I am 37 years old and had the Scion xB been called a Toyota xB I would not have bought it.

The styling is what attracted me to the car, but it fits my lifestyle perfectly. I need a car with exceptional fuel efficiency, comfort and cargo capacity and the Scion xB hits on all counts. My secondary criteria were reliability and low maintenance. It was built by Toyota and they do have a great reputation, and the service manual indicates that for at least the first 100K miles the worst I can expect is valve adjustments and spark plug replacements. In short, it is the perfect car for me.
I saw my first Scion up close at a Wendy's some months ago. If it had a Toyota badge on it I would not have given it a second thought. The Scion badge caused me to to do some research into the company and I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was essentially Toyota.
I think there are other cars out there that would also have made a good choice for me, but the Scion badge is what started it for me. I also like distinctiveness, and the xB was originally designed for the Japanese market, and all they did was move the steering wheel and rebadge it. In fact there is not another car built for the US market with the angles and lines of the xB with the exception of the Hummer H2. Had I not done the research into the Scion brand I would not have found this out, and I would have probably settled for a good used car, which was my original plan. [/b]

 

Just look at Honda dealers, and their respective market share, and where that market demographic is. Toyota may outsell Honda, but it is a fact that Honda OWNS the younger import market, even though the cars they offer are nearly identical in what they have to offer. It's simply a matter of marketing/branding (like Gap, Old Navy, and Banana Republic all being the same company, and offering similar styles, especially between Gap and Old Navy). I'm a firm believer of the strategy of keeping brands that are clearly seperated, and blurring the lines simply defeats the point of creating the brand in the first place. Perhaps the Echo was just ugly, perhaps not. . . but it thouroughly failed in sales, being extremely similar in content and value to the xB/xA. Mileage, price, practicality, reliability, interior room, it's all there in a conservative sedan body. Scion is kicking major butt in terms of hitting sales goals, and I so no reason from a business standpoint to blur the lines or risk any kind of dent to that success. I firmly believe that any potential gains in sales in adding an xB to Toyota would be drowned by the sales losses to Scion, which translate to losses to the parent company. I firmly believe that this is very very very clear from all data, research, and historical accounts. . . but this is all business theory/history, so you are free to disagree. Yet from a business standpoint, again I'm not mocking you or your intelligence as the idea is plausible, I think that adding an xB to Toyota is a laughable idea at best, and would not appeal to anbody in Toyota Corporate in a higher managerial position. "Don't fix what ain't broke." Scion is a success. . . no need to tamper with their approach/strategy.

 

Not sure if it has been covered but we most of us know that there are shady Toyota Salespeople. They'll say one thing, then something, etc. They'll start saying "if you dont buy this car, I wont have enough money to feed the family" . They are not upfront. With Scion, most of the Scion salesforce I've experianced are pretty much upfront with the info. They dont have this "here comes another sucker, let's lure him in" as those found on some Toyota dealerships. However this aspect of PROPER customer sales service still needs to be worked on for Scion. There are still issues with certain dealerships and salesperson who sell Scions. It has not reach to the same levels as the Lexus sales team.

BTW, I can easily see a person who has a lot of money driving an xB up to a posh country club filled with RR, Bentleys, MB, HUMMER, etc. And smiling happily while handing over the keys to the valet.

 

I'd say it's not exclusive to Toyota salepeople, it's practically an industry standard.

Having an xB and bB competing against each other wouldn't be good, especially considering that Scion has pure pricing. They would play the same old games and Toyota would just sucker price them and then add stuff on...

The way I see it is people have become too reliant on the dealers to do these things that often will be done as good or better by an aftermarket company. Many times the dealer just sends it to the professionals and marks it up for you. I don't want the added costs of providing a leather option, for instance, to affect the lower price I got from the mono-spec business model.

Just because a bunch of us old fogies bought a Scion doesn't mean that their marketing campaign is a bust. The fact that the median age is low means there's a bunch of young folks buying them too - and that's the goal of the Scion brand.

They aren't trying to make Scion a volume mover. For instance, for every tC that they build, they lose a powerplant that could've been used in a Camry. They can slap the cars together all day and night, but they have a finite supply of engines/trannys coming in. They sell a ton more camry's than all 3 Scions combined and I bet they have a higher profit margin, but they know that Scion will pay dividends in the future...

 

I feel like I read a dictionary.....sad part is I will never get those minutes back.....bottem who the heck cares...people buy what appeals to them

 

I will be the dumb one to say it....

Lexus Version, Full Leather, Sunroof Hid, Nav system, Heated Seats, an a Ginnie Pig instead of a Hampster for an engine.

HE HE HE.

