like detachment) upon air-bag deployment.

The TRD oval is of light-gauge stamped aluminum sheet with a 3M pad on the back. It was as close to something that says "Toyota" on it* that would cover the recess, be less likely to detach or pose any additional risk in case of airbag deployment, and mold to the shape of the pad so as to look like it belonged there. (*It is spelled out on the bottom in red letters.) My preference would have been to be able to completely remove the OE badge, grind down raised areas in the recess flush, coat the "wound" with a thin layer of vinyl repair and substitute a chromed plastic Toyota oval. But because of the airbag, that was not possible without risking compromising the bag. Alternately, a stamped-alu. version of a same-sized oval in the Toyota "rings" would have been preferable over the TRD.

However, since the xB's 1.5l VVT-i engine is afterall a product of TRD engineering, and a variety of TRD logo's are a common site on Toyota Tacoma and Tundra work-trucks everywhere, it is not on a par with marking the car as a F&F wannabe as if I had put TRD 3' tall graphic's, visors, and decals all over the exterior.

If someone knows of an online source where I could get a self-stick stamped alu. badge like the TRD one in the plain Toyota rings, I would be sincerely interested.

Thanx

 

If you really want to change the image of the car, put a Lexus or Mercedes badge on it. Others have done it and no one knows the difference, 'cept us.

 

If you talk to a car-conscious young person today and ask them which car companies are "cool," they'll tell you VW, Mazda, Honda, and to a lesser extent Mitsubishi and Subaru. Toyota has an image of being boring, suburban, frumpy, and unexciting. The Scion name was created to be hip, urban, and cool so Toyota could keep selling cars after the Baby Boomers stopped buying them.

They've played their cards right. The first time I picked up a copy of the Scion Magazine/catalog I immediately noted how well it was marketed. The cover art was done by an internationally popular graffiti artist, and the best street artists in the world were given space inside. Up and coming rap acts were featured. The whole package had the air of authenticity that every product geared at the 16-30 age bracket needs. As we can see, all the marketing in the world didn't really help that much.

I don't "espouse a unique brand concept." I made my decision based on the same things you did: value and utility. However, let's face it: I am Scion's target demographic. However, when it comes down to it, I don't believe anyone buys a car specifically because of the marketing. I think most people are smart enough to recognize value and quality when they see it. I might be assuming people are smarter than they actually are, I don't know.

Anyway, it's your car- do what you want with it. It doesn't matter to me if you slap an 8" mercedes star on the back.

 

:oops: Aw shucks... You got me there! I was tempted very briefly to engage in a bit of whimsy and put Mercedes badges on it. I am the President of an international Mercedes club and the guys would have gotten quite a chuckle if I had tried to pass it off as an "X-Class" Benz! Even a number of my long-time customers would have enjoyed the humor. (Oh and before anyone tries a bit of amateur pop-psych and suggests that I am either a snob who thnks that Scion's are beneath me or that I can't cope with driving an econo car, you should look at the list of current cars in the "How old are you and what other cars have you owned thread". I have everything from very ordinary beaters to prize-winning show-cars in my current stables, so I am very well-adjusted as vehicles go... I'll thank you very much *chuckle*)

However, all joking aside... I really like Toyota's. I think they build a hell of a car for what they charge for them. These Scion's are just more proof that these fellows know what it means to build a better mousetrap. I suppose the longer I talk about it, the more I'll have to admit that I'm too damn proud of the Toyota underneath to want to hide it under a basket... er uh... I mean obscure the Toyota under a (Scion) badge.

I think telling the world what it truly is : A Toyota! is plenty respectable and high-class enough. Toyota is not a brand to be ashamed of (neither of course is Scion actually but...) and plenty of my customers have Camry's or Avalon's parked right next to their other luxury cars. In fact well-off people are rarely frivolous spenders when it comes to necessities and a number of them respect the Honda or Toyota marques as smart investments when it comes to daily transportation.

