2011 xB (abandon ship!)
03-28-2010, 09:30 PM
#141
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why? you don't like a car with real brakes , and can get out of its own way,, the xb1 sucks,, its a tercel/echo dude... 1.5l with 3 adults in the car on the highway = 60 to 80 in 20 seconds.... the looks were cool, but what a load...
03-28-2010, 09:33 PM
#142
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being in Japan last week, I'll say this....
I know why the QNC bB was not our NCP xB replacement. I still believe the Rumion should have been the the new xB2 and offer two motor options. the 1.8 and 2.4( versus Japans 1.5 and 1.
. the xD should have looked like the JDM ZSP Ist( looks wwaayy better than the xD). There really isn't anything new in Japan to speak of. this american tale of sticky gas pedals has screwed them up bad. But maybe the Auris or Blade would have been a good pick for a hot hatch. Rumion has better lines and would have offered that JDM appeal alot of us like with our xB1's. iQ is a big gamble. I didn't see that many driving around. maybe 2 or 3. damn NCP Ist's are everywhere. more so than the bB there.
and yea, the QNC bB didn't fit the replacment bill. why you ask? it's smaller than our xB1. I almost don't like it after seeing it in person. it's that goofy looking.
but car companies in general don;t offer all their cool models cuz why? Toyota afriad they won't sell Sienna's if they have a Noah/Voxy too? there's a market for everyone. Honda Stream? I'd so drive a RS-Z. but why not offer it? afriad they won't sell CR-V's? dumb.
p.s. Scion DID listen to us. we got a bigger xA, we got a bigger xB and we'll have a bigger tC.
I know why the QNC bB was not our NCP xB replacement. I still believe the Rumion should have been the the new xB2 and offer two motor options. the 1.8 and 2.4( versus Japans 1.5 and 1.
. the xD should have looked like the JDM ZSP Ist( looks wwaayy better than the xD). There really isn't anything new in Japan to speak of. this american tale of sticky gas pedals has screwed them up bad. But maybe the Auris or Blade would have been a good pick for a hot hatch. Rumion has better lines and would have offered that JDM appeal alot of us like with our xB1's. iQ is a big gamble. I didn't see that many driving around. maybe 2 or 3. damn NCP Ist's are everywhere. more so than the bB there. and yea, the QNC bB didn't fit the replacment bill. why you ask? it's smaller than our xB1. I almost don't like it after seeing it in person. it's that goofy looking.
but car companies in general don;t offer all their cool models cuz why? Toyota afriad they won't sell Sienna's if they have a Noah/Voxy too? there's a market for everyone. Honda Stream? I'd so drive a RS-Z. but why not offer it? afriad they won't sell CR-V's? dumb.
p.s. Scion DID listen to us. we got a bigger xA, we got a bigger xB and we'll have a bigger tC.
+1 exactly.... people _____ ,, they give it to them,, then they _____ about that,, people = loco_____es
insert the word beitch, in the _____ ...
03-28-2010, 09:37 PM
#143
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Wasn't saying Scion was a bad buy for the value, just that the competition has caught up. Scion needs to stay ahead of the pack. Easiest comparison is the tC to the Kia Forte Koup:
- HP (171 Kia, 161 tC)
- MPG (34/25 Kia, 27/20 tC)
- Safety (Font, side airbags, abs, tire pressure monitor) Both
- Convenience (Power windows, power mirrors,power locks, keyless entry) Both
- Power sunroof (optional Kia, Standard tC)
- Price ($16.5k Kia, $17.1k tC)
So for an extra $600, you get a sunroof, leather steering wheel, and 18 ft-lbs more torque but with an extra 200 lbs of curb weight. Scion has some nice aftermarket support that the Koup doesn't, and the reliability numbers aren't out yet to compare, though historically Toyota fares much better. However, after personally doing two motor replacements on friend's tC's with only minor mods on them, I wonder about that too.