I would love to be decked out like a Escalade or the Big Lexus SUV and still get 30mpg.

 

Great responses Guys! Keep up the good work!

I have been giving alot of thought to your comments about the Toyota nameplate's marketing appeal or lack of it. As I was driving around today, it occured to me that the popularity of Honda's (for example) might less be an effect of youth-target marketing but more along the lines of the ready availability of mod.s and the sheer volume of available cars themselves. If you look at cars like the Accord, Civic, and CRX that have been real popular with young folks, the bulk of them were not bought new but second-hand at a good price. Heck, with the exception of the sporty CRX, I don't beleive Honda did much to promote the Accord and Civic as anything more than sensible transportation. But since these were particularly prolific (high production numbers) cars, they have attracted a huge aftermarket. Both contribute to a readily available car to modify and customize at a reachable price for younger buyers. I don't think that the older 4 door Accords, which were a big fave of the conservative/sensible older crowd when they were new, exuded any cool to attract the younger buyers that seem to have just gobbled them up to mod them as second-hand buys. I think the absence of an image is interesting in that context. It seems that certain cars lend themselves better to re-mold with mod.s to express the individualism and personality of today's youth than others.


The direction of the dealer options on the xB and the cooperative attitude that Toyota has with the aftermarket for this car seems to recognize the significance of this. To be popular with the younger set, you have to have lots of mods available. I suspect that is why Mazda's youth-targeted advertising has failed to unseat Honda as the youth fave; there are many more mod.s for Honda's than Mazda's.

One of my first thoughts when Scion made its debut was that the idea of offering all the mod.s at the dealership might not go over as big as Toyota thought. I could not help but thinking kids are not going to want to use "canned" factory mods and so far it does look like buyers prefer to get their own "upgrades" outside of the dealership. Nothing wrong with the stuff offered at the time of sale but I was thinking of my own son and his friends. They seem less enthusiastic about having customizing details from a pre-selected (read "limited" ) dealer-menu than locating something unique. (We are talking about guys that pay 3x to get the Japanese versions of video games because not being "off the shelf" at every WalMart makes them more special... more "kewl".) Of course additionally, most of the options available at the dealer are available elsewhere (like on eBay) much cheaper too.

As long as Toyota continues to cooperate with the aftermarket and production/sales figures create a sufficient market for xB mods, I think the xB will only increase in popularity regardless of how Toyota choses to market this car.

At the same time, I suspect what makes a car a "sucess" as a youth-fave is probably more of a complex intersection of coincidences as well as planning. Just like you can't plan to make a toy the Xmas rave of the year, it either happens or it doesn't.
There were plenty of well-marketed and designed toys available during the years that the Cabbage-patch dolls and the Tickle-me-Elmo had mothers fist-fighting over them.
Attempts to figure out why and duplicate their success (even with the same product line) failed. No one can really give a definitive answer as to what made children crazy for these toys and ignore others that the manufacturers were sure that had positioned to attract their target audiences.

I suspect that it may be more similar with cars than we think.

What do you think?

 

First off i'll admit i like the changes done to your Scion. The Gold Toyota Emblems look nice with the White paint. What he did was personalize his xB. Its no different that adding some nicer rims, acustom exhaust, etc. As far as changing the xB to Toyota, Its doing fine as a Scion so why change it. If Scion as a whole fails i would like to see it get moved to the Toyota line sort of how the Geo Tracker( the only Geo that actually made it saleswise) became the Chevy Tracker. However it looks like Scion is a huge success so we won't have to worry about that ever happening.

 

30mpg, decked out like an Big SUV, Full Leather, sunroof, Mark Levinson (best OEM sound system, period). . . I think they already have one coming. . . it's called the Lexus RX400h, the hybrid RX330. Good luck getting one, the wait list is about a year, last I checked.

http://www.lexus.com/models/hybrid/index.html

Good idea, but for the same reason I am against a Toyota xB is the same reason why Lexus won't make the Acura mistake and have a sub $29k car. They don't want kiddies riding around in new Lexuses, as they want the brand to be upscale, elite, and exclusive. Acura is often criticized for having "lowly" cars (not my words, and I still like Acuras) such as the Integra, both in its former coupe and sedan bodystyles, when it really belonged in the Honda brand. Infiniti was guilty of this as well; why they chopped off the G20(was offered for a brief period even after the introduction of the G35) the G20, being an upiddy-do-dah Nissan Sentra. I know you were only joking but adding an xB to Lexus is not all that different than adding it to Toyota.