These xB's are so easy to fall in love with! They may prove to be like the proverbial potato chips in that "you can't have just one!" Who knows, if I start collecting a whole fleet of these things, I might try all sorts of badges!! :D

 

Toyota=Lexus=Scion
Honda=Acura
Nissan=Infiniti
Ford=Lincoln=Mercury=Volvo=Land Rover=Jaguar=Aston Martin etc etc etc

americans wont pay 74,000 for a ford but they will for a Jaguar hmmmmmmmm...

toyota has a car in japan (the name excapes me now) that has AWD, Air suspension, Leather, Massaging seats, all the bells and whistles a BMW 7-Series has but its a toyota there and it would be a Lexus here because americans care about image, and the brand name is key.

well getting back on subject. :oops:

im glad to see all different ages driving these cars. the valus is for everyone and the look is new and hip. im 22 and my first car was a 2001 Ford focus ZX3 because of its look and price and nice motor. then everyone had one. it was a neat ride but i really didnt go anywhere with it. the PT Crusier when it came out had the same reaction. "what that?" "Who makes that car" "it looks neat/cool!" i love my xB because its different like me. i put flyers on all the scions i see in a parking lot and most of the time its people like TorneoDude, laid back, aged and saw the car as an opportunity. i get asked about my xB everyday since i got it. im lookin for a job with Toyota because i can sell them so easily because i told everyone else about them.

Torneo,
your style is different than everyone elses and thats the SCION slogan, "what moves you" thats what makes the car fun. my plan for my xB is to JDM it as close to the Toyota bB as possible without converting it to Right hand drive. Enjoy your ride bro and welcome to Scion!! :D

 

In short, a Toyota version of the xB is a horrible horrible idea. . . most businessmen have read the volumes of books on the HUGE errors of GM, trying to pass off the same vehicle sold by a kazillion different brands. It just doesn't work. Secondly, Scion was created to distance it from Toyota, and attract new buyers. . . adding the xB to Toyota would be counter-intuitive to that goal. Exclusivity is a major appeal to the Scion brand, away from the cookie-cutter Toyota approach. The Scion brand is about being radical, not conservative. . .

In my opinion, and to the opinion of critics, Toyota is already treading mucky waters with Lexus. The ES300 is simply too similar to the Camry, and it downplays the meaning of a Luxury brand. . . even the Highlander does this to an extent. In fact, many RX300/ES300 buyers cross shop between the Toyota versions. This is a major reason why Toyota Corporate decided to make Lexus a global division, and permanently seperate its designers and direction. Within a few years, there is supposed to be a markedly distince difference between Toyota and Lexus. . . after all they don't want to GM themselves.

GM was a great company that made great cars, but business flaws created unnecessary costs into redundant models that appealed to the same market. The costs of designing, testing, manufacturing, and selling a single model is astronomical. . . so the less overlap, the better. Toyota is finally realizing this and is moving in the right direction (as is just about every other brand, including GM).

Just look at how polarized Scion buyers are. . . there is VERY little overlap/cross-shopping between each Scion model, which is VERY difficult to do. I'd be willing to bet that the overlap between the xA and the xB is less than between the Corolla and the base Camry. Considering that both vehicles are based off the same platform and both in the same market, this is phenomenal. . . bottom line, they want to as many different markets and as many different demands as possible, and at the same time have as little overlap as possible.

So if the Toyota market wants an xB, they SHOULD just settle for a Scion. Yes. . . I know a lot of these ideas are contradictory, as is the entire premise, but it makes sense from a business standpoint. It's about balance. All I'm saying is that right now, Toyota leans towards a saturated brand, in terms of overlap, and they would not want to increase that saturation. Whether or not they wanted to, doing so would be a a really bad move.

 

Kinda sounds like you are worried. And I'm not sure what your business is, but I think you're giving the folks in Kingsmill and Ford's Colony a little too much credit. You're assuming that they even know that a Scion is an economy car. I doubt that they would unless you told them.

But even if they do know that, I seriously doubt it would hurt your business. I mean, I've heard that some of the people who live in these gated communities are materialistic and shallow, but if they worried about the kind of vehicle that was being driven by all the people they hired, they wouldn't get much done. And I don't think other business people worry too much about it either. I assume they choose the vehicle that fits the needs of their business.

What about the contractors who drive those filthy vans and trucks? I'm assuming even people who live in Kingsmill have to have their plumbing serviced or their roofs repaired once in a while. If they were really that concerned about appearances and such, it seems like having a nasty van parked in their driveway would bother them much more than having a nice white Scion there. Or is that different? Dirty is okay as long as it's a Toyota (or Ford or GMC or whatever)? Doesn't make sense to me.