Bottom line is that the level of competition is rising while Scion is standing still. They will be passed up very soon unless they do something, and the 2011 xB is not going to get it done. I have high hopes for the iQ but with them pricing it over $12k most people will buy a bigger car for less, i.e. Ford Fiesta, Chrysler / Fiat 500, Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, Honda Fit, etc.
Hopefully the new tC answers the mail.
- HP (171 Kia, 161 tC)
- MPG (34/25 Kia, 27/20 tC)
- Safety (Font, side airbags, abs, tire pressure monitor) Both
- Convenience (Power windows, power mirrors,power locks, keyless entry) Both
- Power sunroof (optional Kia, Standard tC)
- Price ($16.5k Kia, $17.1k tC)
So for an extra $600, you get a sunroof, leather steering wheel, and 18 ft-lbs more torque but with an extra 200 lbs of curb weight. Scion has some nice aftermarket support that the Koup doesn't, and the reliability numbers aren't out yet to compare, though historically Toyota fares much better. However, after personally doing two motor replacements on friend's tC's with only minor mods on them, I wonder about that too.
Bottom line is that the level of competition is rising while Scion is standing still. They will be passed up very soon unless they do something, and the 2011 xB is not going to get it done. I have high hopes for the iQ but with them pricing it over $12k most people will buy a bigger car for less, i.e. Ford Fiesta, Chrysler / Fiat 500, Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, Honda Fit, etc.
Hopefully the new tC answers the mail.
03-28-2010, 09:45 PM
#144
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Well said.
I wish people on here realized that the new xB got bigger, rounder and more powerful because of customer and potential customer's feedback.
I've heard it all...
"The xB gen1 is too slow"
"The xB gen1 is too small"
"The xB gen1 is too Boxy"
"The xB gen1 isn't safe enough"
"The xB gen2 gets bad gas mileage, Toyota's stupid for replacing the 1.5L engine"
"The xB gen2 is too big, Toyota's stupid for making the car bigger"
"The xB gen2 is too round and plain looking, the gen1 had more personality"
"The xB gen2 is too expensive, Toyota's stupid, they should have kept it $15k"
This is proof that Scion listens. The problem with listening tho is that half of the customer base is disappointed with every change they make. I appreciate all the enthusiasm though; it confirms that Scion still has it intended market captivated. Just my .02
I wish people on here realized that the new xB got bigger, rounder and more powerful because of customer and potential customer's feedback.
I've heard it all...
"The xB gen1 is too slow"
"The xB gen1 is too small"
"The xB gen1 is too Boxy"
"The xB gen1 isn't safe enough"
"The xB gen2 gets bad gas mileage, Toyota's stupid for replacing the 1.5L engine"
"The xB gen2 is too big, Toyota's stupid for making the car bigger"
"The xB gen2 is too round and plain looking, the gen1 had more personality"
"The xB gen2 is too expensive, Toyota's stupid, they should have kept it $15k"
This is proof that Scion listens. The problem with listening tho is that half of the customer base is disappointed with every change they make. I appreciate all the enthusiasm though; it confirms that Scion still has it intended market captivated. Just my .02
you are the man... i love you!!
exactly...
03-28-2010, 09:52 PM
#145
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just a FYI for everyone who doesn't know...
toyota totally changes there models every 5 years,
2008 - 2010 on the 3rd year for the 4th they will do refinements to make the car look a little different, upgrades, and fix complaints people had.. so the 4th and 5th 2011-2012 ...will be that car.. so for 2013 there will be a newly designed xb...
then a totally redesigned on the 6th year,,,
being with toyota for 20 years it pretty much been that way right along.. the only models that i can say it didnt happen for was the tundra and sequoia off the top of my head really quick.. took 7 years..
toyota totally changes there models every 5 years,
2008 - 2010 on the 3rd year for the 4th they will do refinements to make the car look a little different, upgrades, and fix complaints people had.. so the 4th and 5th 2011-2012 ...will be that car.. so for 2013 there will be a newly designed xb...
then a totally redesigned on the 6th year,,,
being with toyota for 20 years it pretty much been that way right along.. the only models that i can say it didnt happen for was the tundra and sequoia off the top of my head really quick.. took 7 years..