Even Mercedes-Benz is smarter than to mess with it's brand image. . . why they are hesitent to bring the A class here, although that might change. But even then, Merecedez still offers cheaper versions of their cars in their home markets equipped with panzy engines, but they know better than to do that here. In Europe and Asia, an S class can be had with a panzy V6, smaller than the V6's (still an AWESOME car). And many of the other models feature tiny tiny engines that would never sell here. Mercedez sees no reason to create a different brand in the same way Toyota did not in Japan (just changed this year).

Branding works, and historical evidence proves it. . . but it only works when there is a clear seperation and distinction between brands. If you get greedy and try to pass of a Civic as an Acura to satisfy a handful of buyers, your Acura RL's will pay a price in sales because of it. And if Scion's (even though they are very similar) start looking too familiar, kiss the brand goodbye, as either sales will plummet or costs will soar (GM's main problem as a business isn't sales, it's high costs due to redundant brands/models). Our costs are low because we have monospec cars. . . mess with that, and costs increase.

 

There's nothing that makes a guy look older than a looooong, rambling post. I now understand why you'd proudly slap a Toyota badge on an xB.

 

The Xb stands for difference, it is a car that makes all of us who own one feel like we stand out from the crowd, it makes us feel special when people stare at us, wether in disgust or shock. It is a pride that is fragile, if there was another car that looked like ours, it would not be as fun to own one, even if it were from the same car company in reality. It is a mental thing not a visual thing. I dont want my Xb confused for a Toyota, it is so much more fun explaining what a Scion is.

SirScion
Polar White XB 2005

 

Although I feel this guy got grumpy on me for my comments, don't comment on his age like that. . . it's not cool man. Gotta have respect for the older guys too, as we'll be there in a moment's notice.

I don't so much have a problem with xB's being sold to other demographics, I just disagree about an xB Toyota being a good idea. I think it's counterintuitive to every measure of sound business practice, and in the end, I want Toyota Motor Corp to be profitable (so they can keep making better, cooler cars for competitive prices). Scion's mission is to be different, it shows in every way. Playing risky games with brands, especially this early, is asking for problems, historically speaking. I want to write more, but I think I've already repeated the same things like 20 times.

 

If you're not "ashamed of being seen in a Scion," why in the hell did you make it a toyota in the first place?

 

Then again, you don't know how old I am, do you?

 

I bought my xB to comute in. Funny thing, both the Matrix and xB are targeted towards the "younger" market of 18-25, and here I am at 40! Well, I bought the Xr abd xB in my late 30s.

I guess I'll never grow up. I've been modding Toyotas since 1982 when I graduated high school.

 

Sorry, I just kinda assumed. . . I get real defensive of the geysers (my dad is very old, but can still hold his own). Not that you were being extremely rude or anything, but I just see too many older people get rude treatment from their kids, and if I had it my way, I'd beat those kids senseless. There's no more respect for age and experience anymore in this day and age, you feel me?

 

YUP! I used to see it everyday when I was working.

 

Agreed.

I'm not sure I see how a bunch of mismatched badges and a TRD sticker on the steering wheel makes your car look more mature.

I can see doing a JDM conversion, but this just confuses me....anyway.

I'm 32, so I'm just outside of the age group Toyota was shooting for, but who cares?

IMO a mature adult shouldn't care one way or the other what people think about the kind of car they drive. If you do, buy something non-descript like a Camry and be like everyone else, or get a book on self-esteem and drive whatever you want and be proud of it.

I didn't buy my Scion because it's PHAT or DOPE, I got it because underneath the Gen-Y Anime cartoon wrapper, it's really just a practical little Toyota wagon which is all I freakin wanted in the first place! :D

As far as your poll, I think you missed the point Toyota was aiming for. The entire point of Scion is to attract younger buyers to Toyota products while remaining as seperate as possible from the decidedly un-hip Camry type products. They don't want to remind the kids with 6 piercing and 4 tattoos of their Dad's Highlander. get it?

See...

Toyota does not want you and I to buy a Scion, they are too inexpensive.

They want me to buy a Matrix XRS or a Celica, or possibly an IS300 (since I went to college)

They want you to buy a 4Runner or a Lexus RX330.

Demographics....marketing......

It's just how it works. Toyota spends millions to figure out PRECISELY who they need to market which products to and how. The handful of people that fall outside the norm don't really have any influence on their decisions, nor should they.

You went ahead and bought an xB anyway, the lack of a Toyota badge wasn't enough to stop you.

 

BTW, they do make an "xB for Grownups" but they don't sell it here.

I wouldn't mind one of these, too bad they would not sell well in the land of big and macho SUV's.





There's even an uber-practical 1.4 liter turbodiesel option.

 

Question: what the hell is the point of this thread?