I guess I just think that you're assuming that you'll have to defend your choice of vehicle to people, and I don't think that's the case.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't get it . . .

 

lol Great thread I must say. I am 36 bought it because I cant seem to grow up heheh no seriously, I like most am in love with the quirky style that a box can have. I may be over 30 but I still desire a car that is unique.

On topic I would say you may have wasted your money on all the cosmetic changes. One of the absolute best comments I have gotten from some people getting into their mercedes at the grocery store was Hey is that the new A class? Lol I said no its a Scion. They said "A what?" I said "Toyota" they said "Really? It looked so european!!" They stopped getting into their car and came over for a chat. I walked em around the box let them sit in it and play with it. And guess what? The husband was like "this is sooo coool" <- yep the word cool came flowing out of a post 50ish distinguished gentlemans mouth. He asked me how much I told him and he looked at is wife who couldnt stop oooing and ahhhing over it and said what color you want honey?

We exchanged numbers for a different reason then the car, but I got a call last week that he bought one for his wife in Cherry and one in Polar. And the funniest part was he started giggling and said, oh yeah I got em loaded, lights in the cupholders and everything hehehe. If I could have reached through the phone I would have High 5'ed him. Oh if it makes any difference they were drivng a 55 if that helps you gauge their income level.

So I think the perception that a cheap car makes you a cheap person is/may be a in the minds of some but not most. You will see more and more people buying this car for a variety of reasons and not just the young crowd.
Life magazine voted the xb as one of the sexiest cars in 2005
Edmonds voted the xb as most wanted under 15k

Not to mention the fact that 75% of the scion buyers are new to toyota.

Scion is here to stay for sure and I dont think cheap is the first thing people think about when they hear the name. I think style and smart economics

Peace

 

If you care soo much what you customers think, you should have put lexus badges on the front and back.....

BTW, a 2002+ camry se airbag fits nicely in the stock location- Im thinking about switching with my mom's!

I like the toyo emblem on the front- the rear is too busy compared to stock xB! O well - your taste!

 

That's Awesome :D :D

 

The Toyota version needs a contenental tire like the upscale rav4 , roof rack, and projector headlights

 

Geeezzzz....it took a week to read this thread I am 37.......Before I bought this I was considering higher dollar cars..Lexus , Infiniti etc.....None of which excited me. I while smoking cigars a gentleman told me he bought the XB and loved it.... It stuck in my mind.... Then a buddy who sells cars Scion's in his 30's told me to check it out....something clicked..value,cost,reliability, and most of all style. I went and bought the one I test drove my 05 BCP XB....never looked back...I could have bought anything I wanted within reason...I chose my box for what it is and age and nameplate had nothing to do with it. However I think the crux of it all is either you get "it" or you don't..if you don't go buy an Poldsmobuick :D :D

 

So it's not just me. I've been to a few Scion gatherings and each model seems to attract a certain type of buyer. It has almost become a game to guess which model Scion people have purchased. As an xB owner, I feel that tC owners and xA owners have a dramatically different disposition. While we're still a big family, it's nice to see that each car has its own little niche.

 

Look at the poll results. 97% say keep one xB brand.

I don't care what other people think (non-xBers).

We can all do our own mods to remake the xB the way we want it to be.

 

Like many others, I bought the car for it's price, flexibility, and quality.
The fact that it's a Toyota is an added bonus.
Toyota bB or Scion xB, it dosen't matter to me.
:D

 

That post cracked me up. because I know people in Ford coloney and they were pised that the people at the gate let me in with my POS pickup truck.. I'm not kidding. I was even worried when I showed up in my scion, but when I told aunt ardie that it was a toyota, just like her lexus, it was ok.

 

Look im 34 and a proud owner of a XB and now a XA as well im a professional as well nobody cares what you drive as long as it get's you and your clients from point a to point b dont be embarrassed be PROUD to own a scion. toyota baged it as a scion so that they can market it at the price they do , that's the only way it could come into this country at that price otherwise it would be more expensive. JUST remember that all that matters is that you like it nothing else. ENJOY

 

This really has been an unusually amazing thread!

