Notices
Scion xB 1st-Gen Owners Lounge
First Generation 2004-2006.5 [NCP31]

Removal of airbox snorkle-BIG MPG! UPDATE 4.0!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 9, 2008 | 04:02 PM
  #481  
pooder's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 649
From: Rochester MN
Default

Originally Posted by Reactor
Since the amount of gas injected into the engine is always proportioned to the amount of air going in, which is determined by the throttle plate opening, would not the gas consumption be ultimately decided by how hard you are pushing the gas pedal?
I believe that is correct.
Old Jul 9, 2008 | 05:01 PM
  #482  
HeathenBrewing's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,457
From: Earth
Default

Originally Posted by pooder
Sir, I believe you misspoke (mistyped? ;^) here. For optimal combustion, the ECU tries to keep the air-to-fuel ratio the same all the time, I believe. So when there is more air, the ECU will add more fuel; and when there is less air, the ECU will add less fuel. Or am I mistaken . . . ?
You sir, are (mostly) correct.

To be technical, the ECU dictates the amount of fuel used as it relates to the amount of O2 in the air. Since warm air has less O2, the ECU reduces the amount of fuel. The stoich mix (for arguments sake, lets say its 14.7:1 O2 to fuel ratio) is always maintained by the ECU.

So cold air = more O2 = more fuel used.
warm air = less O2 = less fuel used.
Old Jul 9, 2008 | 05:11 PM
  #483  
HeathenBrewing's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,457
From: Earth
Default

Originally Posted by Reactor
Since the amount of gas injected into the engine is always proportioned to the amount of air going in, which is determined by the throttle plate opening, would not the gas consumption be ultimately decided by how hard you are pushing the gas pedal?
Mmm....well, its not that straight forward, but you are basically correct. It is a looooong answer, which I do not currently have time for, but search terms like "pumping loss(es)" and/or "throttle plate", "stoich mix" along with "WAI" if you want to do some reading up on it.
Old Jul 10, 2008 | 12:23 AM
  #484  
pooder's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 649
From: Rochester MN
Default

Originally Posted by HeathenBrewing
Mmm....well, its not that straight forward, but you are basically correct. It is a looooong answer, which I do not currently have time for, but search terms like "pumping loss(es)" and/or "throttle plate", "stoich mix" along with "WAI" if you want to do some reading up on it.
Thanx for your answer; I did some Googling, and I believe I understand what's going on inside my internal combustion engines a little better. Goes to show ya; we're never too old to learn . . . .
Old Jul 10, 2008 | 12:24 AM
  #485  
HeathenBrewing's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,457
From: Earth
Default

Originally Posted by pooder
Goes to show ya; we're never too old to learn . . . .
Amen brotha!
Old Jul 10, 2008 | 12:56 AM
  #486  
bmph8ter's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 297
Default

Originally Posted by BayAreaScion
Does not having the snorkel void the warranty? I'm sure it would, but anyone doing this get an earful from the dealer for doing it?
It shouldn't. Dealers do try and bluff crap sometimes but just stand your ground. And plus, how could they say missing your snorkel caused your tranny to go out?
Old Jul 10, 2008 | 07:32 AM
  #487  
Winter's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,414
From: Tacoma, WA
Default

Originally Posted by bmph8ter
Originally Posted by BayAreaScion
Does not having the snorkel void the warranty? I'm sure it would, but anyone doing this get an earful from the dealer for doing it?
It shouldn't. Dealers do try and bluff crap sometimes but just stand your ground. And plus, how could they say missing your snorkel caused your tranny to go out?
wind forces pushing them selfs into the intake caused the transmission gears to rattle loose and start grinding... OR... your syncros are shot and you need a new set... but my money is on your intake snorkel not being there.























Old Jul 10, 2008 | 10:39 PM
  #488  
Super-Stormtrooper07's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 913
From: In Detention block AA-23!
Default

Originally Posted by Reactor
Since the amount of gas injected into the engine is always proportioned to the amount of air going in, which is determined by the throttle plate opening, would not the gas consumption be ultimately decided by how hard you are pushing the gas pedal?
partially, yes... from what I understand.
Old Jul 11, 2008 | 11:03 AM
  #489  
Jan06xB's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,971
From: Tiverton, RI
Default

It is a function of the engine RPM, the amount of air flowing past the MAF Mass Air Flow Sensor, the temperature of the intake air, the temperature of the engine (coolent), The position of the throttle plate and the change in position of the throttle plate if the gas pedal is moving, the readings off the two Oxygen sensors in the exhaust, Intake valve timing (VVTi), and finally if the AC is running or not.

That's what we mean when we say it is complicated.
Old Jul 11, 2008 | 01:27 PM
  #490  
tCscotty's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 532
From: Southern Wisconsin
Default

For people that are worried about removing the snorkel and having the bottom of the air box exposed. I've found that the snorkel from a stock tC air box will fit. Its shorter and the opening sits right in front of the battery.
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 12:39 AM
  #491  
HondAudio's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 598
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Default

Originally Posted by tCscotty
For people that are worried about removing the snorkel and having the bottom of the air box exposed. I've found that the snorkel from a stock tC air box will fit. Its shorter and the opening sits right in front of the battery.
Pics?
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 12:43 AM
  #492  
HeathenBrewing's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,457
From: Earth
Default

Originally Posted by tCscotty
For people that are worried about removing the snorkel and having the bottom of the air box exposed. I've found that the snorkel from a stock tC air box will fit. Its shorter and the opening sits right in front of the battery.
Or you can do as I and pickup one of these from home depot (first one, top of page):

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

Cost me $1.99 and fits the opening perfectly. I already posted more info (SKU, etc) in this thread, so I wont do it again.
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 12:45 AM
  #493  
HeathenBrewing's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,457
From: Earth
Default

Actually, Im wrong. the one I bought was round, not square like the pic i linked to. but you get the idea.
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 12:51 AM
  #494  
greybox's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,300
From: Lake Oswego, OR
Default

Ram air dryer hose-it's the bomb....
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 12:53 AM
  #495  
eboardracer's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member

5 Year Member
SL Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 359
From: Alki, Seattle, Washington
Default

can this be done with a tc? is so, how?
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 01:26 AM
  #496  
greybox's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,300
From: Lake Oswego, OR
Default

Just look for a place to run the hose so it gets air directly fed and then run as straight as posible to the airbox
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 05:09 AM
  #497  
eboardracer's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member

5 Year Member
SL Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 359
From: Alki, Seattle, Washington
Default

Originally Posted by greybox
Just look for a place to run the hose so it gets air directly fed and then run as straight as posible to the airbox
ya, i wouldnt have a clue how to do that.
Old Jul 12, 2008 | 03:47 PM
  #498  
tCscotty's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 532
From: Southern Wisconsin
Default



I had a stock air box from a tC laying around, so I gave it a shot.
Old Apr 30, 2009 | 04:13 PM
  #499  
biancoxb's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 734
Default

Hate to sound like a noobie (I never messed around under the hood) But could you theoretically remove the whole air box assembly and just stick an intake filter over there? If only that VSV connector wasn't in the way
Old Apr 30, 2009 | 04:18 PM
  #500  
breaux_tC's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
Fresh Crew
SL Member
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,059
From: Memphis
Default

you want to connect a filter to the throttle body?



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:48 AM.