FromTheOld

Engineers specify the tolerances, so the quality control inspector/whatever has nothing to do with this, as this was probably done on purpose. The whole point of an engineer's job is to not only make something that is functional, but to save costs as well, so this loose tolerance idea might have saved costs, but they might have went too far with saving the costs to the point where it affected the function.

xbscion

Fromtheold. Until Scion steps up to the plate and give us the reason for this failure, it could be anybody's guess.

Sounds more like quality control issue than engineering.

FromTheOld

The fix is the piston/piston ring assembly. I think it's an engineering issue, you think it's a QC issue. In the end, the result and fix are still the same.

xbscion

Sounds like a quality issue with their engineers!

The results are the same, yes! Crappy cars are being built and people are not happy with Scions!

Until Scion tells us why there is a problem we wil never know why the problem occured.

If Scion really reads on line posts I'm sure they will want to clear this issue up soon or go the way of General Motors!

FromTheOld

As irritating as it is, there are tons of problems with new cars all over the place, not just Scions anyway. Cost cutting is the reason for this, and with how complicated new cars are getting, it's going to be harder for them to judge how much costs to cut.

xbscion

I agree, Scions have tons of problems, and that's only mine!! lol

Don't know about the cost cutting effecting my problem, but at just over 63k it burns oil, needs a new rear wheel bearing, water pump and ignitions coils have been replace also.

I will still have to try a heavier oil soon and hope it makes it to 100k without Al Gore knocking at my door or not passing state inspection.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

First new car? Expected Lexus quality and service for econobox prices? Expect Scion to replace pistons and rings in every XB2 because they may consume more oil than you think they should? I assume that you've already replaced your PCV valve in order to conclude that your slightly high oil consumption rate is caused by "defective" pistons and rings.

Did you have to get towed to the dealer to have all 4 defective coils replaced? Odd that they all went bad at once. Certainly Scion didn't replace all 4 coils at 63k miles simply because they might fail?

I don't mean to single you out but I'm increasingly annoyed by all the complaints of poor Scion quality and service because someone's XB has some squeeks and rattles at 50k miles that the dealer won't fix for free or the recent Toyota-BBQ over imbecile drivers stomping on the gas pedal instead of the brake and then crying about how their Toyota accelerated out of control.

If you want Rolls Royce quality and service, buy a RR... although they still burn some oil and can't read your mind to determine that when you floor the gas pedal you meant to hit the brake instead...

Again, this is not directed entirely towards you. More of a genreral rant against perfectionists with inflated expectations and value meal budgets.

FromTheOld

Good post. Summed up everything i've felt like saying for awhile (although I may have said it in small little posts already)

To add to this post, a lot of complaints simply come from people who don't know any better (whether it is how to maintain their car or just mechanics/car stuff in general) and just blindly follow another person's complaint. People need to stop getting mad that their parts don't last 500,000 miles.

FromTheOld

I remember reports about that incident too. As far as I remember, the whole gas pedal thing was eventually figured out to be BS. Between driver errors, and people doing it on purpose to try and make money, the one time it happened might have been cause some people stacked floormats.

Giving an answer isn't the problem....it's just that some people here have terrible attitudes. They're either absurdly stupid or absurdly demanding and have a feeling of self-entitlement.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Your profile says that you are 32 but you claim to have been buying econobox cars for 40 years? Just how old are you? I'm very curious about what makes your XB the "poorest quality car" you've ever owned in 40 years. Would you mind elaborating on this? I've been buying cars for 30 years and my 08 XB's overall quality and reliability is well above average in my experience. I've owned this car for over 4 years and logged over 50k miles so far without a single issue. The car has never been back to the dealer or any other shop even once.

As for the piston assembly TSB, I'm not sure what you're complaining about. Is it the fact that Scion changed the excessive oil consumption threshold from 1qt/600 miles to 1qt/1200 miles? I initially thought that you were upset that your XB is consuming 1qt every 3k miles. Which is it?

As for the coil packs, obviously Scion determined that their failure rate exceeded their standards and decided to offer free replacements via TSB. I don't understand why you're complaining about this.

As for the ridiculous claims of Toyotas suddenly accelerating out of control, this is nothing new. It happens all the time with all cars. The first time I remember the media getting their sensationalistic yellow claws into it was with the Audi 5000 back in 1986. It was front page news everywhere and even 60 minutes specially modified an Audi 5000 to grab some rating share. The final investigative conclusion from the NHTSA that every reported case was caused by driver error was lucky to see page 20. Fast forward to 2011 and repeat.

SUA facts:

There are only 3 known causes:

1) Sticking pedal, linkage or throttle plate (no electronic causes known)
2) Floor mat interference
3) Driver error (applying throttle instead of brake)

It's important to note that in causes 1 & 2, vehicle movement can still be stopped by applying the brake even at WOT. Therefore I stand by my assertion that every single case of SUA was, is and always will be the direct result of driver error despite the potential for other contributory factors.

BTW, I've never really liked Toyota or Scion. I've always felt that Toyota makes the blandest, most boring cars on the market. I only bought my XB because it happened to meet my needs at the moment I was looking for a new car and it's quirky styling and practicality appealed to me.