What I really find amazing is how many respondants seemed almost offended that I apparently diss'ed the Scion by putting Toyota badges on it. I was practically accused a couple of times of being insecure or even ashamed of being seen in a Scion.

It is humorous to being labeled a heretic for purportedly trying to "improve the car's image" by putting Toyota logos all over it because I supposedly feel a need to disquise what it is only a "lowly" Scion. I must be obviously very insecure Ha Ha Ha! I have never heard so many negative comments FOR NOT LEAVING IT "Scion-ized" and you think I'm insecure? How is it any different than all the xB's with JDM bB badges that no longer say "Scion"? If I had simply said I think the Scion logo is ugly and I wanted to customize mine a'la "Toyota", I wonder if that would have engendered the same level of vehement defenses for the existance of the entire Scion concept that thoroughly peppered the thread?

To me it seems a blatant denial to feel offended, insulted, challenged, or ague against the fact that the Scion (xB) is simply a weak disguising of the real Toyota underneath, not the other way around. All the arguments for leaving the xB as a Scion could be equally considered a defense for protecting the "images" represented by it; namely individuality and youthfulness. But then that is just a marketing concept and I should be old enough to see through that. Yea, I did. I'm not into the whole "express your uniqueness; buy a Scion". I bought the ideal work van and would have prefered that Toyota not go to such great lengths to suggest that it was something more. The sales figures are irrefutable fact that most of us bought them despite their off-target marketing scheme. We did see past the marketing. But that begs the question, what good was it then?

It is a constant contradiction to keep saying that it is silly to rebadge the xB as a Toyota because it doesn't change it's image when the same people argue for retaining the Scion "image". The Scion "image" is a fiction for the xB. Toyota created it because they thought we, the buyers, would fall for it. Based on some of the defensive comments on this thread, I would say that they were at least partly correct. If it doesn't matter, why be so negative that I put the Toyota back on mine or that Toyota should either drop the xB from Scion or market it simply as a Toyota?

There is no argument to refute that Toyota was trying to create a younger image with all the Scion-izing; IT IS A FACT. A number of the respondants further affirmed this in their posts as well. So, if putting a couple of badges, clear taillights, and some advertising equates the Scion with a necessary younger image to improve marketing, how can it be said that removing these specific manufacturer's "image boosters" had no effect? That can only be true if Toyota's marketing efforts with the Scion weren't that significant as an image builder; if undoing them is that insignificant, then they could not have been that effective to begin with. You can't have it both ways.

Why not put Lexus logos on my xB? Because Lexus is just as much of a contrivance as Scion. Besides, as I already stated before, the xb IS already a Toyota not a Mercedes or a Lexus or anything else. IMO it was pretentious to try to make the Toyota into a Scion with a couple of badges rather than the other way around. It is hardly pretending to be what it already is: a Toyota.



... Uh... are you kidding? The xB... or bB already IS a Toyota! If anyone wanted to disguise anything or try to make this little Japanese Urbanmobile something more than it is... it was in making it part of the Scion triad. If anything, putting Toyota on the outside of an xB is a more honest representation than the manufacturer trying to pass off a Japanese economy car that has been around since 99 as some totally new "hip" car on the American market as if it was especially designed for the young and young at heart. This wasn't some unique NEW anti-cookie-cutter; it is an already existing car repackaged as a new brand- Scion. The xB shape may be unique in the US right now, but this little Toyota already existed and would have been just as "boxy" or "unique" under its true name when it first hit the US shores.

To amend your statement, I would say, it was a mistake for Toyota to further try to "pass of the same vehicle sold by a kazillion different brands." What do you think they did by passing off a Japanese Toyota as some totally unique concept under some new Scion alias? Didn't they just add to the confusion by adding another nameplate? Who has never heard of Toyota? On the otherhand how many times does someone ask us what a Scion is?

If you think Toyota needed to distance itself, I ask distance itself from what? Just because the best-selling Camry, Solara, and Avalon are outside of the price-range of the avg. 20 year olds and the 4runner, Highlander, and Sienna are more for the soccer-mommy crowd doesn't mean that Toyota doesn't have models for a younger market; cars like the MR2, Celica, RAV4, and the Tacoma perhaps? Adding some or all of the Scion models as new Toyo offerings would still have worked; at least in the case of the xB, with no drop in sales- maybe even an increase as long as the current price structure and features were maintained.