03-29-2010, 02:04 AM
#146
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Posts: 3,152
about that comment about 1.5l acceleration. you need to think ahead. apparently it hasn't been a problem for many years as the Echo has been here for a minute. the too small complaint doesn't add up either. The Yaris 2 door sells like hell. it's tiny. maybe the QNC bB would sell well, but model changing means the replacement has to be bigger.
A GNX would always overshadow a Corvette of it's time. those things were POS's anyway. junk from 1971 to present. whatever happened to the Celica? lemme guess. it was too small, underpowered( read no torque) and a grandma's car anyway. tC did great things for Toyota. but the performance is just ho-hum. I went to the Scion Exposed xB2 release event. at the end of my spirited test drive as i was instructed to do, i was asked how I liked it. I looked at the guy and shook my head. It was like driving a Tahoe. no steering feedback and sloshy. exactly what everyone asked for. so there you have it. I would very much like to see the xD redesigned into the JDM version. the xB2 redesigned into the Rumion and not some ho-hum tC replacement. I'll be watching 3-30-10. all the tC needed was a high compression head to really make it a Celica predessor. but it's always gonna be a touring Camry
A GNX would always overshadow a Corvette of it's time. those things were POS's anyway. junk from 1971 to present. whatever happened to the Celica? lemme guess. it was too small, underpowered( read no torque) and a grandma's car anyway. tC did great things for Toyota. but the performance is just ho-hum. I went to the Scion Exposed xB2 release event. at the end of my spirited test drive as i was instructed to do, i was asked how I liked it. I looked at the guy and shook my head. It was like driving a Tahoe. no steering feedback and sloshy. exactly what everyone asked for. so there you have it. I would very much like to see the xD redesigned into the JDM version. the xB2 redesigned into the Rumion and not some ho-hum tC replacement. I'll be watching 3-30-10. all the tC needed was a high compression head to really make it a Celica predessor. but it's always gonna be a touring Camry
03-29-2010, 03:06 AM
#147
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Scikotics
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The present vettes are junk? What planet are you on ? 
THE best bang for your buck in the high end sports car market these days.. hell, they have to comare the z06 to cars twice the price just to make it fair... a lot of the middle generations were not so hot, but saying the present ones is just nonsense.
THE best bang for your buck in the high end sports car market these days.. hell, they have to comare the z06 to cars twice the price just to make it fair... a lot of the middle generations were not so hot, but saying the present ones is just nonsense.
03-29-2010, 10:26 AM
#148
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The present vettes are junk? What planet are you on ? THE best bang for your buck in the high end sports car market these days.. hell, they have to comare the z06 to cars twice the price just to make it fair... a lot of the middle generations were not so hot, but saying the present ones is just nonsense.
THE best bang for your buck in the high end sports car market these days.. hell, they have to comare the z06 to cars twice the price just to make it fair... a lot of the middle generations were not so hot, but saying the present ones is just nonsense.
03-29-2010, 01:05 PM
#149
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You seem to miss my point entirely in regards to the Kia. This was paper racing so to speak, done only from maunfacturer website data on each vehicle; the comparison was made solely to illustrate the point that Scion, and the tC in particular, has pretty much remained static, while the competition, even the lowly Kia, has stepped it up almost to where the tC is. I like Scion, but I'm not going to be blindly devoted, as another poster pointed out earlier, that's what sunk GM.
To JDMJim, as for the 1gen not being too small, ever try to take three business associates to the airport with each having a checked bag and laptop? They WILL not fit, the xB's cargo space is tiny. Tried it and ended up going up in the coworkers Element. One of my xB's has been modded so space is no longer an issue, most recently it had an engine hoist, tC motor and trans fit no problem, of course no passengers either with just one seat
.
Last edited by vettereddie; 03-29-2010 at 01:13 PM.
03-29-2010, 05:08 PM
#151
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that's okay. i can't carry anything in my xB1(airsuspension in the hatch). but i can take alot of luggage in my xD for three people. but i'm not sure who is out there drag racing xB's. i get going just fine in my xB. how fast do you need to go? speed limits are 55-65 anyway.