FromTheOld

Never said the low oil level thread had people like I mentioned.....it was just a general comment about the majority of the threads you'll see. Also, I never mentioned that it was okay that its happening.....but the thing is, the reason it is a TSB and not a recall is because it may possibly not happen to all engines. I mean, not that it really means anything, but I'm at 48k miles right now and not a drop of oil has been consumed by my engine yet. Just be patient and see if it escalates into a recall. The current solutions are to check your PCV valve, and to use higher weight oil, or if you're awesome...build your motor

You might question why I'm saying the things I do. I am not a Toyota/Scion fanboy or anything like that. The new Toyotas are boring as hell, and Scions aren't exactly the ideal platform for fun. I'm just someone who's used to working on cars and I'm mechanically knowledgable enough to be fine with whatever happens. I also have an engineering background so I know a thing or two about some of these problems/things. My MK3 Supra was plagued with stuff that was and wasn't my fault (head gasket, etc.) and it just taught me a lot about proper maintenance (they were very sensitive with oil too....).

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

HTF does an engine design produce sludge? I agree 100% with Toyota that excessive sludge build up is the result of poor maintenance. Owners using poor quality oil and filters is hardly Toyota's fault.

Toyota/Scion have already taken care of the potential oil consumption issue via TSB. Are you suggesting that they recall every 2AZ-FE engine (regardless of oil consumption rate) and replace the pistons and rings? Seriously???

Good luck with your lawyer dude, I have a feeling you'll get along great.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

This is my first Toyota, and I guess I'm not clued into how I should evaluate their TSBs and recalls Vs my previous experience. I guess I expect the power-plant to be long lasting, but I have little sense of what that translates into relative to other vehicles. I very much like my xB2, but it's clear it's best I keep my eyes open and be ready to react if something comes up. Is my much earlier car a better quality machine for the money? Maybe (though features are different), but I'm not sure, and the combination of features and capability of my current car is pretty darned impressive (despite it's ultimate imperfection).

Perhaps it's a question of what we compare against?

xbscion

TreverS, you made my day, your line ...despite it's ultimate imperfection!!!!!

Reminds me of the old line..... Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Really did make me laugh out loud!!! Thanks

FromTheOld

Well, you already got the answer. Replace the piston/piston rings, use heavier weight oil, PCV valve. Good luck, and sorry to hear this is happening to your car. It does suck, but there's not much you can do other than jump ship (trade car in) or fix it yourself. I doubt it'll happen within the warranty period (although I'm sure you're past it now, right?)

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I'm still very curious to hear more specifics about the quality issues you've had with your XB that lead you to declare it the poorest quality car you've owned in 40 years. According to J.D. Powers the XB2 is the best in it's class for reliability (5 stars). I think that instead of bashing Toyota and Scion for what you perceive as poor quality on a forum full of satisfied owners, you should focus more on why you're having so many problems with your Scion while others are not.

Using 1 qt of oil every 600 miles is not normal regardless of what you read or heard. Using 1 qt every 1200 miles is still excessive, IMO. Still, if Toyota/Scion did change the threshold from 600 to 1200 miles they did us all a favor and I still don't understand how you think this is a bad thing.

As for the alleged sludge issue, didn't it occur to you that Toyota probably took some responsibility solely to appease people like yourself who actualy believe that a well maintained engine can create sludge build up by itself? Why do you think that Toyota recalled 8 million vehicles in 08 & 09 due to SUA claims even though they already knew that there was nothing wrong with them? Audi lost billions of dollars due to bogus SUA claims in the 80's and although eventually vindicated, they were then sued by litigious scum bags because their Audi's resale value had been reduced. Why do I even need to explain such elemental concepts?

Anyway, the answers are to change your possibly sticking PCV valve, switch to 0w30 or 5w30, use only high quality oil and filters, change them every 5000 miles and keep your unsolicited life advice to yourself. If your oil consumption ever increases to 1 qt every 1200 miles, contact your dealer for TSB repairs and/or trade your "poor quality" Scion in for another '71 Beetle.

xbscion

DAM626a Thanks for the link, the more people that know about this oil consumption problem the better chance of getting Scion to fix it. Looks like it affects not only TC/xB's but the Toyota line with the same engine. Very helpful, thanks!

blmingione

I have a 2009 Scion XB. I have it serviced when required at the dealer where I purchased the car. The car has approx 58,000 and recently the oil light flashed. I took it to Toyota and it was 3 qts low. (I had service and an oil change about 3,000 miles ago). The dealer said they can't find a leak, drive it another 1,000 miles and come back for them to re-check. I have been checking it myself and noticed the reading on the dip stick getting lower. If there is no leak, and no smoke coming out of the exhaust, WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE OIL??

xbscion

blmingione, it sounds like you have bad parts per the TSB Toyota put out a while back. Just dump the car and move on like a lot of xB owners have. People here that haven't had this problem will come to the defense of their xB and tell you that no car is perfect, but this will not help your oil consumption problem.


Really, you probably have bad piston/ring installed when new and it looks like you are at the mileage that it shows up. My xB was doing the same thing as yours so I dumped it while it still had some value.


Good luck!

blmingione

Just want everyone to know I both contacted my Dealer AND called Toyota HQ in CA regarding the factory defective pistons and pistons rings in my 2009 Scion causing excessive usage of oil. THEY REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING because my car is a few months past warranty.
I owned a Chevy in 1972 that blew a head gasket. Although it was out of warranty, Chevy paid half the bill for repair. I owned a Land Rover Freelander and in 2008 the engine "blew". Again the car was out of warranty. LandRover offered to pay half the expense.
TOYOTA WILL DO NOTHING. This is POOR customer service. This is the LAST Toyota I will ever own and I will discourage everyone I know not to purchase one either!