I don't buy the argument that they needed to distance themselves from the Toyota name. Scion, as a newcomer with no depth of independent reputation yet, is smoke-and-mirrors; it is nothing without the Toyota heritage, design, and reputation. It was suggested that the marketing was correct even though they attracted mostly older buyers to the xB and missed their target market by an overwhelming percentage. The justification given was that we older folks would buy it even though it was not marketed to our interest but they attracted additional young buyers who would not have bought it as another boring Toyota line. (Does anyone have sales figures to hand as to whether the Neon sales changed as they rebadged from Plymouth to Dodge? It was a youth concept marketed car.)

First of all, if the Scion xB had not been a Toyota built product, I would not have spent the first penny on it regardless of how it looked or what features it offers. If Scion had been a product of Daewoo or Kia or Isuzu or some former East-bloc creation, I would not have been interested. It is precisely because it is a Toyota underneath that I had the assurance that all the great features I see on it now have the backing of decades of bulletproof Toyota durability behind it. Anyone else agree that the Toyota connection made the otherwise unproven Scion more of a sure bet to clinch the deal?

Now, what about the younger generation? Without all the Scion hype 18-30 year-olds wouldn't have been attracted to the xB? It sounds like that is truly selling them short. To state that is to insinuate that all Toyota had to do is slap a different badge on a Toyota to draw youngersters to their product but minus a few Scion badges they would ignore it as a square's ride? I don't believe my own kids are that stupid and a number of young xB owners that have posted in this thread convinced me that they aren't that dumb either! Otherwise, all Toyota has to do for 2006 is to turn the Corolla into a Scion xD with a couple badges to sell it to the younger crowd.

No? Because the Corolla is an existing car that won't "fool" younger buyers into buying it by disguising it as something new as a Scion. Before someone states the obvious here: "You missed the point... The xB is something unique in our market and the Scion pricing and option a'la carte/menu approach IS also special to Scion..." I would point out that those features did not require the formation of a Scion division or special marketing for the xB. The xB is just as unique regardless of what Toyota did or didn't name/badge it when it was introduced to the US market. I think to suggest that our fellow xB owners would be driving Civic's if Toyota had introduced the xB as a Toyota is ridiculous and unsupported by any fact. There is no reason to believe that Toyota could not have offered all the current buyer options like the fixed pricing and the "package eliminating" options menu without establishing an entirely different line. These could have been features unique to these three models.


Besides, enjoy the "uniqueness" factor while it lasts. There are plenty of unusual body-styles that are coming onto the US market. Once the xB has become a more common site, (it has only been here for the 2nd model-year now), they will either be appreciated for all their great qualities or just one more common shape of popular new cars that you see everywhere. Like the PT cruiser or the Beetle that no longer raises eyebrows anymore, it will still be a great car but more "commonplace" after a while. I have already read at least two articles that compared the xB profile to a scaled-down Chevy Astro van. So if anyone is zealously defending the xB's Scion-ness because of it's uniqueness, that is only a temporary condition. It is also not brand-dependent and would still be as unusual or ordinary a shape regardless of how it was named.

The features that make this car an excellent value for the price are what will truly remain regardless of whether or not young people buy the car in droves for years to come or not. When you talk about good business sense, it is not good business to continue to taylor a product to a specific target group when it becomes patently clear that your sales demographics show that you are selling to another group of buyers instead. Toyota is not stupid. No manufacturer continues to advertise a concept that only applies to 30% of its customer base when the other 70% represent a market that is not attracted by that marketing strategy.

If you are selling shavers and 70% are bought by women under 30, does it make sense to keep an advertising geared toward showing how your product cleanly removes the facial hair of the chins of 20 year-old men? Yes some women will still figure that it might be good for legs and underarms but the majority of the buyers will not be made to identify with your product. If you know however that most of your buyers are young women, you will advertise those features that will target even more of them by making your product appear to meet their needs/expectations. You don't continue to tune all your advertising toward getting more men to buy because you figure you already have the ALL the women customers. Instead you devote a smaller portion toward expanding your potential customer base by suggesting an application for your product that exceeds your primary customer base. You do not alienate your primary customer base to do that though. If you know that your shaver appeals to women, you find out why and advertise those features in order to attract more of that crowd.