03-29-2010, 07:26 PM
#153
to answer some of the questions, you're not gonna get much more for the cars in terms of value. the idea of pure pricing is keeping it below $20,000, which, by what i've heard, is basically the cost of the 2011 tC.
for those saying the iQ is too much over $12 K, remember this... the fortwo goes for over $16 K new. and has less.
and as far as the 2.5 L on the 2011 tC and xB, it has been confirmed.
everyone chill out.
for those saying the iQ is too much over $12 K, remember this... the fortwo goes for over $16 K new. and has less.
and as far as the 2.5 L on the 2011 tC and xB, it has been confirmed.
everyone chill out.
03-29-2010, 09:45 PM
#155
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Location: S. Florida
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The refresh on the outside of the xB is just a little over the line to strange looking. The rear reflectors are cut n paste from the corolla. Just not appealing.
I didn't get excited about the xB2 until I saw the RS 5. I almost traded in my RS 1. Then Scion went lame with the RS 6 and the RS 7. The RS should be over the top like the RS 1, RS 3, and RS 5 were.
They are great cars with lots of standard features, it just seems like they are afraid to take chances anymore.
I didn't get excited about the xB2 until I saw the RS 5. I almost traded in my RS 1. Then Scion went lame with the RS 6 and the RS 7. The RS should be over the top like the RS 1, RS 3, and RS 5 were.
They are great cars with lots of standard features, it just seems like they are afraid to take chances anymore.
03-30-2010, 04:56 PM
#156
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describe over the top. RS7 comes with a bodykit and center exit exhaust with that flaky color. not saying i'm a fan of that. RS5 bright gold with a bodykit. RS1 was just orange which is an OE color on the JDM bB. thats not over the top. the RS are just colors for the most part. the RS4 on the other hand was over the top. I like it but would never buy it otherwise I'd never drive it for fear of wrecking the beautiful finish.
03-30-2010, 05:57 PM
#157
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Scikotics
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Well, the fourtwo is designed by Mercedes-Benz, and sold botique-style, usually next to the Porsche, BMW and Mini dealerships. In Canada, it's even sold direct through the Mercedes dealership. Though similar in size, they aren't in the same market, so price comparison would be like comparing a Corolla to a C300. If there was an iQ-based Lexus with all the luxury goodies, I'd see your point.
03-30-2010, 09:34 PM
#158
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Location: S. Florida
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over the top should be above and beyond what you can get at the dealership and somethings you can't get aftermarket yourself.
RS 1 is a JDM color - but it was never used on any Toyota model in the US. It also had color matched strut tie bar, orange LED interior lights and a cool billet grill.
RS 3 had Alpine DVD headrests, unique grille and awesome color - again never used on a Toyota model in the US
RS 4 - had a unique color which everyone complained about trying to match after a wreck.
RS 5 - was the great because it had body kit and the color matched dash and again a color not used on any Toyota model in the US!
RS 7 - Is exciting from the outside - body kit and a neat color that few folks remember was on previous Toyota model. But that was it. No tie bars, no LEDs, no DVDs, nothing else to get you excited about getting a limited model.
RS should be more than paint and fabric.
RS 1 is a JDM color - but it was never used on any Toyota model in the US. It also had color matched strut tie bar, orange LED interior lights and a cool billet grill.
RS 3 had Alpine DVD headrests, unique grille and awesome color - again never used on a Toyota model in the US
RS 4 - had a unique color which everyone complained about trying to match after a wreck.
RS 5 - was the great because it had body kit and the color matched dash and again a color not used on any Toyota model in the US!
RS 7 - Is exciting from the outside - body kit and a neat color that few folks remember was on previous Toyota model. But that was it. No tie bars, no LEDs, no DVDs, nothing else to get you excited about getting a limited model.
RS should be more than paint and fabric.
Last edited by Pauly-FL; 03-30-2010 at 09:39 PM. Reason: spelling