Does it make sense then for Toyota to ignore the majority of their xB buyers who do not identify with the youth concept and stubbornly continue the current campaign? Who knows how many more older conservative buyers would not go to the Scion dealer because they didn't know (without talking to an owner) that the xB is, as one post said, "A Toyota... like your Lexus... (or Camry)"? Any good salesman knows it is not smart to stay tied up with someone you have to convince to buy while letting the buyer who is already ready to deal walk off the lot.


My belief is that the current marketing suggesting that the xB is a cool car for kids with its primary asset being that it is personalizable with mods to make it cool and individual, is missing the mark. In fact this concept is mostly lost or unimportant to the majority of buyers who were older and impressed with the roominess, quality, economy, and number of other less "exciting" features that make it a very "sensible" car. Toyota should do something to further entice and sell other potential older buyers who have unilaterally recognized a more "traditional" value in the car that has nothing to do with "cool" "youthfulness" or esthetic mods. Again I would say, if the the majority of buyers found these unadvertised and unmarketed features attractive enough to buy the cars, how can anyone say that young folks would not have been attracted by the features that make it ideal for customization for their needs. If older folks could see through the marketing to become the majority buyer, I have every confidence that the younger buyers could have seen through the opposite just as well.


From what I have observed there are two major things that made a car attractive to the younger set: price and available parts for customizing/modifying/personalizing. After that the popularity of body styles varies by era and region. In some areas the CRX and Civic were top choice and others it was small pick-ups like the Tacoma are the overwhelming favorite. Most of the micro cars that are buzzing past with fiberglas body mods, performance upgrades were not marketed that way. The cars just lend themselves to eager young folks who want something to express their personality.

My kids and I agree with the post that said that Scion did a good job relating to their target audience by accurately connecting to popular trends and youth culture. What the sales figures are saying however, is that it is not really working. People outside of this target are the majority buyers and they did not identify with the advertising but bought the xB anyway. Again, sales figures confirm the old "bring a horse to water..." maxim. Toyota knows who is buying and who is not. For Toyota to continue along the present marketing track on the xB* is not good business unless the tide turns. (*It might clarify to state that I can't speak to the xA or tC; I am specifically commenting on the xB.) There is nothing wrong with trying to tap the youth market. Not attempting to connect at all with the more senior market that has demonstrated a strong and mostly unsolicited interest is just foolhardy. One can only imagine what impact a more aggressive solicitation of the primary buying group might do for sales. Currently they are doing nothing to attract more buyers from this market. That is hardly one man's unsupported opinion; it just smart business.


In the end, this is all just good talk afterall; certainly nothing to take too seriously. What the big boys in charge decide won't be up to us, so it is just a chance to blow a little smoke. There are obviously a lot of passions and opinions out there; the makings of a good thread.
We are probably the wrong people to have polled on this question anyway; we already have our xB. It also has absolutely no effect on those of us who have already decided that the xB is the car for us. Mine will always be simply a Toyota to me. I think that is good enough. I am perfectly secure and well-adjusted with my Toyota regardless of the jeers from Scion owners who think I'm either a silly ___ who has a hang-up for names or that I just spit on the Flag by taking the Scion badges off.

I have enjoyed ALL the comments and even got a few good chuckles at the jabs!

Thanks for contributing! Peace!

 

man that was long. . . and you can't cross int'l borders. . . japanese markets are japanese markets. The bb is only a bb in Japan. . . as is a Celsior, as is an Aristo, as is a Harrier. A Toyota Celsior would never fly here.

I wasn't deliberately trying to offend you. . . just trying to firmly state that it is a very bad idea

 

It's not that people have a problem with Toyota itself, it's that the brand image doesn't appeal to younger buyers, and data proves it. They are simply trying to tap into a market that they once owned and now lost. Buy creating Scion, they are using a ploy, a business scheme, to win over this lost market. Don't forget that the Echo, Corolla, and Celica are still in the same technical class as Scion, but are aimed at different markets. And furthermore, if they too closely blended Scion with Toyota, they lose the main objective of the company.